Well Water?

[Steve175]

I have had a low-grade but frustratingly persistent algae problem despite sequentially adding all of the usual suspects (very oversized skimmer, large refug, large GFO reactor, new bulbs, heterogeneous CUC, and Vodka dosing; was considering Bio-Pellets but experience seems to be anything but uniform and Vodka really did nothing useful for my tank). This algae has limited coralline growth on my LR (although I am frequently scraping it off the glass).

 

Despite a 5 stage RODI w/ a booster pump, I have been suspect of my water. At times, I have tested my fresh SW mix and have found measurable nitrates (0.2) despite only 001 TDS and new filters. As my large system requires 6G per day of RODI for evaporative losses, I think that low-grade nitrates in the water may be of particular issue for me. Am now thinking that I may need to filter water into larger intermediate tank and then use a 2nd RODI system (Spectrapure has one that will give 1:1 product).

 

Anyone in the SPS world using well water? Am I being too neurotic? Any other ideas?

 

TIA, Steve.

[DaveS]

I'm on well and have grown SPS without problems. My well water is very acidic and I had persistently low pH in the tank but other than that, no problems. Once I got my neutralizer working again my pH problems went away.

 

Where are you located? That may help others in your area on well provide their experience.

[Coral Hind]

What kind of algae is causing you the problems? Any photos?

How long has the tank been setup?

What salt mix are you using?

 

 

 

[Mountaineer]

The problem with well water is that you really don't know what's in there unless you test for it. Most people for instance don't know that fluoride naturally occurs in many wells and in fact this is how it was discovered to have the benefit of preventing dental decay when found in a town with high fluoride levels and low levels of dental disease. I'm not saying that fluoride is good or bad for a reef tank, just pointing out that things can be "natural" to a well and you may be unaware of this.

[ctenophore]

What kind of algae is causing you the problems? Any photos?

Along this line of questioning, what types of clean up critters do you have? How many and what type of tangs?

[Steve175]

I'm on well and have grown SPS without problems. My well water is very acidic and I had persistently low pH in the tank but other than that, no problems. Once I got my neutralizer working again my pH problems went away.

 

Where are you located? That may help others in your area on well provide their experience.

 

Might explain my lower pH (better w/ kalk and 2-part). I live in Howard County, MD (West Friendship, near Columbia; more deer than people).

[Steve175]

What kind of algae is causing you the problems? Any photos?

How long has the tank been setup?

What salt mix are you using?

 

Most hair algae w/ a bit of cyano (again, not major, but enough to inhibit corraline growth on LR). Will try to get organized w/ pictures. Tank has been up 18months. Use 90% Reef Crystals (unless IO on major sale). My main issue: this tank should have no algae: 300G refug on a 220G w/ an incredibly oversized skimmer, DSB in both display and refug, frequent large-volume water changes, and careful feeding. Similar husbandry in Houston w/ no issues.

[Steve175]

The problem with well water is that you really don't know what's in there unless you test for it. Most people for instance don't know that fluoride naturally occurs in many wells and in fact this is how it was discovered to have the benefit of preventing dental decay when found in a town with high fluoride levels and low levels of dental disease. I'm not saying that fluoride is good or bad for a reef tank, just pointing out that things can be "natural" to a well and you may be unaware of this.

 

Am realizing both this and the fact that I probably should get periodic testing to protect my kids and dog in addition to my SPS. This well water think is new to me. Advice?

[Steve175]

Along this line of questioning, what types of clean up critters do you have? How many and what type of tangs?

 

Thanks for the interest/help. Sorry for the multiple posts (couldn't get the multiquote function to work and too late not to forget some of the questions). Have a large (~ 8") powder blue who lords over a smaller yellow and a purple (both are well owing primarily to intricate PVC supported rock work that the powder can't negotiate as well). Lot of inverts from multiple sources: emerald crabs, turbos, asterinia/various snails, multiple urchins. Have a liveaquaria order coming this week w/ 2 sea hares as well as several more emeralds and turbos. Any other ideas and, again, thanks to you all.

 

Steve

[gmubeach]

queen conch will get rid of your cyno? what presure is your pump running from ground to tap... the osmiss machine needs a certain value or won't work proprly... city water is on a constant flow most of the time? I've heard of people with well water having problems either too high on the flow or two low.... wouldn't even know where to begin or how to test!

[flowerseller]

UV?

 

 

If you are ending with0.01 tds water, it becomes the same as non well water tds of 0.01.

As crazy as this may sound, a 300g refuge could become part of the problem than more of a solution.

Depending on the flow thru, you might be creating more organics than the main system can actually handle in conjunction with the fuge.

Are the bulbs over the fuge also in good par/color temp shape?

[Mountaineer]

Am realizing both this and the fact that I probably should get periodic testing to protect my kids and dog in addition to my SPS. This well water think is new to me. Advice?

 

I wouldn't freak out over the kids or dog at least in regards to the fluoride. What you don't want to do is have a pediatrician or dentist prescribe additional fluoride supplements on the assumption that you don't already have it in the well water. What you have may very well be adequate.

 

...back on topic with the aquarium, I would just use RO/DI water and not have to worry.

[Steve175]

Not sure that I agree on multiple fronts: if the tds is real w/ 0.01, a ppm of lead would be very different than a 0.01 of carbon: all tds are not created equal. I have a new tds on the way for confirmation.

 

How, possibly, could a non-fed 300f refuge possibly add organics to the system without defying Newtonian physics? To boot, the anaerobic DSB in it should further ensure that it is a net positive w/ respect to nitrification. To answer questions: 1) flow to refuge is a dedicated sequence tarpon (~ 1500gph); and 2) light over refug is a 400W DE 20K MH (2 months old; reverse lit from Neptune apex).

 

UV?

 

 

If you are ending with0.01 tds water, it becomes the same as non well water tds of 0.01.

As crazy as this may sound, a 300g refuge could become part of the problem than more of a solution.

Depending on the flow thru, you might be creating more organics than the main system can actually handle in conjunction with the fuge.

Are the bulbs over the fuge also in good par/color temp shape?

[Steve175]

Sorry: missed your original question: I am not using UV. Have never had any health issues w/ fish and water is crystal clear. Does UV help w/ low-grade nuisance algae?

[ctenophore]

How, possibly, could a non-fed 300f refuge possibly add organics to the system without defying Newtonian physics? To boot, the anaerobic DSB in it should further ensure that it is a net positive w/ respect to nitrification. To answer questions: 1) flow to refuge is a dedicated sequence tarpon (~ 1500gph); and 2) light over refug is a 400W DE 20K MH (2 months old; reverse lit from Neptune apex).

The majority of an organic molecule is carbon, oxygen, and hydrogen. All of those are available in abundance to any primary producer like algae or bacteria that are given even a trace of nitrogen or phosphorus. So your fuge is very capable of creating organics from CO2 dissolved in the water.

 

I'm also not convinced that a deep sand bed automatically equals denitrification. I have kept 2-gallon buckets filled to the top with mixed size sand for over a year now in my quarantine tanks in an effort to keep nitrates down. These are the tanks I am now testing the PCL biopellets on. They most certainly are not low nitrate despite the 8" deep bucket of sand that has been established for over a year.

 

I think the real answer to nutrient (therefore, algae) control in reef tanks is in tight nutrient cycling. This means there is always a desirable mouth available to uptake anything free in the water before it has a chance to help something undesirable. A thriving microfauna population, lots of coral biomass (coral competes with various algae for free nutrients), herbivores to crop undesirable algae, etc. This gets back to why I am so interested in biopellets and bacteria cultures. The pellets allow bacteria at the very base of the food chain to thrive and very efficiently cycle nutrients from the water and out via skimmer. They outcompete, or at least compete well with, other microalgae since they have the unlimited carbon source on which to grow. Getting the pellets established with the probiotic cultures ahead of time seems to be necessary vs. simply tossing in some pellets and hoping for the best. I also think the cultures help colonize rock and other surfaces in the tank, outcompeting algae and cyanobacteria for nutrients and space.

 

Sorry: missed your original question: I am not using UV. Have never had any health issues w/ fish and water is crystal clear. Does UV help w/ low-grade nuisance algae?

It will help to some extent.

[Dragon Eye]

light over refug is a 400W DE 20K MH (2 months old; reverse lit from Neptune apex).

 

 

Why do you need a 20k MH for your fuge? What are you trying to grow in there?

 

Have you disturbed the sand bed recently?

Edited July 8, 2010 by Dragon Eye

[flowerseller]

I asked about UV because I've found my system clears up bacteria causing algaes (blacks, browns, reds so forth) with a well maintained UV and it can help kill floating algaes in the water dependant upon the flow thru the UV.

 

As far as your fuge and the light over it, lower color temp full spectrum bulbs are better suited than higher color temp bulbs. 65k full spectrum lamp is much more desirable than 20k.

To slow a flow thru can allow decaying, yes you have some, to buld up and be released into the rest of the system causing you a headache. Sometimes you have decide what you want to accomplish with the fuge, nutrient export or simply a place for pods to populate and provide live food tot he main display. Both is possible but you need a better flow. At lights out, you can actually choke out some of your algaes if the flow is too slow in replacing the oxygen that is depleted. Plus, just slow flow thru anything with organics in it allows it to build up and then flow into your tank.

 

DSB does not always eqaul 0 nitrates. From my experiences over the years, to enjoy some success, you must still have a strong flow over the DSB to realize some benifits. Flow is often better if right over the bed and allowed to rise up from there and out to the main water reservoir. This helps pull some water from deep within the sand and not just over top of it thus exchanging some of the water deep in the sand bed. This is where the benefit comes from in a nut shell.