Copepods, rotifers and phytoplankton

[Chad]

I have been playing with the idea of raising seahorses recently (played with it before with mixed success, but I feel my discipline and knowledge is much better on these days), anyone locally raising this stuff?

 

If so, what species and are you having success?

 

I have Tigriopus californicous and Arctica tonsa pretty much down and run a semi-continuous culture of one of them most of time (T. californicus at the moment).

 

And how about phytoplankton, anyone growing it? And what?

 

I can grow it, but I dont like to... I generally buy it and have a repeating order of phycapure... If anyone is culturing T. iso, though, Id be willing to buy it directly from you!

[dtfleming]

What kind of seahorse are you planning on keeping? Most will east mysis or brine shrimp. If you get CB they will prob eat frozen. I just setup a 6gal for DSH and dwarf pipes.

[dtfleming]

Oops, didnt see were you said you are going to raise them. My bad.

[Chad]

I have kept erectus and reidi, currently I have four erectus that are happy, and healthy *knocks on wood somewhere... All are trained to eat anything that comes out of a turkey baster and actively hunt all day long. Although I normally just feed beta glucan enriched mysis. Have you tried raising copepods for the DSH? Or are you just sticking to BBS?

[dtfleming]

I've raised copepods before for pipefish that I had. I plan on mixing up their diet. bbs enriched, copepods, mysis as they get bigger.

[ScooterTDI]

I wouldn't bother with any of that. For erectus, all you really need is a big can of artemia cysts and some decent enrichment. fuscus are a little easier than erectus, but I would easily get 80-90% survival without rots or copepods. In my opinion, survival rates for horses like fuscus or erectus typically relate more to husbandry than they do to diet, but adding in copepods never hurts. I don't think the rots are going to help at all though.

 

If you get an A. tonsa culture going again, I'd be interested in getting a starter from you. I am planning on moving to some more difficult species soon and will probably have to resort to copepods to get decent survival.

 

Scott

 

 

[ctenophore]

I'd love to start an A. tonsa culture too. Can you detail your setup?

 

Welcome to WAMAS, by the way

[zygote2k]

I'd be interested in growing any or all of these critters. Can anyone show me first hand what to do and how to set it up?

[dtfleming]

I'd be interested in growing any or all of these critters. Can anyone show me first hand what to do and how to set it up?

 

 

Florida Aqua Farms.com they have a plankton culture manual, pretty good book on culturing this. I would start with phyto. You need air pump, tubing, containers, light, salt mix and starter culture of Nanno. Oh and f2 algae grow, This can be ordered as a kit from FAF. Talkingreef.com has a good video on how to setup and culture phytoplankton.

 

Most people grow rots in a bucket with a sponge filter, heater and light. Rots feed on the greenwater. Try to culture two different ones in case one crashes.

 

Copepods need just a container or tank. sponge filter, depending on the type of copepod heater or not. You can feed them phyto or flake food.

 

Florida Aqua Farms and Reef nutrition have starter cultures and live ones that you could use.

[ctenophore]

From what I have read, Acartia tonsa are not as simple to grow. They are pelagic copepods and will only reproduce reliably and have a useful nutritional profile on quality live phyto, I believe T. iso is the most common or best. These are the copepods that are great for many types of fish larvae, along with others of various sizes.

 

If someone in WAMAS wants to take up T. iso and A. tonsa production, that would go a long way to furthering fish breeding in this area. See the thread about fish breeding in the propagation & breeding forum. I'd love to do it, but I simply have too much going on with the rest of my operation to handle it right now.

 

Here is an excellent site detailing a moderate scale A. tonsa production system. Even scaling this down to a few basement tubs with some clever automation systems would provide enough food to supply many local breeders.

[dtfleming]

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/feb2003/breeder2.htm

 

Good article with pictures on a simple copepod culture. This is basically what I had setup before.

[TonyInVa]

Mine ate frozen mysis

 

 

 

 

[Chad]

Sorry I havent gotten back, it was a CRAZY busy week at work, Im still reeling a bit, but coming back to reality I really wish tomorrow wasnt Monday!!

 

I wouldn't bother with any of that. For erectus, all you really need is a big can of artemia cysts and some decent enrichment. fuscus are a little easier than erectus, but I would easily get 80-90% survival without rots or copepods. In my opinion, survival rates for horses like fuscus or erectus typically relate more to husbandry than they do to diet, but adding in copepods never hurts. I don't think the rots are going to help at all though.

 

If you get an A. tonsa culture going again, I'd be interested in getting a starter from you. I am planning on moving to some more difficult species soon and will probably have to resort to copepods to get decent survival.

 

Scott

 

I agree that rots are not very useful for growing seahorse raising... I was using it more as a talking point (the small stuff), it seems that folks that have done any of this stuff tend to have done a bunch of it. I have read a lot about nutritional profile of copepods vs. bbs and decided that trying a calanoid pod would be better even if it is more difficult to do. Thats what got me experimenting with setups and seeing what I could get going.

 

I'd love to start an A. tonsa culture too. Can you detail your setup?

 

Welcome to WAMAS, by the way

 

Thanks, the welcome that everyone gives here is great!!

 

I dont have an A. tonsa culture going at the moment and my method is the same as the one recommended by Luis A M at marinebreeder.org.

 

Basically I use three 5 gallon containers (water bottles with tops cut off), each has two nested strainers, the inner is 200 microns and the smaller is 53 microns. I also have 4 1 gallon containers. I have an air pump with a couple of inline filters and a line running to each of the containers. Temperature is whatever room temp is (usually low 70s).

 

Growing phase every other day for 8 days start a culture in one of the 1 gallon containers (sg 1.010 and 20% phyto mixture, I use phycapure because it has several different (7) types of phyto and I have had good success with it). Each 1 gallon container is allowed to grow for two days before being added to a 5 gallon container, after 8 days the first container is started again. After two days of growth, I split half the contents of the 1 gallon container into each of two of the 5 gallon buckets.

 

Every other day I strain each of the 5 gallon cultures through the 200 and 53 micron filter into the third 5 gallon container. Anything that makes it through the 200, but not the 53 (eggs and naups) is added to the empty 1 gallon container, while the adults are left in the 5 gallon container. I discard about a half a gallon of water during this process and replace it with fresh phyto.

 

To collect eggs use a 1 liter graduated cylinder (start once a month collecting eggs for a period of 1 week or so), empty the contents of the 53 micron screen into the cylinder and let it settle (eggs will be on bottom) and siphon the top off. Eggs can be refridgerated.

 

Production is good for 4-6 weeks or so before it starts falling and the culture needs to be restarted.

 

This method works pretty well (at least it did for me in my about 3 month trial just to see if I could do it...)

 

 

I'd be interested in growing any or all of these critters. Can anyone show me first hand what to do and how to set it up?

 

 

From what I have read, Acartia tonsa are not as simple to grow. They are pelagic copepods and will only reproduce reliably and have a useful nutritional profile on quality live phyto, I believe T. iso is the most common or best. These are the copepods that are great for many types of fish larvae, along with others of various sizes.

 

If someone in WAMAS wants to take up T. iso and A. tonsa production, that would go a long way to furthering fish breeding in this area. See the thread about fish breeding in the propagation & breeding forum. I'd love to do it, but I simply have too much going on with the rest of my operation to handle it right now.

 

Here is an excellent site detailing a moderate scale A. tonsa production system. Even scaling this down to a few basement tubs with some clever automation systems would provide enough food to supply many local breeders.

 

In addition to The Plankton Culture Manual (which is excellent), here is an online version of much of the same (and slightly different) info (but this one is free

http://www.fao.org/DOCREP/003/W3732E/w3732e00.htm#Contents

 

Here is another document to peruse through (its not A. tonsa, but it is a similar sized calanoid) http://www.aims.gov.au/pages/research/hatchery-feeds/pdf/copepod-culture-manual.pdf

 

I may be interested in taking a larger scale production of T. iso or A. tonsa... (just need to talk my live in girlfriend into having the extra fish stuff around... hehe, Ill get back to you guys about that one...

 

I mentioned before that I usually have a culture of something going on... I do it because that way she doesnt 'notice' it hehe

 

Anyway...

[dtfleming]

Sorry I havent gotten back, it was a CRAZY busy week at work, Im still reeling a bit, but coming back to reality I really wish tomorrow wasnt Monday!!

 

 

 

I agree that rots are not very useful for growing seahorse raising... I was using it more as a talking point (the small stuff), it seems that folks that have done any of this stuff tend to have done a bunch of it. I have read a lot about nutritional profile of copepods vs. bbs and decided that trying a calanoid pod would be better even if it is more difficult to do. Thats what got me experimenting with setups and seeing what I could get going.

 

 

 

Thanks, the welcome that everyone gives here is great!!

 

I dont have an A. tonsa culture going at the moment and my method is the same as the one recommended by Luis A M at marinebreeder.org.

 

Basically I use three 5 gallon containers (water bottles with tops cut off), each has two nested strainers, the inner is 200 microns and the smaller is 53 microns. I also have 4 1 gallon containers. I have an air pump with a couple of inline filters and a line running to each of the containers. Temperature is whatever room temp is (usually low 70s).

 

Growing phase every other day for 8 days start a culture in one of the 1 gallon containers (sg 1.010 and 20% phyto mixture, I use phycapure because it has several different (7) types of phyto and I have had good success with it). Each 1 gallon container is allowed to grow for two days before being added to a 5 gallon container, after 8 days the first container is started again. After two days of growth, I split half the contents of the 1 gallon container into each of two of the 5 gallon buckets.

 

Every other day I strain each of the 5 gallon cultures through the 200 and 53 micron filter into the third 5 gallon container. Anything that makes it through the 200, but not the 53 (eggs and naups) is added to the empty 1 gallon container, while the adults are left in the 5 gallon container. I discard about a half a gallon of water during this process and replace it with fresh phyto.

 

To collect eggs use a 1 liter graduated cylinder (start once a month collecting eggs for a period of 1 week or so), empty the contents of the 53 micron screen into the cylinder and let it settle (eggs will be on bottom) and siphon the top off. Eggs can be refridgerated.

 

Production is good for 4-6 weeks or so before it starts falling and the culture needs to be restarted.

 

This method works pretty well (at least it did for me in my about 3 month trial just to see if I could do it...)

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

In addition to The Plankton Culture Manual (which is excellent), here is an online version of much of the same (and slightly different) info (but this one is free

http://www.fao.org/DOCREP/003/W3732E/w3732e00.htm#Contents

 

Here is another document to peruse through (its not A. tonsa, but it is a similar sized calanoid) http://www.aims.gov.au/pages/research/hatchery-feeds/pdf/copepod-culture-manual.pdf

 

I may be interested in taking a larger scale production of T. iso or A. tonsa... (just need to talk my live in girlfriend into having the extra fish stuff around... hehe, Ill get back to you guys about that one...

 

I mentioned before that I usually have a culture of something going on... I do it because that way she doesnt 'notice' it hehe

 

Anyway...

 

 

Just read through both of those....

[ScooterTDI]

I agree that rots are not very useful for growing seahorse raising... I was using it more as a talking point (the small stuff), it seems that folks that have done any of this stuff tend to have done a bunch of it. I have read a lot about nutritional profile of copepods vs. bbs and decided that trying a calanoid pod would be better even if it is more difficult to do. Thats what got me experimenting with setups and seeing what I could get going.

 

Yea, copepods are great, but I think you'll have a difficult time supplying them in the quantities necessary to raise a reasonable size batch of erectus if you intend on making that the primary diet. I would have to go dig up the journal article, but from what I have read, it seems that a base diet of mainly artemia with a comparably minor supplimentation of calanoids is very nearly as good as a diet of solely calanoids.

 

Again, I think you'll find that you can achieve enough success with artemia alone that you may have a little bit of a difficult time finding homes for all the young. I was lucky that fuscus were not as readily available and somewhat in demand. It made it very easy to wholesale to a company that could then sell them at retail. It might be a little more difficult with erectus because there are many more reputable breeders of erectus. Selling retail isn't much fun. You'll probably have a hard time finding enough buyers locally, so it will mean a lot of trips to the FedEx store.

 

It has been awhile since I have been over on MOFIB, but I do remember that Luis had a "maintainance" culture protocol in which the goal was just to keep a culture going, but not necessarily producing a large amount to be harvested. Is this the maintainance protocol or does this produce enough to yield a significant harvest? You may what to look into culturing Rhodomonas (sp?) lens. Lots of journal articles seem to indicate that A. tonsa really thrives on that particular algae do to its large cell size and really good nutritional profile. I've heard that it is one of the more difficult algaes to culture, though. From what I have heard, T. iso cell size is on the lower limit of what A. tonsa will consume and while it will sustain A. tonsa, the culture won't really thrive on it.

 

Scott

[dtfleming]

Scooter, thats what I keep finding for A tonsa is the T Iso or the Rhon. While most were separating the adult and eggs like Chad was doing.

[dtfleming]

So you guys made me go searching. I knew that I saw some where about a different algae feed for A tonsa. A German breeder on marinebreeder used a dinoflaggette Oxyrrhis marina to feed A tonsa with good results.

 

So in a couple of weeks Im going to setup some cultures again.

[Chad]

Yea, copepods are great, but I think you'll have a difficult time supplying them in the quantities necessary to raise a reasonable size batch of erectus if you intend on making that the primary diet. I would have to go dig up the journal article, but from what I have read, it seems that a base diet of mainly artemia with a comparably minor supplimentation of calanoids is very nearly as good as a diet of solely calanoids.

 

Again, I think you'll find that you can achieve enough success with artemia alone that you may have a little bit of a difficult time finding homes for all the young. I was lucky that fuscus were not as readily available and somewhat in demand. It made it very easy to wholesale to a company that could then sell them at retail. It might be a little more difficult with erectus because there are many more reputable breeders of erectus. Selling retail isn't much fun. You'll probably have a hard time finding enough buyers locally, so it will mean a lot of trips to the FedEx store.

 

It has been awhile since I have been over on MOFIB, but I do remember that Luis had a "maintainance" culture protocol in which the goal was just to keep a culture going, but not necessarily producing a large amount to be harvested. Is this the maintainance protocol or does this produce enough to yield a significant harvest? You may what to look into culturing Rhodomonas (sp?) lens. Lots of journal articles seem to indicate that A. tonsa really thrives on that particular algae do to its large cell size and really good nutritional profile. I've heard that it is one of the more difficult algaes to culture, though. From what I have heard, T. iso cell size is on the lower limit of what A. tonsa will consume and while it will sustain A. tonsa, the culture won't really thrive on it.

 

Scott

 

You are probably right about being able to maintain high enough quantities to not need to supplement with bbs... At least not with 'small' containers, I think somewhere in my searching I found 75 gallon tanks as the recommendation, although I think that was for 'meso-scale' production. My looking at raising seahorses is more educational for my own benefit than anything else... I dont really have ambitions to do much more than that If there is a local need/desire for pods and phyto though, I may be interested in filling that need

 

Honestly, Im not sure whether I was using the 'maintenance' or 'production' protocol... It seemes that it could easily be used for either (either separate the eggs for storage and just add naups back or add the eggs back and maups back to the main culture). I would think that pretty large cultures could be established using that method. It produced really well, but was a bit expensive for me to run because I wasnt growing the phyto for it (as much as I like phycopure, its by no means the cheapest phyto mixture).

 

So you guys made me go searching. I knew that I saw some where about a different algae feed for A tonsa. A German breeder on marinebreeder used a dinoflaggette Oxyrrhis marina to feed A tonsa with good results.

 

So in a couple of weeks Im going to setup some cultures again.

 

I have also read about the rhodomonas and a dinoflagellate being used... probably why I had good luck with phycopure, which has T. iso, rhodomonas and some others that fill that gap (including a dinoflagellate).

[ScooterTDI]

I've been looking into setting up a system for A. tonsa with filtration, automatic seperation of adults/naups, and automated phyto feeding. Hopefully, this would reduce the amount of day-to-day work put into food production which always seems to be the most tedious part. The design I am considering involves a ~50g plastic barrel with a sump. The standpipe would be placed in the middle of the barrel and protected by a ~50 um screen to prevent naups from draining. A second 100-250um screen tube maybe 6-8" in diameter and would surround the standpipe and act as a divider of adults and naups. Hopefully, the naups would be flushed to the inside of this screened area by the return plumbing from the sump that feeds the area outside the seperation screening, but the adults would remain outside the screening. The flow rate through the system would be very low and the sump would contain a wet/dry and a protein skimmer. A peristaltic pump would periodic add phyto from a nearby phyto culture.

 

Thats the plan right now anyway...

 

Scott

 

 

[Chad]

Scott,

 

I like the your idea of a more automatic setup, the day to day grind is what keeps the average aquarium keeper from attempting this stuff...

 

It seems like you are going more full scale, so I have a couple of thoughts for you:

 

How will you separate the growing naups from the more inner area when the are ready to be placed with the adults?

 

How will you collect eggs from the system?

 

Im not sure if you are space limited or not, but you could accomplish a similar effect by using four growout tanks connected to a main system via screened air lifters (200 um on the air lifter going in and 50 um on the air lifter going out), you could run the air lifters in each growout tank for 2-3 days before switching to the next growout tank, running each in succession, when you repeat the contents of the growout tank can be added to the main culture and the cycle can be restarted before harvesting. Eggs could be periodically collected by siphoning the contents of the newest growout tank into a tall and skinny container and allowing it to settle. Its manual, but would only need to be done monthly or so...

 

Im not sure if you have seen this or not, but I am thinking similar to this mysis growout system: http://www.mblaquaculture.com/assets/docs/MBL_AQ_Mysid_Generator.pdf

[ctenophore]

I've been thinking along these lines too, except I want to tie mine into my auto water changer. Right now I have a dual head masterflex that pulls water from my saltwater reservoir to system, and system water to drain. I was planning to simply pass the new saltwater through a rotifer barrel (with a phyto doser as well) but now it seems like tonsa production may be more worthwhile. With the influx of new saltwater coming in 24/7, cleaning and maintenance should be reduced. No need for a recirc system, just let the effluent dump into my main system. I'm not concerned about nutrients, the water change is more for trace element management and unskimmable organics removal.

 

I wonder if the need to restart the culture from collected eggs would be as significant with the continuous clean saltwater input?

[dtfleming]

Joe Thompson on copepodgeek. has a continuous drip of phyto and rots into his copepod cultures using enternal pump I believe this has helped his A. tonsa production and he also separates the adults and eggs.

[ScooterTDI]

Scott,

 

I like the your idea of a more automatic setup, the day to day grind is what keeps the average aquarium keeper from attempting this stuff...

 

It seems like you are going more full scale, so I have a couple of thoughts for you:

 

How will you separate the growing naups from the more inner area when the are ready to be placed with the adults?

 

How will you collect eggs from the system?

 

Im not sure if you are space limited or not, but you could accomplish a similar effect by using four growout tanks connected to a main system via screened air lifters (200 um on the air lifter going in and 50 um on the air lifter going out), you could run the air lifters in each growout tank for 2-3 days before switching to the next growout tank, running each in succession, when you repeat the contents of the growout tank can be added to the main culture and the cycle can be restarted before harvesting. Eggs could be periodically collected by siphoning the contents of the newest growout tank into a tall and skinny container and allowing it to settle. Its manual, but would only need to be done monthly or so...

 

Im not sure if you have seen this or not, but I am thinking similar to this mysis growout system: http://www.mblaquacu...d_Generator.pdf

 

In my case, I think I am going to need to go pretty much full scale in order to get any survival. My plan would be to have a drain from the inner "naup" area from which naups would be strained/concentrated. I'd pass the "naup" water first through a 100 -250 um mesh to catch any larger juveniles or young adults. Those would then be added back into the "adult" area. Hopefully, this would keep adult populations low in the "naup" area and give a constant supply of fresh breeding adults to the adult area.

 

You have a good point about the egg collection, that might be a pain. I like the principal of your idea, but with some slight modifications. How about a adult tank that has a cone bottom (found on places like the aquatic ecosystems website), with a drain at the bottom of the tank that is used to periodically collect the settled eggs. Just quickly open a valve and all the gunk and eggs that collect at the bottom are flushed into a container. The adult tank feeds a "naup" tank through screens as you describe. Grownout juveniles and adults are removed from the naup tank when naups are collected to feed the larva and these adults are placed back into the adult tank.

 

That mysid generator was was i was thinking about when considering this system.

 

Scott

 

 

[ScooterTDI]

I've been thinking along these lines too, except I want to tie mine into my auto water changer. Right now I have a dual head masterflex that pulls water from my saltwater reservoir to system, and system water to drain. I was planning to simply pass the new saltwater through a rotifer barrel (with a phyto doser as well) but now it seems like tonsa production may be more worthwhile. With the influx of new saltwater coming in 24/7, cleaning and maintenance should be reduced. No need for a recirc system, just let the effluent dump into my main system. I'm not concerned about nutrients, the water change is more for trace element management and unskimmable organics removal.

 

I wonder if the need to restart the culture from collected eggs would be as significant with the continuous clean saltwater input?

 

 

I have a feeling you may need to periodically restart because it seems that cultures always go bad no matter how careful you are.

 

I'm not sure if you are going to get the production quantity you want. I know you have a pretty large system, so you'd probably need a really huge culture vessel to supply significant quantities and an even larger phyto culture because algae like rhodomonas (sp?) typically are relatively low density (at least that what I've heard). Naup densities don't get anywhere near that of rots. In my case, I'd plan on have a copepod culture many times the size of the larval rearing vessel, so the naups would be concentrated significantly in the rearing vessel relative to that of the bulk culture vessel. You might want to calculate your desired density in the system you are feeding and see how large of a copepod culture you'd need to achieve that.

 

 

As Chad mentioned, you'll probably have to find a way to add juveniles/adults back into the adult population. You could screen the effluent of the naup area with a mesh that would retain some of the grownout juveniles/adults. These could then be periodically transferred back to the adult area.

 

Scott

[ctenophore]

I have a feeling you may need to periodically restart because it seems that cultures always go bad no matter how careful you are.

I figure as much; I am just hoping that the effort will be reduced with what is essentially a flow-thru (i.e., non-recirc) system with sterile seawater.

 

I'm not sure if you are going to get the production quantity you want. I know you have a pretty large system, so you'd probably need a really huge culture vessel to supply significant quantities and an even larger phyto culture because algae like rhodomonas (sp?) typically are relatively low density (at least that what I've heard). Naup densities don't get anywhere near that of rots. In my case, I'd plan on have a copepod culture many times the size of the larval rearing vessel, so the naups would be concentrated significantly in the rearing vessel relative to that of the bulk culture vessel. You might want to calculate your desired density in the system you are feeding and see how large of a copepod culture you'd need to achieve that.

Production qty isn't too important. I was planning on a 55g drum to grow the pods, and hopefully having enough to raise the occasional clown batch and maybe one day fry from some Cypho purpurescens. So two black round tubs max. The rest (if any) can just waste to the main system to feed corals. That is/was my plan using rotifers.

 

As for phyto culture, I have plenty of space and light, just need some clear tubes and install them on the north wall of my greenhouse. Free light and unused space.

 

As Chad mentioned, you'll probably have to find a way to add juveniles/adults back into the adult population. You could screen the effluent of the naup area with a mesh that would retain some of the grownout juveniles/adults. These could then be periodically transferred back to the adult area.

 

Scott

Why is it necessary to maintain separation of adults from naups? It seems that it would be easier to just take the shotgun approach and sieve out some adults (200um screen) or adults and naups (50um screen then 200um screen) depending on what stage fry need fed. The conical bottom is a good one for cleaning and collecting eggs (I wonder if I could thermoform the bottom of the barrel?)

 

I guess what I need to figure out is, what are the differences necessary for this system to grow tonsa instead of rotifers? Food source obviously. Water quality shouldn't be an issue. Density is an issue, but I believe 55g worth should be enough to cover my uses. It would certainly be far more rots than I would ever need (hence the wasting to feed corals).