bankyf January 22, 2010 Share January 22, 2010 I don't want to get into too much detail just yet, but I recently purchased some VERY expensive coral from an individual. The shipper did everything he was supposed to do, but the shipment was delayed in Memphis by Fedex last night and will not be delivered until tomorrow. The packaging is described as being very good with 40 hour heat packs, but 40 hours will be up early tomorrow morning and it is supposed to be in the 20's tonight. If this coral does not survive, who's problem is it. Fedex will accept no reponsibility, but from an ethical standpoint should the seller or buyer take the loss? I suppose I could dispute the paypal payment with the CC company, but I don't even know how they will view the situation and I hope it does not need to come to that. The seller and I have not discussed possible outcomes yet, but I am looking for opinions if it comes to that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
igozoom January 22, 2010 Share January 22, 2010 I would think the seller. I had a similar experience with premium aquatics, the shipment was delayed 2 days because the box was sopping wet from broken bags. Hopefully, he has more frags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bankyf January 22, 2010 Author Share January 22, 2010 I would think the seller. I had a similar experience with premium aquatics, the shipment was delayed 2 days because the box was sopping wet from broken bags. Hopefully, he has more frags. Pretty sure there won't be any more frags anytime soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDiver January 22, 2010 Share January 22, 2010 Its really not the sellers fault..I would take it up with the CC company..don't know bout others but Amex is pretty good about that kind of stuff.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coral Hind January 22, 2010 Share January 22, 2010 I do not feel it is the sellers fault that the shipment was delayed. Therefore they should not have to take the responsibility. To me it is a buyer's risk and judgement call to order any livestock during this time of year when temps are so cold outside and flights are prone to delays. Some risk assessment should be applied during this time of the year. During Winter I would buy locally or order from some place with at least a 7 or even better 14 day guarantee. I am sure everything will be fine if they did put a 40hr heat pack in. I had an "overnight" SPS order arrive after 72 hours, with a water temp of 58F in the bags, and everything survived. Acclimate slow and they should be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doughster4 January 22, 2010 Share January 22, 2010 Did the seller give you any kind of arrive live guarantee, either in emails or verbally? If not, it really is not his fault. Wait and see how things arrive. If there is a problem, approach it positively. He may meet you at least halfway on things. Taking a negative, accusatory approach or threatening to stop cc payments will probably get you NOWHERE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bankyf January 22, 2010 Author Share January 22, 2010 FWIW we both checked the weather forecast before making the decision to ship yesterday and winter weather was not an issue. They were delayed due to a thunderstorm in Memphis. I do not feel it is the sellers fault that the shipment was delayed. Therefore they should not have to take the responsibility. To me it is a buyer's risk and judgement call to order any livestock during this time of year when temps are so cold outside and flights are prone to delays. Some risk assessment should be applied during this time of the year. During Winter I would buy locally or order from some place with at least a 7 or even better 14 day guarantee. I am sure everything will be fine if they did put a 40hr heat pack in. I had an "overnight" SPS order arrive after 72 hours, with a water temp of 58F in the bags, and everything survived. Acclimate slow and they should be fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sikryd January 22, 2010 Share January 22, 2010 (edited) Did the seller give you any kind of arrive live guarantee, either in emails or verbally? If not, it really is not his fault. Wait and see how things arrive. If there is a problem, approach it positively. He may meet you at least halfway on things. Taking a negative, accusatory approach or threatening to stop cc payments will probably get you NOWHERE. +1 If there was a live arrival quarantee (which is pretty standard nowadays) then he should be able to ship new frags or work something out with you. Without that said or implied, then it is kind of on you guys to come to an understanding. I personally ship everything out healed nicely, with a live arrival guarantee. Meaning I will replace anything that is lost due to shipping problems. I also talk to most of people I sell/trade to, on the phone, so I can get a feel for who I am dealing with. This also helps in case things like this come up so you can just call to discuss it. The hardest thing to do is try and talk about stuff like this via email or pm's. I'd pm them and get their number, then try and give them a call when you receive the shipment tomorrow. That way they know exactly what is up with the shipment and how it looks right when it comes in. Then you can hopefully work something out together. +1 on getting shipments late and things still surviving. Bring the bags up to temp and don't let them heat up with them still sealed. Then acclimate slowly. Edited January 22, 2010 by Sikryd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnetic1 January 22, 2010 Share January 22, 2010 It's FedEx's fault. The seller SHOULD take out insurance for this stuff. At minimum he could file a claim for $100 of he didnt buy extra insurance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sikryd January 22, 2010 Share January 22, 2010 It's FedEx's fault. The seller SHOULD take out insurance for this stuff. At minimum he could file a claim for $100 of he didnt buy extra insurance. Fedex won't cover live animals - no shipper will actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k January 22, 2010 Share January 22, 2010 The seller can request that the package be insured at an extra cost. The buyer should be aware of that also. Maybe someone didn't request extra insurance... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flowerseller January 22, 2010 Share January 22, 2010 CC companies basiclly issue creidt in the merchants name. If there is a dispute on a CC transaction, it gets back charged to the merchants account. All credit card comanies do is take their transaction fee and discount points ( percent charged for priveledge to use their setlement in >72hrs) and chargebacks for problems come from the merchants pocket. THat's why 45% of my business is H/A who charge flowers and then receive a statement from us and pay monthy via check. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davelin315 January 22, 2010 Share January 22, 2010 I'd say that it's a loss... of course, you don't know what's going to get here when it arrives. I can't imagine that the seller is responsible unless they guaranteed live delivery (I've seen disclaimers stating that even with a guarantee merchants aren't responsible for shipping delays). That is awful that FedEx doesn't insure live animals. I honestly don't know who should take the loss - I waffle back and forth. Why should the seller take the loss when you were the one wanting it shipped? He could have sold it locally and not had to deal with shipping. On the other hand, why should you take the loss when you didn't get what you paid for (assuming worst case scenario on arrival)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Ward January 22, 2010 Share January 22, 2010 I think the buyer and seller should split the loss. It's no one's fault, things happen. I would hope the seller would offer up replacement frags and you pay shipping, if possible, if not, I would hope the seller (assuming it's a company) would offer up some replacement mini-colonies at cost and you cover the shipping. I think that would be a fair compromise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jnimtz January 22, 2010 Share January 22, 2010 According to FEDEX, the seller is responsible for ensuring the package gets to the buyer in good condition: From: http://fedex.com/us/services/terms/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Noobalicious January 22, 2010 Share January 22, 2010 According to FEDEX, the seller is responsible for ensuring the package gets to the buyer in good condition: From: http://fedex.com/us/services/terms/ There is a big difference between not having "proper" packaging and a delay of delivery....proper packaging gets negated if the shipping company sits on the package too long. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flowerseller January 22, 2010 Share January 22, 2010 Ultimately, the fish or corals take responsibility for the delays Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hypertech January 22, 2010 Share January 22, 2010 Unless you have agreed otherwise or the buyer has taken control of the shipping arrangements, I think it is on the seller to make delivery. If it doesn't arrive in good condition its on them to take the loss o replace the items. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coral Hind January 22, 2010 Share January 22, 2010 Bankyf, Well did the package arrive yet? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phisigs79 January 22, 2010 Share January 22, 2010 I hate to say it but its really up to the buyer for you to get the item but it can be argued both ways. If you want to meet in between he provides you with replacement frags and you pay for shipping. I dont like buying frags from hobbist and have them ship it for this perfect example. Both sides loose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Camaron January 22, 2010 Share January 22, 2010 (edited) from the shippers point of view, they really dont care at all, somtimes they make it on time sometimes they dont... from a buyers point of view you would at least want something to replace the loss, even if i had to send a bit extra for shipping. from a sellers point of view, it is a risk everyone takes, but i would certainly honor a replacement frag of something else if i didnt have another of the original purchased. ------------------- on another scenario, what happens if the buyer does not contact the seller within a few hours of the package arriving so there is no way to know if the corals were fine or not and the tries to pul one on you 10 hours later. Who is responsible then? (the buyer) Edited January 22, 2010 by El Camaron Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bankyf January 23, 2010 Author Share January 23, 2010 (edited) Package arrived, heat pack was still working, Coral is dead, I am out A LARGE AMOUNT OF MONEY. We will see how it plays out. Unfortunately this is not a replaceable frag at this time. Edited January 23, 2010 by bankyf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coral Hind January 23, 2010 Share January 23, 2010 So what type of frag was it? Maybe someone local has it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bankyf January 23, 2010 Author Share January 23, 2010 They might, if I had another $1000 + dollars to spend It was My Miami and 3 other chalices, of course the 3 others are doing just great. So what type of frag was it? Maybe someone local has it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bankyf January 23, 2010 Author Share January 23, 2010 It appears that the seller has no interest in working with me on this one. I never expected him to issue a full refund and there are no frags to replace it, but I was hoping for some sort of compromise. All I seem to be able to get is "Sorry for YOUR loss". At this point I don't even know if I was really even sent a My Miami frag. If he had offered something, anything, I would have felt better about this. Now I am just mad. I will sleep on it before I decide how to proceed. Anyone hav any more suggestions? They might, if I had another $1000 + dollars to spend It was My Miami and 3 other chalices, of course the 3 others are doing just great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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