Live food for anenomes?

[Sharkey18]

Does anyone feed their anenome live fish?

 

I gave my nem an ailing fish several months ago and it split the next day. The nem was quite large and ready to split anyhow but it made me start to wonder if they would benefit from live food in general.

 

Laura

[DaveS]

I'm not an expert but I don't think the fact that the fish was LIVE is what caused the nem to split. I have seen nems split more frequently (not necesserily the next day) from being fed nice meaty foods like whole fish. I've used silversides and small fish that you can get from the Asian grocery stores.

[Coral Hind]

I have fed my anemones with live foods before but I don't know if it is a real benefit over frozen. You could always setup an experiment and try it. Feed one live foods and one the same size frozen foods in the same tank and see which one grows faster.

[lhcorals]

Dont mean to jump to another subject. But here goes. We have a RBTA we got from Chris Tran about a year ago. It grew very quick, but has never split. We cloned it about 2 or 3 months ago and all the clones did very well. What have we done wrong to it to make it not split naturally.

[Coral Hind]

Dont mean to jump to another subject. But here goes. We have a RBTA we got from Chris Tran about a year ago. It grew very quick, but has never split. We cloned it about 2 or 3 months ago and all the clones did very well. What have we done wrong to it to make it not split naturally.

 

To answer your question, "Nothing at all".

 

Many people think they are doing something wrong because their BTA will not split after several years under their care. In fact it is not that they are doing anything wrong but they are actually doing it all just right.

 

From my experience and observations of fellow members tanks it seems a happy anemone rarely splits compared to one that is stressed in a tank with less then perfect or stable water. I remember an article back in 2002 before I cut the first BTA and it said only 20% of host anemones actually reproduce asexually in the wild. Of those types of anemones it is greatly more common for them to split in our tanks then in the wild.

Edited January 10, 2010 by Coral Hind

[lhcorals]

To answer your question, "Nothing at all".

 

Many people think they are doing something wrong because their BTA will not split after several years under their care. In fact it is not that they are doing anything wrong but they actually doing it all just right.

 

From my experience and observations of fellow members tanks it seems a happy anemone rarely splits compared to one that is stressed in a tank with less then perfect or stable water. I remember an article back in 2002 before I cut the first BTA and it said only 20% of host anemones actually reproduce asexually in the wild. Of those types of anemones it is greatly more common for them to split in our tanks then in the wild.

 

 

Thanks for the info.

[reefhunter]

haha dont u love when you think you are screwing up but you are really doing well? lol

[davelin315]

haha dont u love when you think you are screwing up but you are really doing well? lol

My situation is usually the opposite... think I'm doing well and then BAM!

[Sikryd]

I feed mine, as do my clowns, and it hasn't split yet. It is HUGE though.

 

I agree, I think they just grow bigger when they are happy. When they get too big, or are unhappy then they split, or take the dreaded walk-about.

[Sharkey18]

Mine splits about every six months and I would argue that it seems extraordinarily "happy". Or at least as happy as one can seem given the fact I can't communicate with it.

 

It has excellent color, doesn't wander, grows, becomes huge before splitting, eats like a pig and hosts a pair of clowns.

I think reproduction of any kind is probably a sign of a healthy animal, since unhealthy animals usually don't put energy into reproduction.

 

I will definitely read more...

 

Laura

[dshnarw]

unhealthy animals usually don't put energy into reproduction.

 

 

poor assumption. asexual reproduction is often produced under stressed conditions in anemones and corallimorphs as a means of survival. hence why BTAs and other anemones often split after being moved to another tank or when shipped from the wild. one of the easiest ways we found to split the small morph of mini carpets was to toss them in skimmate for a short period of time. you can't always assume health because of reproduction.

[Sharkey18]

Actually, it is not a poor assumption, and in general you can assume health because of reproduction. A review of the research of Entacmaea quadricolor, the specific type of anemone I was referring to finds LOTS of references to exactly what you and Coral Hind have said: that splitting is a sign of stress or other problems. Mostly repeated on other boards. Unfortunately this seems to be a widely held view that does not seem to be backed up by any research that I could find. Is it possible that it is a sort of anemone urban myth?

 

I am not saying that stress may not be one factor in stimulating asexual reproduction, I am just saying that the corollary "if your anemone IS splitting it is a sign of stress and that if it isn't splitting it is happy" is not necessarily true. It has even been suggested that there may be two types of Entacmaea quadricolor, one that is primarily clonal and one that is primarily sexual. Bottom line: It seems that bubble tip anemone splitting is perfectly normal and is not necessarily a sign of stress. Although stress could also stimulate splitting.

 

I also wonder if healthy nems in captivity might be 1) be more likely to be primarily clonal types 2) might have resorted to primarily clonal reproduction in the absence, in most situations, of a suitable spawning partner...

 

Laura

 

 

Host Sea Anemone Secrets by Ron Shimek

"Good habitat and good food will result in well-maintained animals, which may result in reproduction. Some Anemones, particularly, Entacmaea quadricolor, asexually divide by fission to form clones. Such animals also may reproduce sexually". p. 19

 

Fautin and Smith 1992 Clonality as a taxonomic character of actinian species.

 

Fautin, Daphne Gail. 2002. Reproduction of Cnidaria.

 

 

 

 

 

poor assumption. asexual reproduction is often produced under stressed conditions in anemones and corallimorphs as a means of survival. hence why BTAs and other anemones often split after being moved to another tank or when shipped from the wild. one of the easiest ways we found to split the small morph of mini carpets was to toss them in skimmate for a short period of time. you can't always assume health because of reproduction.

[Grav]

Stress and health are 2 seperate factors. Skimmate splits (to coin a phrase) are a reaction to external stimulus, not an indication of health (either good or bad.) I've found that too large a water change can cause a split. I would guess that to be the reaction of a healthy animal under stress designed to increase the chances of survival.

 

Generally I do not see unhealthy (those with poor light, water quality or under fed) or "dying" BTAs split.

[dshnarw]

Actually, it is not a poor assumption, and in general you can assume health because of reproduction. A review of the research of Entacmaea quadricolor, the specific type of anemone I was referring to finds LOTS of references to exactly what you and Coral Hind have said: that splitting is a sign of stress or other problems. Mostly repeated on other boards. Unfortunately this seems to be a widely held view that does not seem to be backed up by any research that I could find. Is it possible that it is a sort of anemone urban myth?

 

It IS a poor assumption to say that "reproduction of any kind is probably a sign of a healthy animal". In most cases, this may be true, but just because an anemone splits does NOT necessarily mean good health. Some examples of the research done which suggests stress-induced fission include:

 

Fission in Sea Anemones: Integrative Studies of Life Cycle Evolution, Gellerman et al. 2005

 

The Regulation of Asexual Reproduction and Indeterminate Body Size in the Sea Anemone Anthopleura Elegantissima, Sebens 1980

 

For anthozoans in general, there is a HUGE list...a few of which:

 

Shick and Hoffmann, 1980

 

Karlson, 1983

 

Tanner, 1999

 

Observations made by aquarists have merely supported these conclusions. Sometimes widely held beliefs really are more than urban myths.

 

I am not saying that stress may not be one factor in stimulating asexual reproduction, I am just saying that the corollary "if your anemone IS splitting it is a sign of stress and that if it isn't splitting it is happy" is not necessarily true. It has even been suggested that there may be two types of Entacmaea quadricolor, one that is primarily clonal and one that is primarily sexual. Bottom line: It seems that bubble tip anemone splitting is perfectly normal and is not necessarily a sign of stress. Although stress could also stimulate splitting.

 

Nor did I say that anemones splitting is necessarily due to stress. I merely said that it is a possibility that must be considered. Simply put, I am trying to avoid the situation where someone finds this thread and assumes that their stressed out anemone is splitting because it's healthy because they read too far into your previous post, rather than because it is stressed.

 

 

I also wonder if healthy nems in captivity might be 1) be more likely to be primarily clonal types 2) might have resorted to primarily clonal reproduction in the absence, in most situations, of a suitable spawning partner...

 

I would agree with idea #1. #2 is a bit of a stretch, imo, since we rarely see reports of spawning events in even the largest aquaculture facilities. I believe Daphne Fautin would suggest that, as healthy as we may believe our anemones to be, we just aren't able to give them ideal conditions under which to spawn in the home aquarium.

[Coral Hind]

I agree with you Laura and I didn't say that they didn't split when happy and healthy. I was stating that from my observations the splitting events seem to be more frequently in mine and others due to stressful primers.

 

You are correct that there are two different types of E. quadricolor anemones. They are colonial and solitary. Both colonial and solitary types asexually reproduce. The colonial E. quadricolors come from shallow, well lighted areas of the reef. Since these areas allow easier collecting because of the minimal depth, these are the specimens that are normally seen in the hobby. The RBTAs are almost all colonial types. The deeper water specimens are normally only brown or green. One characteristic to tell the two apart is size. The colonial types will top out at 12" while the solitary ones get to be about 20".

[Sharkey18]

I agree with a lot of what you all have said.

 

The more I think about it the more I wonder if it is possible that stress can cause a healthy animal to split, but isn't necessarily a sign of an unhealthy animal.

 

And it certainly seems likely that simply the act of living in our artificially created environments may be stressful on it own. It may be possible that while my nem is healthy, as it grows larger and larger it runs out of space and that stress causes it to split.

 

I raised the entire question because by all outward signs my nem appears to be healthy and happy. Doesn't wander, good color, good growth, hosts clowns, good appetite, yet splits pretty regularly.

 

Thanks for all the info! I have more reading to do and thanks to everyone who participates in a healthy and civil exchange of ideas.

 

Laura

[dshnarw]

I agree with a lot of what you all have said.

 

The more I think about it the more I wonder if it is possible that stress can cause a healthy animal to split, but isn't necessarily a sign of an unhealthy animal.

 

And it certainly seems likely that simply the act of living in our artificially created environments may be stressful on it own. It may be possible that while my nem is healthy, as it grows larger and larger it runs out of space and that stress causes it to split.

 

I raised the entire question because by all outward signs my nem appears to be healthy and happy. Doesn't wander, good color, good growth, hosts clowns, good appetite, yet splits pretty regularly.

 

Thanks for all the info! I have more reading to do and thanks to everyone who participates in a healthy and civil exchange of ideas.

 

Laura

 

 

Fautin has argued much of that exactly for many years now That second paper I mentioned even found that, at least in the particular anemone species studied, the anemones that were "overfed" - the healthiest anemones - never reproduced asexually. In fact, they merely grew larger. The same group was then starved of food and many began asexual fission. In that species, an environmental stress is actually used to trigger when to reproduce asexually. The author describes this as a seasonal cycle in which food becomes more and less available. However, in regards to the health of the animal, I would argue that stress results in an unhealthy animal by definition. Health is "free of disease or ailment", and ailment is "unrest or uneasiness". I would argue that stress is a type of ailment that produces an unhealthy animal. Maybe others think my conclusions on the definition of health are overboard, but based on the research I listed previously, the healthy or unstressed individuals are not the anemones that asexually reproduced, but rather the stressed or unhealthy individuals. To those of you that aren't a fan of the definition I've given, I would suggest that we consider the difference between long and short term health. Grav - your anemone may be, long term, one of the healthiest anyone has raised in captivity...but the short term health of the animal was "poor" because of a stress produced during the water change, resulting in "survival mode" splitting.

 

To equate this to human experience, you could equate the anemone to a fisherman in the Bering Strait. Long term, quite healthy. But what happens if your environment suddenly changes - say you fall off the boat? Short term, your health is quite poor - you're in serious danger of frostbite and hypothermia. Your anemone experienced a similar environmental shock due to the water change. External/environmental changes, then, produce very sudden shifts in the short term health of the animal.