Mag sulfate and mag chloride

[jnguyen4007]

Bulk Reef Supply carry both. What's the difference?

[DaveS]

Bulk Reef Supply carry both. What's the difference?

 

 

blah blah blah lots of chemistry formulas blah blah blah...

 

Both put Mg in your tank which is good. Either one by themselves leaves something behind (Sulfate or Chloride) which is bad. By using both, the Sulfate and and Chloride take care of each other and don't cause bad chemicals to accumulate in the tank.

 

BTW, if you do water changes frequently enough, they say it's ok to use either by themselves as the water changes will keep the accumulation levels down.

 

Also, if you want to save a few bucks, just buy the MgCl from BRS. The Mag Sulfate is just Epsom salt which you can buy at the grocery store, drug store or Costco.

Edited August 27, 2009 by DaveS

[Origami]

blah blah blah lots of chemistry formulas blah blah blah... (sorry, couldn't resist)

 

Both sulfate and chloride ions are major ions already in your tank. Neither are "bad." Heck, this is salt water, right? The salt we're mostly talking about is sodium-chloride. So chloride is not bad. It's present in your aquarium at 19,000 ppm. Neither is sulfate, it's present in your tank at 2,700 ppm. Keeping a relative balance between these is advised. The "big four" ions are (in order) chloride (19,000 ppm), sodium (10,500 ppm), sulfate (2,700 ppm) and magnesium (1280 ppm).

 

When you dose magnesium using magnesium chloride, for every magnesium ion you add to the tank, you get two chloride ions. When dosing magnesium sulfate, you get one sulfate ion for the same magnesium that you want. Over the long term, if you use only magnesium chloride to boost magnesium, you begin to raise the chloride level without maintaining balance with the sulfate ion concentration. Likewise with magnesium sulfate except it's the sulfate concentration that's raised.

 

If you perform regular water changes, maintaining magnesium using straight magnesium chloride is reasonable. (There are cheaper ways than using BRS mag chloride if you want to know.) However, a more balance alternative is to mix both magnesium chloride and magnesium sulfate in a 5:3 ratio (by dry volume) to achieve a reasonable balance between chloride and sulfate ions.

 

If you want to read more, this is an excellent article: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/rhf/index.php

 

Personally, I use commercial pelleted magnesium chloride (Mag Pellet - but I could just as easily use Mag Flake) from Dead Sea Works (it's an ice melt) and Epsom salts from CVS for these chemicals. You can get a 50# bag of Mag Flake for around $20 (from Harvey Salt in Baltimore) and the Epsom salts from just about any drug store around. Read the article. It has the potential to save you a lot of money.

Edited August 28, 2009 by Origami2547

[Sikryd]

You can get a 50# bag of Mag Flake for around $20 (from Harvey Salt in Baltimore) and the Epsom salts from just about any drug store around. Read the article. It has the potential to save you a lot of money.

 

There is a long term reefer up here using the same stuff as you. I am looking into doing it as well since it is about 10x cheaper, if not more.

He also found a place for calcium, I'm not sure where though. I have to talk to him about it a little more since I will be sticking to 3 part dosing.

[DaveS]

There is a long term reefer up here using the same stuff as you. I am looking into doing it as well since it is about 10x cheaper, if not more.

He also found a place for calcium, I'm not sure where though. I have to talk to him about it a little more since I will be sticking to 3 part dosing.

 

 

Additives:

 

Ca- Prestone Ice Melt available at Home Depot. Dow Peladow also works but is harder to find

Alk- Baking Soda from the grocery store if you want pH to drop, pH Up from pool supply stores if you want it pH to rise a little

Mg- Dow Flake and Epsom Salt as mentioned previously.

 

Basically you are looking at around $40 for more than a year's supply of additives.

[Origami]

There is a long term reefer up here using the same stuff as you. I am looking into doing it as well since it is about 10x cheaper, if not more.

He also found a place for calcium, I'm not sure where though. I have to talk to him about it a little more since I will be sticking to 3 part dosing.

 

Calcium Chloride is also available as an ice melt. Dow Flake, Peladow, and Tetra all make stuff that's been used successfully in reef aquariums. Recently, there was some concern about Dow's new process that resulted in a product with higher bromide levels, but most of that concern's been alleviated as long as you keep up with regular water changes to keep the build up of bromide down. Tetra's process is supposed to result in a high quality product but I've found the product a little more difficult to find in the retail market. Some of my recent research indicates that Force calcium chloride may be made in the same factory and by the same process that Tetra used for their supply of Calcium Chloride after Hurricane Katrina shut down their plant in Louisiana for a time. Thus, it may be useful, as well. I've seen this product in Home Depot and, last year, in Sam's Club, and other places.

 

Peladow is on the stock list over at Harvey Salt. I also know that, last winter, they had Force on hand as well.

[jnguyen4007]

Back in the beginning when I first got into the hobby and did the 2 part method. I noticed that each time I add a bit of CA and alk into the sump, the pH meter would spke through the roof for about an hour or two before it settled down again. Does anyone else who uses two part method notice the same thing?

[m3fan8ic]

Back in the beginning when I first got into the hobby and did the 2 part method. I noticed that each time I add a bit of CA and alk into the sump, the pH meter would spke through the roof for about an hour or two before it settled down again. Does anyone else who uses two part method notice the same thing?

 

 

I add two part manually everyday in my 75gl sump which pushes it to my MT upstairs and I do notice that my Ph level go up but doesn't spike up as you stated. I see it gradually go up i.e 7.9-8.2, 8.3

[jnguyen4007]

I add two part manually everyday in my 75gl sump which pushes it to my MT upstairs and I do notice that my Ph level go up but doesn't spike up as you stated. I see it gradually go up i.e 7.9-8.2, 8.3

 

The pH level on my ACIII spiked up to 9 and 10 before it gradually drop down again. It could very well be because the solution had not had a chance to mix with the water in the tank yet so that the pH probe picked up a more concentrated amount in the beginning.

[hlem]

Additives:

 

Ca- Prestone Ice Melt available at Home Depot. Dow Peladow also works but is harder to find

Alk- Baking Soda from the grocery store if you want pH to drop, pH Up from pool supply stores if you want it pH to rise a little

Mg- Dow Flake and Epsom Salt as mentioned previously.

 

Basically you are looking at around $40 for more than a year's supply of additives.

So where do you buy Mag Flake?

[m3fan8ic]

You can get a 50# bag of Mag Flake for around $20 (from Harvey Salt in Baltimore) and the Epsom salts from just about any drug store around. Read the article. It has the potential to save you a lot of money.

 

 

So where do you buy Mag Flake?

[hlem]

oh thanks, but does anyone know where to get that local to NOVA area?

[m3fan8ic]

Any drug store for Epsom salt.

[DaveS]

The MAG flake is probably the most difficult part to find. That's why I suggested that if you are going to order from BRS to get that and not Epsom salt. As Tom mentioned, there's a place near Baltimore where you can get 50# for $20. It's just a question of whether it's worth driving up there during the day to get it.