Generator and electrical question - electrician answer needed

[Sikryd]

I added a generator to my stable a little while back. Since then I have had a couple questions pop up online and have been wondering if the electricians or guys that know, could answer some things.

 

When the power went out this is what I did -

 

1. Shut the breaker off at the box

2. I ran a male to male extension cord from the generator to the wall outlet/circuit I wanted to energize.

 

When the power came back on, I shutdown the generator and disconnected it, shut everything off - to not get a surge in the circuit, then turned the breaker back on.

 

The question was posed that since the breaker "ground", bus, or nuetral line stays connected, that possibly power could be fed back up the line into the grid.

I don't think that that would be possible - household electronics aside - just knowing that the circuit isn't complete. Not to mention that when the power came back on, then it would theoretically backfeed to the generator and blow it - which doesn't happen.

 

So is there anything I need to do more, or worry about while connecting my generator up?

Edited August 22, 2009 by Sikryd

[paul b]

No there is nothing you should worry about. I have my generator hooked up exactly like yours (which is illegal by the way)

Your neutral bar in your panel is grounded, that is it is connected to either your water main or ground stake or both. You can not feed any power back to the power lines through the neutral. As long as you have the main breaker off (very important) you will not back feed the line.

I installed a bell on my incoming line on the street side of my circuit breakers. I also have a switch on it. When my power goes out, I hook up my generator just like you do and I turn on that switch. When my utility power comes back on the bell rings and I know to shut off the generator.

That power cord you have with two male ends (just like I have) is dangerous and illegal. Just turn off the generator before you un plug it as the male ends of it are energized.

 

(Electrician Construction Foreman Manhattan 40 years)

[Coral Hind]

Yes, this is illegal and can be very dangerous! Your generator must be installed on a double-throw switch or on interlocking breakers in your panel.

 

I have been hit hard twice by homeowners hooking up generators the way you two are. Sure it is all planned out well but if you forget a step then you back feed the xfmr possibly killing the guy working to get your power back on.

 

I disagree that you can not back feed on the neutral. Under normal circumstances it shouldn't happen but it is not impossible. I have seen bonding issues and opened neutrals that allowed it to happen.

 

Some small generators, mainly Honda, are not designed to beinstalled into a "grounded neutral" system. They are designed to run tools and other items plugged directly into them. Double check your owners manual.

[lanman]

As much of a cowboy as I am where electricity is concerned, I kind of have to agree with Coral Hind... it's the middle of the night - it's raining, it's dark except for pockets of light and flashlights. It would be way too easy to forget a step and create a very hazardous situation. If you want to be prepared - add an outlet box that is NOT connected to your power system, with a male connector on it. Move your plugs over to it, and plug it into the generator.

 

Or if you REALLY want to do it right, get an auto-start diesel (or propane) generator, and an auto-transfer switch!! Wheeee!

 

bob

[flowerseller]

I have a wiring system just for this event.

 

It's very unsafe to run it the way it is being discribed.

[Sikryd]

I have a wiring system just for this event.

 

It's very unsafe to run it the way it is being discribed.

 

Are you going to let us in on it Chip?

 

I'd like to set it up as safe as possible, and not have any issues. Being lazy and just leaving it the way it is, just isn't my cup of tea.

 

So -

 

What would be the best way to go about this, without spending a ton of money on a seperate junction box and switch?

Edited August 22, 2009 by Sikryd

[paul b]

The correct and legal way is to put in a transfer switch but it will cost you some money. There is no cheap way to do it correctly unless you can do it yourself. then you can do it for under $100.00.

[dandy7200]

The correct and legal way is to put in a transfer switch but it will cost you some money. There is no cheap way to do it correctly unless you can do it yourself. then you can do it for under $100.00.

 

On the off chance you happen to forget to turn the main breaker off and kill a lineman by doing this, how much does it cost?

 

If you can't afford to have a transfer switch installed correctly then you should plug your electrical devices into the generator directly.

[flowerseller]

Are you going to let us in on it Chip?

 

I'd like to set it up as safe as possible, and not have any issues. Being lazy and just leaving it the way it is, just isn't my cup of tea.

 

So -

 

What would be the best way to go about this, without spending a ton of money on a seperate junction box and switch?

 

Sure, no secret here.

I simply ran a line to my tank, gas furnace, ridge/freezer, tv room and kitchen lights.

In the event of a power outage,I plug the coiled lines into the generator and plug stuff into the outlets by each.

I was too cheap so far to get the whole transfer box and special plugs and cables to do it the other way.

[Sikryd]

lol@Dan

 

 

Cool - I'll look into the transfer switch option.

 

Does anyone have a link to one online that would work? I have no idea what to begin to look for? I was under the impression that they were $500+ - I guess that is for the auto-transfer switch?

 

I have a certified electrician do all my connecting to the box, and checking my circuits, so I'm sure he'll hook it up - I'll pick up the parts and do the work. I'm still in the middle of wiring my basement, so that'll work out good.

 

 

The long term plan was to hook up an external outlet that is on the same circuit and use that to plug the generator into. So this will work well with that since it isn't that big of a deal to add the transfer switch in.

Edited August 23, 2009 by Sikryd

[dandy7200]

http://www.smps.us/transferswitch.html

 

That should help you understand the difference between a manual and auto transfer switch. The switch needs to be sized to you generator. Search transfer switch on Amazon for quite a good selection. Your electrician may have opinions on which one he wants to work with, or has installed in the past, so don't be afraid to ask his opinion too.

[Sikryd]

http://www.smps.us/transferswitch.html

 

That should help you understand the difference between a manual and auto transfer switch. The switch needs to be sized to you generator. Search transfer switch on Amazon for quite a good selection. Your electrician may have opinions on which one he wants to work with, or has installed in the past, so don't be afraid to ask his opinion too.

 

 

Thanks Dan! That is exactly what I was looking for. Something that kind of explained it so I could see what you guys were talking about. I understand the schematic more than someone trying to put it into words online, since my background has a lot to do with electrical, just not household 120v. I'm still learning and reading up on that stuff right now while I am re-doing a few things I am not happy with around the house.

 

Now I see what you guys were saying about the backfeed issue and how this will cut it off the box completely so the power is isolated.

I'll pick one of these up tomorrow at Lowe's or HomeDepot and get to wiring. With the storms around here lately I'll probably be able to test it out again before years end.

 

Thanks for all the help, I am definetely glad I asked this on here. I knew there were some knowledgeable electrical guys on here.

I'll definetely pass the information on.

Edited August 23, 2009 by Sikryd

[Sikryd]

Sure, no secret here.

I simply ran a line to my tank, gas furnace, ridge/freezer, tv room and kitchen lights.

In the event of a power outage,I plug the coiled lines into the generator and plug stuff into the outlets by each.

I was too cheap so far to get the whole transfer box and special plugs and cables to do it the other way.

 

Without writing out all of what I did, and bought since then, I didn't change line item two above -

I just disconnected the 8 plug computer thing from the wall that my pumps were on, and plugged it into the extension cord from the generator. Same with the fridge, I plugged it into the other extension cord from the generator.

 

I just recently bought the male end and was going to cut an extention cord and was going to add that end on it soon. I just didn't feel like explaining it all, and couldn't think of the what the eight plug thing is called that all my pumps plug into

I'm glad I didn't waste a good extension cord now.

 

Cool - now I should be on the road to the legal beagal, safely way of doing it.