Getting a DSLR camera

[SteveM]

About the lenses, yes the Nikon lenses right now are quite a bit higher in price than the Cannons. As the Nikon prices level out the Cannon prices will catch up at some point. It is inevitable due to the economy and the price of the dollar against the yen. I am a Nikon shooter and have a D80 and a D300. I don't even want to tell you what I have spent on lenses to this point and I still have a couple of more high end lenses to pick up. Personally I don't think you can go wrong with a Nikon or a Cannon and the bottom line is what you feel most comfortable with and can afford. Like reef tanks, photography is addictive and expensive.

 

Don't be discouraged that your pictures don't look great. Taking tank pics is not easy and to be honest with you a lot of it has to do with the processing of the photo after you take the pic. Getting a sharp image is one thing but getting the color correct is a totally different animal. No DSLR on the market can take a color correct image of a tank that is running 20K metal halides and blue actinics. that is accomplished in post processing. A good photo editor is a must if you are going to be taking a lot of digital images.

 

Since you are in Fairfax I would be happy to help you out. I am close to Manassas and if you want to stop by I can show you my set up and my computer software to give you an idea of what can be done.

[Boret]

That would be great Steve. I will take you up on that. Let me know when.

I am good with software, and I already have Lightroom 2.4 (64bit) running on my system to process RAW files. I can see how the different processing of the RAW images yields more proximity to the real colors. But if I can't get a sharp image to start with there is little I can do to improve it.

 

I can see how the lens can make a huge difference. On paper, the Sony a350 is a "better" camera, or at least has more features and more megapixels, but the reality is that the D40 with the 18-70mm lens takes sharper pictures even though it is a 6MP vs the 14MP of the Sony. Take ths statement lightly as it is my personal experience with both cameras and as you can tell I have very limited knowledge of DSLRs.

From what I have gathered online, the kit lenses on the Sony are of less quality than the kit lens of the Nikon.

 

I agree with you that either the Canon or the Nikon would be a great camera. I am torn between the T1i and the D5000. But I am concern that after spending close to $1,000 I will be able to take just slightly better pictures than my point and shoot $150 Olympus. If then I have to spend another grand in lenses and another 200-300 in Remote, Flash, bag for all the equipment, etc... I can see easily spending over 2 grand. If after I spend that money I can't take decent pictures I would be very frustrated.

[JMsAquarium]

Hey Salvador,

 

I have the Canon XTI with the 18-55 kit lens. It's a really nice camera. Come and have a look at it if you are interested, or I can bring it to you for some test shots and you can compare with the ones you already have in hand. The best comparison would be to use the various cameras by taking the exact same shot in the exact same conditions.

 

And here's a few pics taken with it

 

 

 

 

 

LKM

Edited August 25, 2009 by JMsAquarium

[Gadgets]

Great thread! Good luck with everything. If you have any questions feel free to ask. Looks like these guys took care of everything.

[Sikryd]

This is what I decided to get since I don't feel like spending the time to learn everything. It should take care of all the things I need it to do. Including RAW settings, which is as far as I am going to go for now. \

 

Plus it will double as my camcorder

 

With a baby on the way, I figure I needed something nice enough to take some nice print quality photos, as well as something for the reef, but nothing too extravagant where I would have to read a bunch of stuff on how to use it. (Which I KNOW I will do anyway :/ )

 

 

 

[Boret]

JMsAquarium those are some really cool pictures!! Thanks for sharing!

I might take you up on your offer as I have had the chance to use both a Nikon D40 and a Sony A350 but no Canon.

I can already tell some features that I like in each camera.

 

Really leaning towards a camera with Live View, it just makes it easier for tripod pics. As long as I can turn it off so I get faster shooting speed when needed.

 

143gadgets oh man!! Come on share your knowledge! I need to figure out how you keep your eggcrate so clean!

 

Sikryd I thought about it. Seeing that I am not good with a camera maybe one of those would be enough. I just don't see myself carrying extra lenses.... but then I read the reviews and for the money the DSLR get much better scores.... Chad, could you share any pictures from that camera?

[Sikryd]

I don't have it yet. I am waiting to get a deal on it somewhere.

 

From all that I have read on reviews, it is all that and some. Especially with the camcording. So I figure it does everything pretty good, there's no reason for me to get too crazy with it, yet...

If I get more into photography later, it can handle a lot of it. And if it doesn't I can always upgrade.

 

I know I won't carry extra lenses, and sit there adjusting settings and stuff. I don't even do it with my underwater camera that much. So this should work fine for me.

 

I see the "scores" of DSLR, but I know from personal experience that is treading in professional quality. If you don't have professional quality post-processing software (which I do already) then that won't make much difference - at least from what I hear. So that might be something to take into consideration.

 

I just know I won't have the time or drive to get all crazy into photography. Especially the post-processing part. All I want to do is adjust a few things, crop and print. If it takes a really nice clear picture, that is mainly what I am looking for so I can print them out and all that.

 

I'll let you know if I find a deal though.

[dshnarw]

Boret, if you'll be at the meeting Saturday, I'll undoubtedly have my Canon with me. Feel free to take it for a spin while we're there.

 

If you decide to "back up" and go for a high-end P&S, I'd recommend looking at the Canon G-series. In terms of image quality, they are at the top of the P&S pile. They're larger than the pocket-cams, but smaller than a DSLR or superzoom P&S (I can fit mine in my back pocket, but it fits a bit like George Costanza's wallet). The additional benefit is that, if you decide to upgrade to a DSLR later, you can get used to adjusting settings with this series, since they give you full control of ISO, aperture, and shutter speed in Manual settings.

 

Remember though, no P&S is really going to compare to a DSLR. While, under optimal conditions, the top-end P&S cameras will do a great job, even produce a professional quality pic every once in a while, they don't perform nearly as well in low light situations (like most aquariums), they're slow to focus and take a photo, and don't deliver the consistent results that a DSLR will. That said, I've won contests with my P&S, and I've taken awful photos with my SLR. But if I'm batting .300 with the SLR, I'm batting .100 with the P&S.

[Sikryd]

Boret, if you'll be at the meeting Saturday, I'll undoubtedly have my Canon with me. Feel free to take it for a spin while we're there.

 

If you decide to "back up" and go for a high-end P&S, I'd recommend looking at the Canon G-series. In terms of image quality, they are at the top of the P&S pile. They're larger than the pocket-cams, but smaller than a DSLR or superzoom P&S (I can fit mine in my back pocket, but it fits a bit like George Costanza's wallet). The additional benefit is that, if you decide to upgrade to a DSLR later, you can get used to adjusting settings with this series, since they give you full control of ISO, aperture, and shutter speed in Manual settings.

 

Remember though, no P&S is really going to compare to a DSLR. While, under optimal conditions, the top-end P&S cameras will do a great job, even produce a professional quality pic every once in a while, they don't perform nearly as well in low light situations (like most aquariums), they're slow to focus and take a photo, and don't deliver the consistent results that a DSLR will. That said, I've won contests with my P&S, and I've taken awful photos with my SLR. But if I'm batting .300 with the SLR, I'm batting .100 with the P&S.

 

Since I've kind of helped hijack this -

 

Maybe you can help us both out on what you think of the megazoom I listed. I'm looking for something that is veratile, yet my wife will be able to use it without too much help. (I'll be taking 90% of the picture I can bet)

 

I'm about .100 with my underwater too. Its hard taking 100 shots and only finding one that is true to life!

[dshnarw]

Since I've kind of helped hijack this -

 

Maybe you can help us both out on what you think of the megazoom I listed. I'm looking for something that is veratile, yet my wife will be able to use it without too much help. (I'll be taking 90% of the picture I can bet)

 

I'm about .100 with my underwater too. Its hard taking 100 shots and only finding one that is true to life!

 

 

Based on a few different review sites (DPReview has a good review of this camera, compared to the SX10 IS) the good is obviously the optical zoom range, the addition of HD video for those who like to make movies without the video cam, and the body layout is very similar to Canon's DSLR series. It looks to have full manual controls, in case someone is looking for an intermediate step between a pocket-cam and an SLR. If you have the time to post-process/batch convert the photos, it has RAW format, and macro focus is very nice...you can basically put the camera lens on an object and focus on it. For the wife, it has an automatic mode that makes it a pure P&S + zoom system. If your wife is like mine, the exact camera won't make too much difference, since just about any consumer camera can be put on auto at this point. What made the difference for my wife was the comfort factor when holding it and carrying it around. But ya never know...women are strange creatures.

 

The downsides... While the zoom range is very nice, it also makes for poor optical quality at the superzoom end. I would expect it to be fairly difficult to get nice photos when zoomed to the max. Low light handling is poor - as with all P&S models - and based on the reviews, isn't the top performer in the superzoom/high end P&S range. So, while it has ISO 80-3200, the usable range is still 80-200 in most situations, maybe up to 400 if you're just posting on the web. Expect tank photography to be a lot of misses, especially in regards to fish (although this is the case to some degree with any camera).

 

On the subjective front...it uses AA batteries. Personally, I don't like this because they don't last as long per charge and they can only hold so many recharges before they've died. Just too much expense and too much to keep up with. On P&S cameras with a dedicated battery pack, you can just about shoot all day without worrying about the batteries dying. And a second (off brand) battery pack is $10 on amazon...and they'll last just about the lifetime of the camera. The second thing is the swivel screen. It's really nice to be able to see the screen without bending over to camera level, but I'm also rather clumsy. If it were my camera, the screen would be broken in 3 months. Otherwise, it's a nice feature.

 

I suppose, if I were buying something in this range, my final consideration would be whether or not I'd use the HD video and if post-processing (RAW format) interested me. If not, then the SX10 IS is a better bet, imo, because it has slightly better image quality and a cheaper price. Other cameras you might look at in this range are the Sony DSC-HX1 and the Panasonic DMC-FZ28. I think, if you're looking for a single fixed lens camera that does everything, it's a good choice. If you can live without some options - superzoom, video, etc. - then you can find better options specific to what you want to do.

 

For a good summary of pros/cons on the SX1 IS: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/CanonSX1IS/page17.asp

 

From a personal standpoint, the part of a superzoom that prevents me from ever considering any of them for a backup camera is their size. For me, it's just large enough that I might as well have an SLR, since I'm going to be carrying the camera bag or need a neckstrap for the superzoom anyway. And then, if I'm carrying the camera bag, I have room for a couple of lenses that will serve whatever purpose I have planned that day. If I didn't want to have to deal with the bag/neckstrap, I'd be going for a P&S that fits in my pocket, albeit with some stretch. In my case, it would all be back down to a comfort thing...make sure you (and your wife ) hold the camera and consider how realistically it is you'll take the camera to that event or on that trip, since you can't get the shot if you leave the camera at home.

[Sikryd]

Cool - thanks for your help.

 

Is there a small point and shoot that you can recommend? I think that is a more realistic type of camera we both would be happy with. Price range is in the $500, but cheaper is always good.

 

I appreciate the help. Without being a photographer and reading all the reviews, I don't even know what to look for when it comes to getting a nice solid looking photo most of the time.

I would say 90% of photos will be family shots with the new baby, doing stuff together, and with very little if any shots of the tank since I have the Canon underwater.

I will be using that as well, but it doesn't have a lense cap, which I hate. So it will be more of a household camera, not an on-the-go one.

 

 

EDITTED - It looks like this is the best point and shoot out there and in our price range. I'll probably just pick this up since I KNOW the wife won't want a bigger camera, or learn to use it. This is probably the most versatile for what I am looking for.

 

BACK TO YOUR REGULAR SCHEDULED PROGRAMMING OF HELPING BORET FIND A CAMERA! Lol

Edited August 28, 2009 by Sikryd

[dshnarw]

Cool - thanks for your help.

 

Is there a small point and shoot that you can recommend? I think that is a more realistic type of camera we both would be happy with. Price range is in the $500, but cheaper is always good.

 

I appreciate the help. Without being a photographer and reading all the reviews, I don't even know what to look for when it comes to getting a nice solid looking photo most of the time.

I would say 90% of photos will be family shots with the new baby, doing stuff together, and with very little if any shots of the tank since I have the Canon underwater.

I will be using that as well, but it doesn't have a lense cap, which I hate. So it will be more of a household camera, not an on-the-go one.

 

 

EDITTED - It looks like this is the best point and shoot out there and in our price range. I'll probably just pick this up since I KNOW the wife won't want a bigger camera, or learn to use it. This is probably the most versatile for what I am looking for.

 

BACK TO YOUR REGULAR SCHEDULED PROGRAMMING OF HELPING BORET FIND A CAMERA! Lol

 

 

If you're not looking for HD video and extreme zoom, take a look at the Canon G10 or maybe wait for the G11, which will be out in the next couple of months. The image quality is the best of all the P&S cameras right now, and it should be a bit cheaper than the SX1 IS. (Canon also offers a high quality underwater housing for this series at a reasonable price.) Anyway - I think you'll be happy with the SX1 if you go with it. We all look forward to the baby shots

[Boret]

Thanks dshnarw. I am not sure that we will be able to make it. But if we do I will look you up.

 

This is great info Chad, so don't worry about hijacking the thread. Your posts are relevant. I have considered the option of a similar camera to the SX1, but for the money you can get an entry level DSLR.

 

I was looking at the D3000, available for $600, the replacement of the D40 by Nikon, but no Live View. I really like Live View, a feature for that will make the camera "wife" friendly. Also good for tripod shots.

 

Seeing how the implementation of Video in the DSLR is not great I might be better off getting a DSLR without video (i.e. Canon XSI) and buy a HD Camcorder (about $150) if I really want/need the video.

[Sikryd]

I'm still up in the air as well. I have looked at the D3000 and D5000 as well. I'm just not sure if I want a big bulky camera, or something I can hold in my pocket.

I just want to make sure whatever I get, I can get some nice shots that I can print and look the same if I was using a 35mm. I haven't done much of that at all - I just view them on the computer now. I am sure that will change with a baby.

 

I'm sure I'll wait to pick it up till around Xmas time when the prices come down and they are trying to sell more of them. I'm sure by then the models will change, and new ones will come out like dshnarw said.

 

So I'll be following along still to see if you ever decide and whether you are happy with your choice or not.

 

The baby isn't due till February, till then I don't need a new camera just to take pictures of my ugly mug!

[zygote2k]

My 2 cameras- Sony DSC F828 takes pictures as good as any Nikon D series. You can pick one up for about $300 used.

Point and shoot best of the bunch- Sony DSC N1. check out both of these cameras before you invest more than $300.

[OUsnakebyte]

Sorry I'm coming in late to this thread, as I am in the market for a DSLR as well. This has been a great read, by the way - thanks to all.

 

I have been leaning towards the D90, but only due to the limited research I have done. However, those I have talked to say the 90 "outperforms" the 5000 - but... honestly, I have no idea what that means. I sucketh at photography.

 

If I could solicit some free advice....

 

- I'd like a DSLR - this much I know.

- The idea of HD video intrigues me, but I don't expect Imax quality or anything. I understand these are basically 1st gen SLRs with video (right?).

- I know I will need two lenses; I LOVE macro photography

- This will be my primary dive camera - yes I understand the housings are often more expensive than the camera itself. Add on external strobes at $500-$700 each, and in the end I am going to end up spending more than $3000 easily. I'm not buying this all at once. I'll have the camera for some time, learning how to actually use it before I take it under water...

 

Does anyone know if Canons or Nikons are better for UW photography? Is the D90 a good dive camera for stills AND for switching to video? I only mention the D90 b/c that is the one I have looked at more than the other cameras.

 

Cheers (and thanks for the thread Boret)

Mike

Edited September 3, 2009 by OUsnakebyte

[Boret]

No problem Mike, I am glad this thread is helping several people.

 

Right now I am between the Canon XSI and the Canon T1i and the Nikon D5000.

I have no idea on Underwater photography and I have not researched that.

 

I have used both a Sony Alpha350 (very nice camera for the $$) and a Nikon D40 (also very nice). Seeing that Nikon was coming up with the D3000 I dismissed the D40. Once I realized that the D3000 didn't have Live View I narrow it down to the Nikon D5000, Canon XSI and Canon T1i. This article gives you a fast comparison on both. But basically from what I have read, if you own an XSI is not worth it to buy a T1i, but if you are buying a DSLR for the first time then the T1i is a better deal. Nikon lenses are more expensive than Canon's (as far as I can see online) but not that important to me as I will probably only add a 50mm lens and maybe a macro. I find the Nikon more comfortable in my hand than the Canon that has a narrower grip, but the Canon has better specs than the Nikon.

 

With the recently announced Canon Digital Rebel T1i becoming available in April 2009, many prospective Digital SLR buyers are finding it difficult to decide between the Rebel T1i and the Rebel XSi cameras. The T1i definitely packs more punch, but it comes at a price, so the question is: "Is it worth it?".

 

Before we highlight the primary differences, let's have a quick look at the similarities. Both cameras have exactly the same dimensions and both have a 3 inch LCD screen. Canon's 9 point Autofocus system and 35 Zone Evaluative Metering system also remains unchanged.

 

The very useful EOS Integrated Cleaning system and Dust Delete Data Detection has also been implemented in both cameras. Highlight Tone Priority Mode is available in both cameras, but implemented slightly differently on the T1i - it has in essence remained the same however. Both cameras are sold with the same kit lens, the Canon EF-S 18-55mm F/3.5-5.6 IS and as usual, both cameras are fully compatible with the Canon EF and EF-S range lenses.

 

The most obvious difference between the XSi and the T1i is the APS-C CMOS Sensor that has been upgraded from 12.2 Megapixels in the XSi to 15.1 Megapixels in the T1i. Personally I'm not a Megapixel chaser and it's not a deciding factor for me, but that is unfortunately what the camera buying public is aware of and it sells. The T1i boasts with the relatively new DIGIC 4 processor which is far quicker than it's predecessor the DIGIC III which is found in the XSi. This processor unlocks what is probably the most exciting feature of the T1i - Full HD video recording. This single feature improves the versatility of the T1i over the XSi by a wide margin and very soon we will see high quality videos of babies and kids birthday parties all over the internet. Although not a replacement for a proper video camera yet, this feature at least reduces the number of occasions when both a SLR and video camera has to be lugged around.

 

Another advantage of the DIGIC 4 processor is the T1i's ability to shoot up to 170 large JPEGS continuously, compared to the 53 of the XSi. Sports photographers or parents shooting their children's football game will definitely appreciate this feature.

 

Although the LCD screens are the same size, the 920 000 pixel resolution on the screen of the T1i is significantly better than the 230 000 pixel resolution of the XSi LCD screen. This improves menu legibility in less than ideal conditions and improves the image display and live view accordingly. This is very useful for photographers who are sometimes disappointed by slightly out of focus images in post processing.

 

The ISO range on the XSi has been increased from 100-1600 to 100-3200, expandable to 12800. This feature, together with the improved noise reduction on the T1i unlocks shooting possibilities for the photographer that would have been lost with the XSi. Together, these features enable the photographer to shoot under darker conditions than before.

 

The T1i sells for approximately $799 (body only) or $899 (with kit lens), compared to $580 and $699 for the XSi. Are the new features of the T1i worth the additional $200? Looking at each of the improvements separately, I cannot say that there is a single feature that justifies the additional spend, BUT all the features together collaborates to present the consumer market with a very well-balanced entry level DSLR that is versatile and easy to use, but at the same time has all the features necessary to provide the user with a wide variety of creative options. If I had to buy my first DSLR right now, I'd probably go for the T1i.

 

For $600 I can get the Canon XSI with the EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS Lens. $700 if I add the 50mm 1.8f II "Nifty Fifty" lens.

 

For $774 I can get the Canon t1i with the EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS Lens. $884 if I add the "Nifty Fifty"

 

For $745 I can get the Nikon D5000 w/ 18-55mm VR Lens. $884 if I add the Nikon 50mm f/1.8D AF Nikkor Lens

 

So right now, for me the question is:

 

Is HD Video, Digic iV processor, triple LCD resolution and 3 extra megapixel worth $174 bucks difference between XSI and T1i? I think so.

 

At the same price, do you get the same out of the D5000 vs the T1i?

 

The T1i beats the D5000 by a hair on most reviews. And basically on things that are not huge for pros, but interesting for newbies like me. Canon has better Live View (faster focus) and a better implementation on the Video recording as it can autofocus while recording video, plus you can snap pics without stopping the video. But there is one thing that might make the Nikon a better video recorder for aquarium: Canon actually varies ISO settings along with auto exposure every time your video's lighting changes dramatically and you can't change it to manual, Nikon gives you more control.

 

One option is to get a cheaper DSLR and buy a Camcorder.

Another thing to keep in mind is resale value. The XSI will depreciate more than the t1i, even though resale value in camera bodies is horrible, the money is in the lenses.

 

For those of you looking into video out of the camera most of the review praise the Panasonic Lumix GH1 as the best implementation. Might be worth a look.

Edited September 3, 2009 by Boret

[JMsAquarium]

I am very pleased with the Canon XSi so far. I have taken over 2000 pictures with it, most of them using the TV mode (shutter speed) in large jpeg format, AI servo mode, with multiple focus points (9 points in this camera). The reason for shooting in jpeg and not raw being that most of the pics will be handed without having time to post processing raw.

The autofocus in all the modes is fast and accurate, and I usually shoot in burst mode with an average of 10 pics per burst. The buffer is fast enough and I haven't had any issues where it was full and needed time to write on the card before the next shot. During an average jump I will take about 90 to 120 pics in about 45 to 50 seconds.

I have also used, on the ground, all the various settings offered by the camera. Here as well I was very pleased with the XSi. The shots that were not good were definitely the fault of the user, not the camera.

The 18-55 kit lens does a great job, and will give you plenty of opportunity to take nice pictures while playing with and learning how to use the camera. That is, it will let you hone your skills until you decide what other lenses you want to buy. the IS and AF on the lens are again fast enough for such a budget lens

The live view mode is nice and works fine, although I seldom use it.

As with regards to the pixels and th HD video, my choice was really easy. I already have a video cam, and most of the time, I jump with both as I have to shoot video and stills simultaneously.

The battery averages around 650 shots before it dies. With a mix of pics taken with and without the built in flash.

It is light enough to be carried around during the day.

 

If you do not need the HD video and your choice narrows down to a Canon camera, then Definitely go for the XSi rather than the T1i. I have never used a Nikon or other brands so I wont compare it to their equivalent.

The reason I did choose a Canon, was simply based on the availability of specialty trigger switches available on the market. I needed one that can be mouth activated and plugged into the camera. The infrared ones have in some occasions interfered with the video camera and for what I do it is a big NO NO.

 

JM

[Boret]

The only time my cameras go airborne is when the produce blue pictures of my tank!!!!

 

Just the possibility to shoot 170 continuous pics of the T1i vs the 53 of the XSi might be a good thing for you. But not worth the extra expense.

The quality of the LCD on Live View for Tripod Shots together with the extra pixels to crop and get closer shots I think make the T1i a better option I think. The Video in DSLRs is not ready for the use you make of it.

 

I think the only time I can see getting the XSi over the T1i (for me) is a used XSi vs a new T1i, then the difference in $ is more than $174. I could consider a used XSI for $400 or less. That gives me $300 for an extra lens, battery and misc equip for the same $ than a new T1i with the kit lens.

[Boret]

So... you selling your XSI JM?

[JMsAquarium]

Exactly, the XSi fits my needs better than the T1i Hence why I've chosen it.

 

Ha!!! I could sell it to you but since I have already touched it with my beautiful and mighty hands, it jacks up the price. It is now unique, a one of a kind camera. Could you afford it ?

 

Seriously, I got it for a good price. I've got it refurbished from Adorama.

[lanman]

For $600 I can get the Canon XSI with the EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS Lens. $700 if I add the 50mm 1.8f II "Nifty Fifty" lens.

 

Where?? I can't seem to find the combo for a reasonable price, even though I can find just the body for around $500.

 

bob

[Boret]

Now I have to share my secrets!!!???

 

HERE $599

[Boret]

If you find the body for less than $500 you can get the kit lens for $99 HERE with free shipping

[amay121]

So which one did you get Boret?