Sph2sail March 16, 2003 Share March 16, 2003 Well, just got some MagTek ballasts and Coralife 10K mogule bulbs at the tank tour meeting. Now I need to finish the process... Ordered PFO Parallel reflectors w/cords and sockets from Premium Aquatics... $55.95 each. Now I need to set up a box for the ballasts. Where does one acquire Molex connectors to plug these standard cords into? Any issues in cooling the ballasts I should worry about? Fan? Heat sink? I sorta like the toolbox idea. Makes it look neater. Any issues w/electric code if I do this? Certainly the box needs to be fully grounded, etc. My hood is only a 4" tall deal. How much would folks recommend to raise it up from the tank surface for the new MH system? Too much fun ahead :D s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kimo March 16, 2003 Share March 16, 2003 You might be able to get one from PFO Or you can get one of the extension cords for their pendants and chop it up. They're $14-$15. Regardless, if you find a source, let me know! For the enclosure, circuit breaker boxes may work well. Keep us posted I'm SUPER interested in this. Thanks, Jamie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelg March 17, 2003 Share March 17, 2003 Steve- in all honesty, I think it's time to bust out the power tools and make a new canopy. You want them 8 inches or so above the water. I picked up some pretty quiet fans recently, and can give you the information. They are AC fans, and cost about $14 each. The link is in my hqi thread I believe. I am going to swing by my local electrical supply shop this week and see what I can find for ballast enclosures. I need one as well, and the toolbox is bigger than I need. There are places that have the male and female molex connectors- did you ask when you ordered the reflectors? They probably had them (I would call if you don't see them listed). Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest cbo March 17, 2003 Share March 17, 2003 I think radio shack used to carry molex connectors, check a store or their web site. As to a ballast enclosure, a bigger enclosure is less likely to cause heat related problems. I have been very happy with the $13 toolboxes from Home Depot. cbo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Marty March 17, 2003 Share March 17, 2003 I agree with Michael on this, strap on the tool belt and have at it. 4" is definitely too low. You could try to raise the hood you have, but it probably would look better just building a new one. You'll need much more cooling with the MH's than with the PC's. How do you like those Icecap fans? You may be able to keep them since they're variable, they'll just run faster. If you raise the hood, you can get the 4" fans instead also. Let me know when you plan on having the building party. :: mc Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sph2sail March 17, 2003 Author Share March 17, 2003 Right now, I'm planning on simply adding a riser to my existing hood, keeping the back open for ventilation, using the 3" icecap fans to cool it all. I was gonna measure to make the bulb about 12" off the water. Too high? Too low? I was also gonna make it so the front panel is hinged and opens, so I do not have to get in/out through the tank top. Those icecap fans were dead silent when first installed. About 3 months later, a little bit of the aircraft engine noise, but nothing big like the old radioshack fans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aquariareview March 18, 2003 Share March 18, 2003 You can get all of the connectors and boxes at Branch Electric (now called Rexell Electric and Datacon). They have several stores around the area. They have a large catalog (over 1000 pages) and if they don't have what you need in stock, they can get it overnight. A hint,,, fish places sell electric parts for about 3 times the price as going to a store like Branch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sph2sail March 21, 2003 Author Share March 21, 2003 Rexell does not have "Molex connectors." Radioshack doesn't have 'em either anymore. Rexell had pretty neat boxes.. $18 for 16x12x6 hinged box w/punch outs for connectors. Must be special ordered, w/2-3 wk delivery. SO... I ordered the female molex connectors w/pigtail from Premium Aquatics. They are mfg'd by PFO so you can retro an older ballast to the new connectors on their latest reflectors. $5/ea + shipping = $15.95. Wish I had ordered them WITH the reflectors to save that shipping cost. If I use a toolbox w/fan, can I safely use a plastic toolbox? Or is metal still recommended? Thinking that cutting in connectors, switches, fans, etc., is easier in plastic, and more corrosion resistant from being near SW environment. Toolboxes are larger 16x10x8 or so and priced in about $20. s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelg March 21, 2003 Share March 21, 2003 I don't think you need to worry about a fan on the box. I've never seen this done. You can pick up some aluminum heat sinks if you want, and should be more than sufficient. I wouldn't use a plastic box, personally. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sph2sail March 22, 2003 Author Share March 22, 2003 Metal box it is... Lying around the house has been my 13 year old 12volt Milwaukee driver drill box. It now has a new job! Added cooling fan 'cuz I have it and I felt it a good idea for longevity of the ballasts. Overkill? We'll see. Now I need to acquire some 4" cooling fans for my hood... Picked up 8' 16guage cords designed to replace power tool cords that are cut up for $6 ea at HD. Rated for 13Amps at 120V so I figured this will handle 250watts w/out hassle. Biggest expense was the hole saw for the 3" circle and the 7/8" bit for the strain relief connectors ($12 and $10 respectively). Can't really count that against this project, as its "reusable." :p Waiting on the pigtails w/Molex connectors from Premium Aquatics to fill the other two connectors, then I can wire things up. Total so far: $60 for two ballasts (thanks Aquariareview) $15 for two molex connector pigtails $2 for plug converter for 12v power supply to fan One trip to HD! (so far :D) s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sph2sail March 29, 2003 Author Share March 29, 2003 yipee... got the plug connector pigtails today. Wired it up, and both ballasts fired one of the Coralife bulbs just fine in one of the Mogul socketed reflectors. And I wasn't electrocuted! :D Now all I gotta do is re-configure my hood and hang 'em over the tank! Another step closer to MH nirvana... s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tgallo March 29, 2003 Share March 29, 2003 im glad those bulbs worked out for you, love your'e enclosure.and so would tim allen. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgasmd March 29, 2003 Share March 29, 2003 Now, let me ask this for anyone that may know the answer. Why is it that MH bulbs have to be 6-8" above the water?? The closer to the water, the higher the intensity of the light reaching the water. As a matter of fact, according to Sanjay if you double the distance to the water, you cut the intensity by half and vice versa. So, if you don't have water surface splasing, why not just hang the bulbs 2-3 inch from the water? So long as you have enough air circulation to keep things cool, why not?? Actually, I believe this is what Dr. Mac does in his holding and propagation tanks. Look at the pictures in his site and you'll see it. Alberto Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sph2sail March 30, 2003 Author Share March 30, 2003 Well, I could not figure out how to cut up the old hood and have it ready in a weekend to shift over to the new lighting system. Takes too long for carpentry and varnishing, etc. Soooo... I temp'd a frame to hang the lights from so I would have a week or more time to build the final hood. Actually, it is a real benefit. Lights are a bit higher than they probably should be, open air means less heat trapping. I now get to see placements, etc., and how to frame in the new supports for the reflectors. What I notice is that the 48"x18" width means there is an opportunity for a lot of air space that will be "trapped." I'll need a fan and exit in the top front to cool the air above the reflector, and a fan and exit along the reflector near the bulbs to blow air through, and possibly a fan or two behind the reflector. Hey MichaelG, where did you get those $14 4" quiet fans? Are they 110v or 12v? I'm gonna need some. s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sph2sail March 30, 2003 Author Share March 30, 2003 Now, let me ask this for anyone that may know the answer. Why is it that MH bulbs have to be 6-8" above the water?? The closer to the water, the higher the intensity of the light reaching the water. As a matter of fact, according to Sanjay if you double the distance to the water, you cut the intensity by half and vice versa. So, if you don't have water surface splasing, why not just hang the bulbs 2-3 inch from the water? So long as you have enough air circulation to keep things cool, why not?? Actually, I believe this is what Dr. Mac does in his holding and propagation tanks. Look at the pictures in his site and you'll see it. Alberto Currently, the top of the reflector is 12" above the top of the tank. That's about 13.5" above the surface of the water. The MH fixtures are about 3" lower, so they are about 10.5" above the water right now. The PC ultra actinics are about 7.5" above the water. The PC fixtures used to be 4" above the water, when I was running 2 96w Ultra daylight and 2 96w ultra actinics. First, I think for me the key will be HEAT management. If I can figure a way to really move air through safely and QUIETLY, I may lower the lamps. Second, I need access through a front door panel to service the tank. If I lower the lamps, the reflectors come down too far and I can not access rock/coral/fish/powerheads/whatever from the front of the tank w/out lifting the whole setup somehow. As for light intensity, I'm a diver who loves UW photography. The truly intense lighting only happens between 11am and 1pm. After that, you still need to light your subjects in 30' water with strobes, or the images don't work well. I believe at this time I am really on the high side of lighting. My objectives in this project were twofold: 1 - point source lighting to cause the rippling effect, and 2 - light spectrum improvement and the 10k color temp. I think these lamps put out broader spectrum than do the PC bulbs. I wish Sanjay had tested them to prove me right or wrong on this. What say y'all? I've now got a week or two before I need to finalize all this with the new hood. Help Please! s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelg March 31, 2003 Share March 31, 2003 Alberto- I think you have it covered as to why the recommended height- Heat, water splashing, and access. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sph2sail April 1, 2003 Author Share April 1, 2003 Unbelievable. I have both 250W MH's running full up, along with the PC ultra actinics. Enter the sun about 11am. Blows away the amount of light sent into the tank via the MH's. Certainly suggests that with artificial lighting, you can't get too much. My guess, the light we generate is about what would happen to the reef at 30-40' range, now that I see this comparison. Zounds. :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sph2sail May 10, 2003 Author Share May 10, 2003 Finally finished this project! Here's the final, wired tool box enclosure. Note that I did put a 3" fan in this box. I must say it is VERY important, as the wiring coming into the box is NOT temperature rated, meaning if it gets hot, it melts and you have a real problem. I added two toggle switches so I can turn off power to the ballasts externally w/out unplugging them. My lighting now goes roughly as follows: 1. PC Ultra Actinics on at 8:30am 2. MH.A (not w/fan) on at 9:00am 3. MH.B (with fan) on at 10:00am 4. MH.A off at 7:30pm 5. MS.B off at 8:30pm 6. PC Ultra Actinics off at 9:00pm I decided to wire the 12v transformer directly into one of the ballast feed and use it as the second lamp so that it cools during both ballast on and at the end of cycle. Notice to the left of the box that the molex connector female pigtail was only about 3" long. HD supplies 18guage rubberized 3-conductor wiring. Both of them now have a 5' extension added. Made wiring into the box easier and solved the problem of 8'cords being too short off the PFO Parallel reflectors. Here is the mounting onto the stand. Now the dog's tails and kids running around can't knock them over and destroy the world... Now I gots ta build that hood! s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest tgallo May 16, 2003 Share May 16, 2003 dude, i hate to tell you this but , your'e flirting with disaster. i wouldent mount the ballast's on the side of the tank , and bellow water level, you crack me up. :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sph2sail December 5, 2003 Author Share December 5, 2003 Ok, for those who have seen my tank languish in temporary hood H-E-double hockey sticks since March 30, 2003, I am now the proud papa of a Turkey Day project... I finally built the hood and installed it yesterday. Tada!!!! It lowers the lights about 1.5" further, so the MH lamps are now about 7" off the water and the PC's are about 4" off the water. You will notice silver corner posts on top of the hood. These will connect to a set of four stainless steel wires that go to the ceiling above the hood. They have these neat-o jam sliders available so I can lift the hood up and hang it over the tank to service it easily! I'm installing them tonight. More pics when that last tidbit is done. s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gatortailale December 5, 2003 Share December 5, 2003 Connecting your wires - that should take another 8 months :p Can you use duct tape until the wires are connected? :D Just kidding. Nice work. Can't wait to see it in person. big dog Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sph2sail December 5, 2003 Author Share December 5, 2003 dude, i hate to tell you this but , your'e flirting with disaster. i wouldent mount the ballast's on the side of the tank , and bellow water level, you crack me up. :D You raise a good point. Except that everything electrical is under or next to my tank. I do not have a separate room to move stuff into, so it's all ready for the flood from H-E-double hockey sticks. All is on a GFCI, so shorts should bring electicity out of the question quickly. Equipment damage is real, tho. Any ideas when space is limited like this? If I put the ballasts under the tank, too much heat. I also have a Little Giant 2mdx exposed under there as well. Vigilance against plugged lines and good maintenance should help, but I'm at a loss what to do beyond what I have done so far. s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sph2sail December 6, 2003 Author Share December 6, 2003 So here's the final deal... WahOOOO! Given that the front rails of the PFO Parallel reflectors are only 4" above the water, even my skinny arms can't fit in under 'em to do maintenance. Look at the middle image above and you will see what I mean. Lights are too low. So... Install a cable hanging system, and voila! You can lift and lower the hood to whatever the need is for whatever maintenance is required! Check this out... Down and fully sitting on the tank... Raised 6" over tank for easy access... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sph2sail December 6, 2003 Author Share December 6, 2003 Oh yeah... only the actinics were on for these photos, hence night time blues... s Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GaryL December 8, 2003 Share December 8, 2003 dude, i hate to tell you this but , your'e flirting with disaster. i wouldent mount the ballast's on the side of the tank , and bellow water level, you crack me up. :D You raise a good point. Except that everything electrical is under or next to my tank. I do not have a separate room to move stuff into, so it's all ready for the flood from H-E-double hockey sticks. All is on a GFCI, so shorts should bring electicity out of the question quickly. Equipment damage is real, tho. Any ideas when space is limited like this? If I put the ballasts under the tank, too much heat. I also have a Little Giant 2mdx exposed under there as well. Vigilance against plugged lines and good maintenance should help, but I'm at a loss what to do beyond what I have done so far. s What if you put the ballast directly in the middle on top and build a wood box shaped in a "u" to hide the red, if there is sufficient support also being that close you could shorten your cords.... It looks great though! Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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