Jamie McD February 13, 2009 Share February 13, 2009 Ok, so some of you all convinced me. I'm going to try the jump from freshwater to salt, starting with a fish only tank and slowly moving to FOWLR and then reef. I'm working with what I have now and will slowly replace it as I find good deals. I know a lot of people are going to pounce on things, but I would really appreciate feedback. Here's my proposed set-up based on what I can afford now: 10g tank Overflow box 18g rubbermaid sump Trickle filter with open-cell foam cylinders, 150w heater, and submersible pump Glass top with one 22W t-8 bulb and two 25W incandescent bulbs "dead" sand substrate with base rock (I'll add live of both later) Tap water treated with AmQuel+ I just want to keep a single clownfish. The real fun will come with the inverts later on. Some help I know I need: Any suggestions on the size of submersible pump and size of the tubing? What color temp for the lighting given what I have to work with (1 t-8 and 2 incandescents) I've got some crushed shell substrate, but I assume I won't need that until I add inverts. Is that right? Oh, and I'm in Manassas, so our tap water is: Silvex (ppb) .7 Alpha Emitters (pCi/L) 1.0 Barium (ppm) 0.035 Beta/Photon Emitters (pCi/L) 3.3 Chlorine (ppm) 2.93 Combined Radium (pCi/L) 0.3 Fluoride (ppm) 0.9 Haloacetic Acids [HAA] (ppb) 36 Nitrate (ppm) 0.8 TTHMs [Total Trihalomethanes] (ppb) 40 Copper (ppm) 0.38 Lead (ppb) 2 I appreciate all the help! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FishyTim February 13, 2009 Share February 13, 2009 Do yourself a couple favors... Buy some nice live rock, you only need a 10-15 pounds worth... Buy a RO/DI unit, you can get one used for a decent amount... If you want inverts, that copper in the water wont help.... with only 10 gallons, water quality is important.... Go cheap now and you'll spend way more in the long run.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Ward February 13, 2009 Share February 13, 2009 +1 on what FishyTim said. If you want inverts and/or corals in the future you need to start with RO/DI. The copper in your water will be absorbed by the rock you have and then it will leach back into the water later. The copper will kill all your inverts and corals. This is also true if you think you want an anemone. The lights you have will be fine for fish only or FOWLR. BTW, you'll want to go with FOWLR to start. The bacteria that makes the rock live process the ammonia to nitrite and nitrate. Ammonia is bad for the fish's gills and will kill them so you have to make sure that gets processed out. Also, in Manassas they use Chloramine - chlorine with an ammonia ion bonded to it. So when you treat to remove the chlorine you'll break that bond and cause free ammonia in the water. Another reason for an RO/DI unit. As to the questions you first asked: Pump will depend on your head pressure. Look at how much head you have and size your pump accordingly. If your sump is on the floor and the tank is up off the floor, then I'm guessing a Mag 5 or so should be about right. Tubing size, go for about 3/4" ID tubing. Don't put in the crushed shells, stick with the sand. The shells will trap detritus which will break down and produce nitrates and contribute to nuisance algaes. Put the sand in while you cycle - you don't want to add any substrate after you have fish in the tank. The light spectrum - 10k is the baseline to help prevent nuisance algae growth. Your incandescent lights and your strip light are likely in the 6400k range which is prime for algae growth. Also look at a HOB skimmer. It will do wonders for your water quality and cut down on the maintenance you have to do. Hope that helps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k February 13, 2009 Share February 13, 2009 (edited) Here's an easier, more logical way: 10 gallon tank Bio-wheel or Whisper filter (hang on back style) No need to go with overflow boxes as they always fail and sometimes cause floods and ruined floors. 150w heater Twin tube light hood ( I assume you're using AGA ) with 1 actinic and 1 50/50. Stay away from incandescent bulbs- they add unwanted heat and don't come in any reef spectrums. R/O water from the grocery store. Whole Foods sells it or if you can't get R/O, use Deer Park bottled water. No need to buy an RO/DI unit just yet. It's way more economical to buy RO water from the grocery store for a 10 gallon tank. My friend has a 12 gallon Aquapod (hint,hint) and he uses RO water from Whole Foods at 1.19/gal. 20-30# of WAMAS brand liverock and 20-30# of WAMAS brand livesand. Instant Ocean salt and a MarineDepot refractometer. When you decide to go full-blown reef, you can use this set-up as a good quarantine tank. You can always find a WAMAS brand drilled acrylic tank later on for the reef. Edited February 13, 2009 by zygote2k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ctenophore February 13, 2009 Share February 13, 2009 Here's an easier, more logical way:10 gallon tank Bio-wheel or Whisper filter (hang on back style) No need to go with overflow boxes as they always fail and sometimes cause floods and ruined floors. 150w heater Twin tube light hood ( I assume you're using AGA ) with 1 actinic and 1 50/50. Stay away from incandescent bulbs- they add unwanted heat and don't come in any reef spectrums. R/O water from the grocery store. Whole Foods sells it or if you can't get R/O, use Deer Park bottled water. No need to buy an RO/DI unit just yet. It's way more economical to buy RO water from the grocery store for a 10 gallon tank. My friend has a 12 gallon Aquapod (hint,hint) and he uses RO water from Whole Foods at 1.19/gal. 20-30# of WAMAS brand liverock and 20-30# of WAMAS brand livesand. Instant Ocean salt and a MarineDepot refractometer. When you decide to go full-blown reef, you can use this set-up as a good quarantine tank. You can always find a WAMAS brand drilled acrylic tank later on for the reef. +1 for all of this. cheap and easy. You should consider an extra small propeller pump for water flow, like a Korallia nano. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FishyTim February 13, 2009 Share February 13, 2009 Thats not a bad setup and would be a good hospital tank in the future.. That being said, I would still look for a used RO/DI unit, just makes things easier and you will use it in the future.. Here's an easier, more logical way:10 gallon tank Bio-wheel or Whisper filter (hang on back style) No need to go with overflow boxes as they always fail and sometimes cause floods and ruined floors. 150w heater Twin tube light hood ( I assume you're using AGA ) with 1 actinic and 1 50/50. Stay away from incandescent bulbs- they add unwanted heat and don't come in any reef spectrums. R/O water from the grocery store. Whole Foods sells it or if you can't get R/O, use Deer Park bottled water. No need to buy an RO/DI unit just yet. It's way more economical to buy RO water from the grocery store for a 10 gallon tank. My friend has a 12 gallon Aquapod (hint,hint) and he uses RO water from Whole Foods at 1.19/gal. 20-30# of WAMAS brand liverock and 20-30# of WAMAS brand livesand. Instant Ocean salt and a MarineDepot refractometer. When you decide to go full-blown reef, you can use this set-up as a good quarantine tank. You can always find a WAMAS brand drilled acrylic tank later on for the reef. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Grenier February 13, 2009 Share February 13, 2009 Just something else to consider: smaller <> easier, argueably jut the opposite. If you can go bigger, like a 29, do it. The used HOB skimmer is a great idea. Adding a little live and and some live rock to the base/dry stuff is a great idea too. I'll give you a cup full with spaghetti worms and micro-life to kick-start your system. I'm also in Manassas if you ever want to talk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishcam February 13, 2009 Share February 13, 2009 Just something else to consider: smaller <> easier, argueably jut the opposite. If you can go bigger, like a 29, do it. The used HOB skimmer is a great idea. Adding a little live and and some live rock to the base/dry stuff is a great idea too. I'll give you a cup full with spaghetti worms and micro-life to kick-start your system. I'm also in Manassas if you ever want to talk. Id also just skip the 10 and go with a 20 or 29, unless floorspace is a premium. Keep your same setup, more water vol just makes things easier to deal with, plus you can add a 2nd fish later. I came up with a list of the ultimate low cost basic reef once, but I cant seem to find it... it was essentially this (I hope it helps): 20g tank with two HOB AquaClear Filters (say, 70's or 110's if you find them used) for flow. A bag-o-sand (Petsmart had 30lbs for 15 bucks early this week) some LR, to your taste Soon you'll be adding an ACIII in no time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k February 13, 2009 Share February 13, 2009 You could always go for the tried and true: 12 gallon Aquapod. Add water, salt, fish. Voila! No need for a skimmer either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FishyTim February 13, 2009 Share February 13, 2009 till he decides to do the 101 mods you can find online... You could always go for the tried and true: 12 gallon Aquapod. Add water, salt, fish. Voila! No need for a skimmer either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gsedlack February 13, 2009 Share February 13, 2009 It all depends on what you are trying to accomplish in this hobby, but if you are try for "easy" to see if you like it then I would suggest a 20 or 29 gal with 1 or 2 HOB filters and a cheap HOB skimmer. You get get all that stuff sued on WAMAS. You need to cycle the tank so you have time to get the stuff you want. Add some live rock and sand to base rock and sand to taste. A few of the LFS will sell pre-mixed saltwater for $1.50/gal or so - Not bad to start You can also get some free "crap" corals like kenya trees and xenia and GSP if you want to a nice little Compact florescent light might be great as well enjoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smoothtriqueter February 13, 2009 Share February 13, 2009 Well I will start of with saying you are already on the right path by asking and planning before startling. I would a agree with some of what people have said, go FOWLR first w/ the sand also. The copper isn't going to help w/ anything! And because nobody has said anything yet...... Take 20$ and buy a WAMAS membership before you do ANYTHING. it will open you up to membership discussions (tons of info) and the for sale forum where everything is the best price. Good luck, welcome to WAMAS and the marine world.............TAKE YOUR TIME! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie McD February 14, 2009 Author Share February 14, 2009 Heh. Yeah, I'll definitely be joining WAMAS. And if you guys consider kenya trees and xenia to be crap corals, then can I go through your garbage? I'm easily amused. As I PMed to Larry, I do have an extra 30g tank collecting dust, but I've been hesitant to use it because I can't afford the lighting at this point, although I do already have the lights mentioned above for the 10G. (I was really annoyed when what I thought was a second strip light turned out to be incandescents.) I do plan to keep an eye out for cheap live rock and sand. As to what I'm trying to accomplish in this hobby: Right now I want a cheap start. I've loved marine life all my life (why, oh why, didn't I major in marine biology when I had a chance?) so I know I'll want to keep trying new things (clams! sea horses! octopuses!) as time goes by -- but as freshwater fishkeeping has taught me, you have to get your feet wet first. Oh, and is this a universal condemnation of overflow boxes? It seemed like the smartest option outside of drilling a tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k February 14, 2009 Share February 14, 2009 Why not drill the 30 and use the 10 as a sump? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zotzer February 14, 2009 Share February 14, 2009 Years ago, before I got into this hobby myself, I set up a "nemo" tank for my nephew/godson. Little Nemo and Dory (a blue damsel) lived for years, in a little boy's room, without too much maintenance. They may have lived longer than 5-6 years if any of us knew what we were doing. Heck.... "serious" hobbyists go through fish more rapidly. I've certainly lost more than two fish in a much shorter timeframe. It was a 10g set up with whatever standard hood/light came with it, sand, and a biowheel filter. It even had (gasp) a plastic martian-like little cave, which was replaced over the years with a shipwreck, shark head, etc.... (whenever it got too yucky for my sister in law to want to clean it) LOL Heck, I use PVC tubes in my QT....a plastic shark head is more interesting. LOL We added a few snails and hermits for clean up and added interest. Then, when you have the resources to really launch into the hobby, you can just use the 10G for a QT. Tracy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie McD February 14, 2009 Author Share February 14, 2009 Why not drill the 30 and use the 10 as a sump? Eventually I may, but right now I have the aforementioned lighting ($$$$$) problem. I have no light at all for the 30. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k February 15, 2009 Share February 15, 2009 If you are doing fish only, how about a $20 t-12 fixture from Home Depot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jamie McD February 15, 2009 Author Share February 15, 2009 If you are doing fish only, how about a $20 t-12 fixture from Home Depot? Well, sure. I was under the impression, however, that shop lights don't last long with an aquarium. Friend of mine who does freshwater (60+ tanks) tried using shop lights and they failed on him frequently. I'd expect it to be even more common with salt water. There's also the problem of where to hang a shop light since I have yet to convince the wife that our extra room should be a fish room. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zygote2k February 16, 2009 Share February 16, 2009 There used to be a saltwater wholesaler in Alexandria back in the day that used shop lights exclusively over his plywood and glass holding tanks. They worked fine for more than 10 years. Just don't splash water on them. Or any other lights for that matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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