Looking at setting up a large tank

[MBVette]

Hello, this is my first post here so please bear with me. I also posted this on the reef central board, but then saw the message to post here instead.

 

I am opening up a day care center in a few months and was hoping to be able to put a large reef tank in the lobby. Myself and my brother have done smaller scale reef tanks (less than 100 gallons) but this tank is going to take a bit more to setup.

 

The area we are looking to put a tank in is 7' wide and currently set for 18'' deep but can push it to about 24''. The area currently is blank floor to ceiling, so there is plenty of room for the setup. We will have a custom cabinet built in around the tank to make it look correct also.

 

I received a quote from a local shop that does setups and maintenance for the aquarium setup, live rock, and sand. The quote came out to approx 8k including install and tax.

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks

 

Here is the quote

 

[amay121]

MBVette,

 

Prices seem about right for "retail" prices. Would I pay this much, probably not since I'm a stinking cheap skate. If it were me, try PM (Private Messaging) AQUACO first. I bet you he can cut you a way better deal, and include some live stock as well.

[DJBoy98]

Since you have set up reef tanks before, why don't you save money and do it yourself then hire a service to do the maintance?

 

Buy the tank local and everything else online.

[Brian Ward]

Hello, this is my first post here so please bear with me. I also posted this on the reef central board, but then saw the message to post here instead.

 

I am opening up a day care center in a few months and was hoping to be able to put a large reef tank in the lobby. Myself and my brother have done smaller scale reef tanks (less than 100 gallons) but this tank is going to take a bit more to setup.

 

The area we are looking to put a tank in is 7' wide and currently set for 18'' deep but can push it to about 24''. The area currently is blank floor to ceiling, so there is plenty of room for the setup. We will have a custom cabinet built in around the tank to make it look correct also.

 

I received a quote from a local shop that does setups and maintenance for the aquarium setup, live rock, and sand. The quote came out to approx 8k including install and tax.

 

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

 

Thanks

 

Here is the quote

 

 

What do you want to keep in the aquarium? If you want to do SPS or some of the more demaning LPS, I think some of your equipment is lacking. For this type of setup, I'll go over my thoughts:

AG 210 aquarium - this is acceptable, but you may want to consider an alternative if this is an in-wall setup. One of the guys in the club has a Starfire glass front and fiberglass tank. Much lighter and easier to install than an all glass tank of this size. If you go custom manufacture you can get whatever dimensions you want as well.

Glass versa hood - this is the versa top for the AG 210 aquarium. I don't know why you would want this. Yes, it will enclose the tank but it will also significantly cut the amount of light going in. Since this sounds like an in-wall w/ enclosed fish room behind it, I would pass on these.

Mega flow kits - these are the durso drains and return plumbing. $60/ea is actually a fair price though I think it's insanely expensive given what you get for it. I recommend building your own.

Sump - $500 seems expensive to me. You can pick up a used 75 gal tank full of scratches off craigslist and modify for baffles pretty easily. I think you can actually get a custom acrylic sump about this size for $500.

Skimmer - not even close to what I would recommend for this tank. EV-180 will be way undersized and you will fight hair algae forever unless you're only planning to put a handful of fish in the tank. Go with a bubble king, reeflo, deltec or similar that is oversized for the size of the tank.

Mag 18 Pump - way undersized for the tank. I would recommend a reeflo barracuda as a minimum. This requires external plumbing because it isn't submersible, but it will serve you much better in the long run.

Lights - these look good and suggest that you want to do corals. If you're not going to do SPS, you should consider T5 lighting. It runs cooler and uses less energy. I don't see any actinic supplements. This is personal preference, but most prefer a bluer color and supplement.

Fans - 3 4" fans for $170? I see there's "custom mounting" in there, but really? These fans go for about $40/ea (I think even that's on the high side). $50 in labor for mounting seems high depending on what exactly they're going to do.

Mag Drive 1200 - I think he means maxijet 1200s here. $100/ea! Again, seems quite overpriced even with the flow upgrade. I would recommend controllable Tunze pumps instead or a closed loop system. The closed loop is my preferred method because it is almost invisible in the tank. I don't like the look of extra pumps hanging on all the walls.

Tunze Wave Box - Unnecessary if you get the tunze pumps or a closed loop system. Overall the tunze pumps or closed loop with an ocean's motions will be cheaper than the maxijets and the tunze wave box.

Heaters - heaters are good. check the price since everything else seems horribly expensive.

Live Rock - definitely necessary. $7.49/lb is absolutely ridiculous. I assume there's a labor charge rolled in for aquascaping, but $6.99/lb is the retail store price and you can get it down to about $3/lb if you mail-order. 225 lbs is on the low side depending on what kind of rock. More pourous rock is lighter so you need fewer pounds of it.

Sand - looks good here. make sure they use a couple bags of the wet live sand to seed the sand bed.

Plumbing Supplies - looks like a good estimate of what they'll need.

Labor - probably a good labor price for setup. It'll take a couple of guys a full day to do everything. But since the labor charge is here, the way overpriced other items don't seem appropriate.

 

Just my $0.02.

[extreme_tooth_decay]

I agree with everything Brian said.

 

My eye immediately goes to the Live Rock. Those prices, while common in fancy retail stores, are crazy. I just sold over 100 lbs of nice stuff with corals for $2.25/lb average (some for $2, some for $2.50, and I always gave extras).

 

Even at $3/lb, you could save $1000 buying at this price and end up with nicer stuff. LR is very often sold here at $3 or less per pound, and in good quantities.

Right now I see 1 person selling 75 lbs for $2.50/lb and someone else selling an undisclosed amount for $2.50/lb. Probably a lot because it's an entire tank breakdown.

tim

Edited December 23, 2008 by extreme_tooth_decay

[dbartco]

-where are you located, could help with store recommendations

- wavebox OK, but would go with 2 vorteks, or closed loop with wavemaker. ( have a wavebox, just ok...)

 

otherwise, standard retail. You could save, IF that is where you want to spend your time.

 

Also, you may want to consider cost of livestock. And the $20 you should spend to become a member. On this size, you are gauranteed to get that back in return. May also want to increase skimmer if you plan on a lot of "reef". But if staying simple, should be ok.

[Brian Ward]

oh, and with that setup as listed, you'll need a chiller. The mag 18 combined with the MH lighting will drive your temp way up and the fans won't keep up. I also don't see an RO/DI system listed. You'll want to install one of those with the tank so you have topoff water readily available.

There are quite a few vendors that do complete service in the area. Be sure to talk to all of them so you get the best price. I can guess which one this is from, but check out AquaCo, Reef eScape (?) Grav on the board, and Scales TFW in MD.

 

edit: I would highly recommend a kalk stirrer as well. dosing kalk seems to be the best way to keep the pH up and phosphates down.

Edited December 23, 2008 by Brian Ward

[jason the filter freak]

Brian pretty much nailed it.

 

I noticed they didn't list things like timers, power strips, gcfi, breaker box (may not be necessary at all), I would considering getting other quotes

 

You aren't the person I spoke to at Pet Smart are you?

 

Any which way this go I'd really really recommend spending the $20 to join the club. WELCOME

[dschflier]

I am not sure where you live but I live in Alexandria an you could have a good opportunity to watch my setup if you would like.

 

about a month ago my 210 started leaking so I bought a new one.

 

I am hoping to finally finish the stand today and will be placing the tank on it and over the next couple of weeks putting back all the livestock and corals. If you want to come by when I am working on my tank feel free. The sump and all the other equipment I have is running to keep my other tanks which are holding my fish and corals healthy. I would be happy to explain to you my setup and how it works.

 

If you are interested send me a PM and I will send you my phone number and address.

 

David

[MBVette]

Just found this place today, and it has been great so far and I will probably become a member.

 

The daycare is going to be located in South Riding and I live out it Haymarket.

 

The setup will be basically in kinda an alcove in the lobby of the daycare. Originally it was going to be a closet but we decided to put a tank there. We have built in the plans all of the outlets and GFI's needed for this. Everything for the tank needs to fit in a 7' wide area that is 18-24'' deep and the area is open floor to ceiling. We will have our carpenter create a stand/hood/enclosure for the unit.

[DJBoy98]

Cool. I live in SR. Where will the day care located?

[MBVette]

Cool. I live in SR. Where will the day care located?

 

corner of Elk Lick & Rt 50 in front of the car wash. Right now you can see the construction going on.

[ROBZ]

Just my 2 cents, i would change now that you are in the planning stage... i would go 240 Wide 72 x 30 x 25 easier access than the 29 high

 

and for the same money....

Edited December 23, 2008 by ROBZ

[Antiguan]

corner of Elk Lick & Rt 50 in front of the car wash. Right now you can see the construction going on.

 

I am close by also - near 50 and Gum Springs. I'll drop by if you're ever around.

 

Trevor

[ctenophore]

Welcome to WAMAS!

 

I agree with several above that you would do well to get a few more quotes first. That isn't bad equipment or a terrible price, but I think if you had a few more quotes from the organizations listed above, you might get a better setup for equal or possibly less money. I also agree that you'll need a chiller with that setup, unless you keep your air temp in the high 60's year round. A reverse osmosis setup for freshwater replacement is also a good thing to have.

 

I own a company that does reef setups and maintenance, but in FL not up here. So I am familiar with equipment choices that are good for your situation. Feel free to email or PM me if you would like to bounce any other questions or quotes off of me.

 

Justin

[Jon Lazar]

MBVette,

 

The most fundamental decision you need to make is why you want to put a reef aquarium in your business? If it's to make the place more interesting to your customers, both kids and their parents, then I say a low-tech, easy maintenance, non-sps tank is the best bet. The kids will be just as captivated by the movement and colors of "easy" corals like frogspawn, leather corals, bright GSP, xenia, mushrooms, and zoanthids. You won't need metal halide lights, a chiller, a kalkstirrer, calcium reactor, massive skimmer, dehumidifier, or any of the other "extras" we all love to tinker with. You will have fewer problems with nuisance algae if you're not blasting your tank with banks of 400W metal halide lights. These corals are also more adaptable to changes in water conditions, so you're less likely to end up with a tank full of white skeletons. The most common and difficult to eradicate pests are associated with sps corals (red bugs, AEFWs, montipora-eating nudibranchs); another reason for staying away from them in a business environment.

 

I think you're going to want to spend most of your time (and money) on your new business, not tending a new, large, complicated sps reef tank. A tank with soft corals and some easy LPS corals are your best bet, and clearly make the best business case.

 

Jon

[guppychao]

agree with what everyone has stated, just wanted to add one more thing, since it will be in a day care, i would think about acrylic instead of glass due to kids throwing things at it.

[ctenophore]

Jon's advice is good. Re: metal halides, I have found that most of our customers in FL have either initially or eventually upgraded to metal halide or at least a quality T5 florescent setup for one main reason: they want to have an anemone for their clownfish. Not all have needed a chiller though, mainly because we used very low heat transferring pumps and good ventilation. You certainly wouldn't need 400w bulbs, but in order to keep an anemone looking great in a 30" tall tank, you will need at least 250w bulbs or 175w bulbs with good T5 supplementation. Also, having strong lighting over a reef focuses visitors' attention on the tank, making it the focal point of a room. Easy to keep corals are a very good idea for a reef aquarium in a business, and they look much better when lit up with a quality light system.

 

Agreed that you don't need all of the gadgets like a kalk reactor (too much chance for disaster), calcium reactor, monster skimmer, etc.

 

You might want to look into small fluidized media filters, for carbon and/or phosphate removing media. Or at least plan on a mesh bag of each in the sump.

[Grav]

Opening ANY quote up for review here is prolly going to create more questions and concerns than it answeres. No two people will plan an aquarium the same way, but if you take input from several sources you could get into a "too many chefs" situation. I could pick apart any plan, and I'm sure most folks here would suggest changes to any plan I put forward.

 

Any good service provider is going to have equipment and processes that they have found work well for them. For example, if I was going to spend $700 on water movement I'd go with Tunze pumps and a tunze controller... I think the wave box takes up too much space, so I've never used one, they could be fantastic for all I know.

 

I don't see anything "WRONG" with what is there, but I would do a number of things differently. Better skimmer, different lights (depending on what you plan to keep) you are going to need an RO/DI at some point, so not including it up front is a little weird. You are starting a long term relationship with whoever you choose so you want to choose well.