Kalk Question

[Neal]

Ok, so I recently changed out my 33G cube with a nice 20G sump to a 34G Solara all in one. It is very nice but I have no idea how to dose kalk into an all in one. I would like to not have to build some kind of crazy extension to the very nice stand and tank.

 

Can someone remind me why I can not add Kalk directly into my top-off water?

 

Thanks for the help and ideas....

[Grav]

You can.

 

As long as you let it settle and add it in small amounts and into the filtersection of the flow.

 

That said, I don't suggest it as a good idea. On a tank that size, you are better off with any of the 2-part or 3-part systems. The cost savings vrs higher risk on a system so small are not worth it IMHO.

[dschflier]

Grav, What do you consider the risk with using Kalk as opposed to 2 parts?

[Sikryd]

Grav, What do you consider the risk with using Kalk as opposed to 2 parts?

 

I am going to take a guess and help answer this question. With kalk it is pretty easy to overdose on such a small tank, whereas you have a little more control with measuring precise amounts with the 2-part. In such a small system, with adding kalk through the top-off I don't think you can match the consistancy that adding a 2-part daily will provide.

 

Just my $.03

Edited October 28, 2008 by Sikryd

[Highland Reefer]

Kalk has a high pH and you will have to dose it in small amounts directly into your tank over the course of a day or the pH will rise to quickly. Otherwise it is a good way to go.

 

"How to Select a Calcium and Alkalinity Supplementation Scheme" by Randy Holmes-Farley: http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/feb2003/chem.htm

Edited October 28, 2008 by Highland Reefer

[gastone]

Neal,

 

I run my kalk through a "Chippenstein" kalk reactor. Even utilizing a dosing pump I've encountered kalk mishaps. There are people who add kalk directly through their top off and swear by it. I've done that also when my reactor pump has frozen and didn't suffer any ill effects (again, my top off is via doser). What is your evap like, or what do you figure it to be like. My suggestion would be to adjust your top off resevoir to hold enough to replenish 3 days or so of top off. That way if there is a malfunction (there will be at some point), you will only dump in a few gallons of saturated kalk, as opposed to having a thirty gallon resevoir on a 30 gallon tank.

 

I don't know which link Cliff sent you, I figure it's probably Dr. Randy (knowing Cliff propensity to read good material). He adds his kalk directly to his top off. Good stuff, good read.

 

Garrett.

[Brian Ward]

The solana is open top and metal halide. I somewhat disagree with the others in that I think you'll get enough evaporation. You would definitely require a dosing pump and you won't be able to gravity feed your topoff+kalk. Then, making sure you only take effluent from a kalk stirrer becomes a potential problem. I suppose you could set up a kalk stirrer, add your topoff water through that, allowing the effluent to overflow into another countainer where a dosing pump such as a peristalic or aqualifter could pump it up into the tank. Timing from a controller would be key, and the secondary reservior would act as a safety net to be sure you don't overdose. I like that kalk binds up the phosphates in the tank, but I think 2-part would just be easier for you.

[MisterTang]

Back when I first started my 10g, I was looking into dosing kalk, and the LFS recommended I not do it, and use something more 'dilute' instead, to prevent major shifts. Kalk is potent stuff in 100 gallons, let alone a little 30. Instead, he suggested a product called Elemental Reef Building by Brightwell. This stuff has bits of everything you need - like magnesium, calcium, kalk - but it's in a lower concentration so it has more of a subtle affect on water chemistry. I swear by this stuff now - I used it when I started my big tank, and I had corraline growing within a week. I still use it because I don't want to muck with a complex dosing regimen. It's very safe stuff, and a $12 container of it has lasted me half a year, and is on track to go another 6 months, so it's probably cheaper than two-part.

 

Just my .02

[rrubberbandman]

I drip kalk with a kent aqua dripper into my 20 gallon......with no ill issues.....i do however have a pinpoint ph monitor to observe while i do this.

[onux20]

I have the Solana and I dose kalk nightly. Here's how I roll....

 

The Solana comes with two top off bottles.

I top off three times a day, mornining, when I get home from work (5pm-ish) and before I go to bed, usually not required but makes me feel better in case I forget in the morning.

Before I go to bed, I make sure the top-off reservoir is full. I do this by filling the top off bottles with RO/DI then inserting them as prescribed until they are no longer adding water to reservoir.

From there I take one bottle (usually empty) and fill it about half way with RO/DI and the rest with premixed Kalk. The reason I switched to half is the full bottle proved to be too much. (it would precipitate out in the sump section)

My next batch of kalk I will mix the Kalk with half the recommended amount and go with the full bottle and see what happens.

 

That's it.

 

I am not saying its perfect but it works for me. I do have a problem maintaining Alk. Trying to combat that with just adding 1 part of B-ionic. Not sure where my ph is since my monitor called it quits a few weeks ago. I have seen decent growth from my sps. But I have lost a few too...

 

That's how I do it. If you have any more questions about the Solana let me know. RC also has a dedicated Forum for Solana owners

 

Ron

[gastone]

I use a dosing pump that I wouldn't recommend (the aquamedic triple doser). The problem that I've encountered is back-siphoning. Two solutions (neither of which is ideal) are to use a check valve (guaranteed to fail at some point) and to keep the feed line from actually entering the body of water you are intending to fill (again, guaranteed to back siphon at some point). Of course keeping it out of the water means you are going to have to deal with kalk buildup/precipitate which could clog the line.

 

I'm sure you can negate this buy buying a good peristalitic pump (unlike me), finding a good check valve (good luck with that one), and/or doing regular maintenance to make sure that the supply long doesn't get clogged.

 

G.

[Origami]

I use a dosing pump that I wouldn't recommend (the aquamedic triple doser). The problem that I've encountered is back-siphoning. Two solutions (neither of which is ideal) are to use a check valve (guaranteed to fail at some point) and to keep the feed line from actually entering the body of water you are intending to fill (again, guaranteed to back siphon at some point). Of course keeping it out of the water means you are going to have to deal with kalk buildup/precipitate which could clog the line.

 

I'm sure you can negate this buy buying a good peristalitic pump (unlike me), finding a good check valve (good luck with that one), and/or doing regular maintenance to make sure that the supply long doesn't get clogged.

 

G.

 

Garrett, what about putting a siphon break on one side (output side) of the dosing pump to prevent the back siphoning situation that you describe? It seems that a tee with some hose that rises above either container's max fill level would address the problem. Also, isn't the Aqua Medic Triple Doser a peristaltic pump? Do you just need a different sized or new tubing? Why are you getting back-siphoning?

[gastone]

Tom,

 

never thought about using a siphon break on the output as you describe. That's why I'm glad I'm a member of WAMAS, all you smart guys make my life easier.

 

The aquamedic is a peristaltic, but it has design flaws and doesn't work very well, which causes the back siphoning at times... If I ever got another I'd go with the litermeter or a medical grade dosing pump.

 

G.

[Neal]

Wow, thanks for all of the great advice. I am going to recount what I have heard and put it into my own language to make sure I do not mess it up.

 

I am using a 5G tank as my top-off water. It sits in my cabinet. (Which only has a very small amount of space. ) Currently I am using a MJ1200 as my top-off pump. Using the MJ pump would be a terrible thing because it would add too much kalk at once and create a huge PH spike in my tank. I could get a dosing pump but even then there seems to be some type of material that will collect at the top of the Top-off water that is bad. What if I added a dosing pump and got a MJ1200 to constantly mix the water?

 

Ok, onto two part dosing. What would happen if I added the dosing materials directly to my top off water when I made it. Put a power head and there to mix it around. My 5G tank seems to last between 10-14 days. If I put all of the 2-part that I would need for 8-10 days, so that I do not over-dose the tank, would there be any negative to that? Would I still have to use a dosing pump or can I continue to use my MJ1200?

 

Thanks,

 

Neal

Edited October 28, 2008 by Neal

[gastone]

Neal, you want to let the kalk settle once the water has been saturated. Don't use the crispy stuff off the top, nor the cruddy stuff off the bottom. It's easy to avoid adding either. Just keep your feed line off the of the bottom of the resevoir by an inch or so. (I'm making that number up btw). So if your resevoir is 14" deep, extend the feed line 13" down from the top. That way the crud on the bottom won't get sucked up.

 

As far as the two-part, you can't mix them together in the same container. If ya did, it'd be one part and we'd all be doing it. But it's two-part, so no go. If you need more clarification go here and look around. This guy know's his stuff and can tell you all the stuff you need to know. Otherwise contact Chip (Flowerseller) who disagrees with the good Dr. and can back up his own reasoning with a beautiful tank that grows corals so well he has to break down his tank on occassion and give stuff away.

 

G.

[Origami]

never thought about using a siphon break on the output as you describe. That's why I'm glad I'm a member of WAMAS, all you smart guys make my life easier.

 

LOL and glad to be of service.

 

I recalled the configuration being used on one of Dan's (Dandy7200) kalk stirrers when driven by an aqualifter.

 

I could get a dosing pump but even then there seems to be some type of material that will collect at the top of the Top-off water that is bad. What if I added a dosing pump and got a MJ1200 to constantly mix the water?

 

Neal, that crusty stuff on the top of the saturated kalkwasser is calcium carbonate precipitated from a reaction with atmospheric carbon dioxide. You don't want to stir it up because it will break the film, exposing the saturated calcium hydroxide (kalkwasser) to the air again, and unnecessarily using up the calcium that you're trying to put in the tank. The film forms and actually prevents or slow down the degradation of the kalkwasser. The only time I disturb mine (in my stirrer), is when I recharge with new kalk or clean the stirrer.

[Neal]

Thanks guys I am finally beginning to get this. It seems like kalk is risky in my top off water. No one seems to make a tiny kalk stirrer that will fit into my stand. I can not seem to figure out how to get the two part Seachem Reef Advantage Calcium and Alkalinity powder into my tank in an easy manner.

 

Is there anything that I can add to my top-off water that might at least help? Perhaps a sold one part product that won't mess up my cubes parameters?

 

Or has anyone devised a simple way of dosing a two part into a smaller system?

[Origami]

Both Seachem products that you're talking about, Neal, need to be mixed into fresh water before adding the dissolved mixture slowly to your tank. You'll find specifics on the label. Also, you need to add the two to your tank with some time between each. Typically you can add one part in the morning and the other part in the evening. Normally you don't want the two added in close succession because it will just result in calcium carbonate precipitating out, and lowering your alk levels. In other words, you'd just be losing what you're trying to add.

 

Two part is your best bet and probably easiest in a small system. But you can use Kalkwasser if you're careful. Economical recipes for home made two-part can be found in the chemistry forum over at Reef Central if you're interested.

 

You'll find a lot of great articles here: http://archive.reefcentral.com/forums/show...threadid=102605

 

And one specifically on Two-Part here: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/rhf/index.php