Auto Top Off malfuctioned

[st9z]

Okay this is the second time my auto-top off decided to over pump water into my sump. Now I have about 10 gallons of fresh water leaking into the basement :/ Is there a way to prevent this from happening in the future? I was using the Tsunami AT-1 Auto Top off, anybody ever had any bad experience with this top off? Is there a better auto top off system I should buy? Any help is greatly appreciated...now onto a massive water change.

[YBeNormal]

Yes, there is a way to prevent this from happening or to at least greatly reduce the chance of it happening. You should either buy or build an ATO with three switches or sensors. Two switches would be mounted in your tank, fuge or sump with one slightly higher than the other. The first switch cuts off the pump when the desired water level is reached and the second takes over if the first one sticks or fails. The third switch goes in the top off reservoir and turns off the pump if the reserve water level is too low. This prevents the pump from running dry and burning out (or worse yet--catching fire).

 

The JBJ ATO is pretty popular and runs around $100. If you are comfortable with electronics, look in the DIY section for plans to one that I built. Parts would run from $40 to $70 depending on how many bells and whistles you want to add. You can also buy a kit from a site like http://www.aquahub.com/store/diygaquarium.html. Avoid the ones that have you wire 120v directly to the float switch. IMHO, these are safety risks and accidents waiting to happen.

 

Some people use dosing pumps and timers to top off their tanks. This requires you to monitor evaporation and adjust timers periodically. Too much attention required when there are simpler options...

 

Lastly, limit how much water you have in your top off container. Ideally, the setup should be planned out so that you could dump all of the top off container into our tank at once without overflowing the sump or having too large of an impact on the tank salinity. My system has (or at least had before I busted the 29g last week) about 150g of water and I use a 7g top off container. I have to refill it every 3 or 4 days but I consider this to be another level of redundancy built into the design of the system.

[Origami]

I have the three float-switch aquahub kit that Bob's describing controlling my ATO system. I got it from Johnny over at BRK. I can't recall exactly how much it was - something around $40 or so.

[YBeNormal]

Is yours a pure 120v system or one with 120v cord, relay and a 12v wall wart?

[jamesbuf]

Buy this one. I have it and its worked out great for me. Why buy a DIY kit for around the same price.

 

http://www.autotopoff.com/products/DS1/index.htm

 

Plus you can get the optional snail guard to protect the lower float switch. A Cerith making its way onto my original single float switch ATO, which caused an overflow of my sump, is the reason why I switched to the unit I posted above.

 

By the way, if you use a Tom's aqualifter pump for your ATO pump, you don't have to worry with having your pump burn out on you, and therefore you won't need the additional 3rd float switch inside your ATO water container.

[Origami]

Is yours a pure 120v system or one with 120v cord, relay and a 12v wall wart?

 

Mine uses a 12v wall wart to power the internal relays through the float switches. They came with the kit. Snail guards for all three floats, too. The float switches do not carry the 120VAC that drives the TO pump. Johnny has a 2-float kit, too, as I recall that does not have the switch in the TO container. It was a bit cheaper, of course. It took about 30-45 minutes to put the system together.

 

James, the ATO link that you provided does not show a 12V wall wart (transformer) in the photos. It makes me think that the float switches directly switch the 120VAC between the wall outlet and the top off pump. Is that right? If so, that's the "accident waiting to happen" that Bob's referring to.

Edited September 13, 2008 by Origami2547

[jamesbuf]

Mine uses a 12v wall wart to power the internal relays through the float switches. They came with the kit. Snail guards for all three floats, too. The float switches do not carry the 120VAC that drives the TO pump. Johnny has a 2-float kit, too, as I recall that does not have the switch in the TO container. It was a bit cheaper, of course. It took about 30-45 minutes to put the system together.

 

James, the ATO link that you provided does not show a 12V wall wart (transformer) in the photos. It makes me think that the float switches directly switch the 120VAC between the wall outlet and the top off pump. Is that right? If so, that's the "accident waiting to happen" that Bob's referring to.

 

 

Not sure. There is a black box shown in the pics. Should I open it up to see what's inside?

[Origami]

Not sure. There is a black box shown in the pics. Should I open it up to see what's inside?

 

 

I guess you could. If you don't have a wall wart that's plugged into the wall along with the regular plug that carries the 120VAC to your top off pump, it's still possible that there's a transformer circuit inside that would step the relay control voltage down from 120VAC to some lower DC voltage.

[YBeNormal]

By the way, if you use a Tom's aqualifter pump for your ATO pump, you don't have to worry with having your pump burn out on you, and therefore you won't need the additional 3rd float switch inside your ATO water container.

 

Aqualifters seem to work fine for a few months then no longer have enough pressure to pump the water more than a foot or two. I went through three of them before I finally switched over to a maxijet 400, some reducers and a backflow valve. Best decision I've made in a long time.

[Origami]

Aqualifters seem to work fine for a few months then no longer have enough pressure to pump the water more than a foot or two. I went through three of them before I finally switched over to a maxijet 400, some reducers and a backflow valve. Best decision I've made in a long time.

 

Nice thing about an aqualifter though is it provides a good drip at 3.5 gph as compared to 100 gph or so of a Maxijet 400. Since I run my ato through my kalk stirrer, the slow rate is appreciated. Does your plumbing cut your rate back this far, Bob?

 

That said, I've been using an aqualifter for 8 or 9 months now but have had to take it apart and clean it twice of the crud that seems to grow on the flap valves inside. It's a bit of a pain, but it still works.

Edited September 13, 2008 by Origami2547

[traveller7]

Is there a better auto top off system I should buy?

Tunze Osmolator 3155, there is no substitute.

[YBeNormal]

Does your plumbing cut your rate back this far, Bob?

 

I'm also running my top off through a GSA kalk stirrer and yes, I reduce the flow with a valve and it works very well.

[st9z]

Buy this one. I have it and its worked out great for me. Why buy a DIY kit for around the same price.

 

http://www.autotopoff.com/products/DS1/index.htm

 

Plus you can get the optional snail guard to protect the lower float switch. A Cerith making its way onto my original single float switch ATO, which caused an overflow of my sump, is the reason why I switched to the unit I posted above.

 

By the way, if you use a Tom's aqualifter pump for your ATO pump, you don't have to worry with having your pump burn out on you, and therefore you won't need the additional 3rd float switch inside your ATO water container.

Hey James,

Do you have to buy more than one of these if I wanted to do what Bob was doing and put preventative measures with the sump pump, top tank, and the main tank?

 

Update on the situation..what cause the auto top off to over pump water to the sump was the skimmer. My skimmer somehow decided to really kick into action and over skim nothing but water out and it over filled my little milk container that is sitting outside of the tank. Not sure what caused it to do that it's never happened before. Does anybody have that problem with ASM G3?

[jamesbuf]

My aqualifter pump is the same one I've been using for about 1.5 years. Haven't had to clean it or anything thus far. Still pumps out pretty good too. Can't believe you guys have had that much problems with them.

 

 

 

 

Hey James,

Do you have to buy more than one of these if I wanted to do what Bob was doing and put preventative measures with the sump pump, top tank, and the main tank?

 

 

Yes, you'd have to get something else to shut off the pump that tops off the water. I've never had to set that up because I have a 32gal Brute trashcan holding my ATO water, so I don't run out of water usually. For folks that have a smaller topoff container, it might be worth it so you don't burn out the pump.

[YBeNormal]

Wish I could say that and from talking to Johnny and other reefers, my experiences are not uncommon. They are OK pumps and work well for certain applications. They just aren't reliable enough for me trust them when I have to go out of town on a business trip (when something is guaranteed to fail).

 

I've never had to set that up because I have a 32gal Brute trashcan holding my ATO water, so I don't run out of water usually. For folks that have a smaller topoff container, it might be worth it so you don't burn out the pump.

 

Can your system handle all 32g being pumped into it non-stop without causing a large drop in salinity and without overflowing (with the return pump turned off)? I prefer a smaller reservoir that gets refilled every few days. No chance of causing the system to overflow even if the ATO pump sticks in the on position *and* the return pump fails at the same time.

[jamesbuf]

Gotcha. Hmmmm, looks like I'm gonna replace that one then. Thought they made a smaller maxijet than the 400. Let the search begin.

 

 

And Niki, if BRK sells the triple float kit, I'd just go with that then.

[st9z]

yea I think I might take that route as long as its not too much of a DIY i fail at that horribly with the lighting retro kit.

 

Thanks everyone for the help.

[Origami]

Can your system handle all 32g being pumped into it non-stop without causing a large drop in salinity and without overflowing (with the return pump turned off)? I prefer a smaller reservoir that gets refilled every few days. No chance of causing the system to overflow even if the ATO pump sticks in the on position *and* the return pump fails at the same time.

 

Agreed. I keep a maximum of 10 gallons in my ATO reservoir for this very reason. Though I have to fill the reservoir once a week (sometimes it's a short week), it's an important safety measure. I'm glad that I had it, too. I once had a filter sock that clogged and since it was sitting a bit high in the sump, the overflow out of the sock flowed out of the sump and my ATO emptied about 9 gallons of FW into the system. Had my reservoir been larger, or even worse, had it been tied directly to my RO/DI system (as some gamble with), things would have been a real mess.

 

yea I think I might take that route as long as its not too much of a DIY i fail at that horribly with the lighting retro kit.

 

Niki, I'm sure that you'll find it easy enough. If not, there are plenty here that could help you, I'm sure.

[jamesbuf]

Can your system handle all 32g being pumped into it non-stop without causing a large drop in salinity and without overflowing (with the return pump turned off)? I prefer a smaller reservoir that gets refilled every few days. No chance of causing the system to overflow even if the ATO pump sticks in the on position *and* the return pump fails at the same time.

 

 

I have my ATO hooked up to my ACIII and only have the ATO on for maybe 10-12 minutes a night. Redundancy to make sure all 32 gallons don't make it into the tank. So the first float switch would have to stick, then the second float switch would have to fail, then the ACIII would have to fall. All three would have to happen for all the water to make its way into the tank.

[YBeNormal]

Yeah, but remember what happens when the ACIII loses power? All plugs on the DC8 remain in whatever state they were in when communication with the AC3 was lost. In other words, your ATO pump would continue running until the AC3 communications were restored.

 

It's unlikely that all of these events would occur at once but I know my luck. It will happen and I will be on a business trip. Call me paranoid but I prefer to rule out as many possibilities as I can.

[rioreef]

I have the autotopoff.com device with two float switches that control a solenoid. I have a second solenoid that I need to install that will be on a separate timer and circuit ahead of this setup as another safety measure. What I currently have is on a timer that is on for 15 min twice a day. More than enough time to handle the top off.

 

Been running this for more than three years now.

[Stu]

I found this old thread on a google search, and I'm wondering if someone can help.

 

I have an aqualifter hooked up to my JBJ ATO and kalk reactor. I want to run a maxi jet or other small powerhead instead. Does anyone know what supplies I would need to run tubing from the maxi jet to my kalk reactor (i.e. reduce 1/2" tubing to 1/4" tubing and substantially reduce flow going into the kalk reactor)? I'm sure I can get some Guest fittings online, but I'd rather pick up something from HD, Lowe's, etc. instead.

[extreme_tooth_decay]

I'll never understand why you all mess with all those switches and sensors...

 

1 peristaltic pump. Some tubing. A timer. Done.

 

6 years, never had a problem...keep 50 or more gallons in my ATO reservoir at all times.

[rocko918]

I found this old thread on a google search, and I'm wondering if someone can help.

 

I have an aqualifter hooked up to my JBJ ATO and kalk reactor. I want to run a maxi jet or other small powerhead instead. Does anyone know what supplies I would need to run tubing from the maxi jet to my kalk reactor (i.e. reduce 1/2" tubing to 1/4" tubing and substantially reduce flow going into the kalk reactor)? I'm sure I can get some Guest fittings online, but I'd rather pick up something from HD, Lowe's, etc. instead.

 

John at brk knew exactly what i needed when i went from a maxi jet to my kalk reactor. He had everything in the shop that i need. Best would be to go in and tell him what you got. It was 2 fittings to reduce down to the kalk reactor with a check valve so i don't get a siphon back.

[Stu]

I'll never understand why you all mess with all those switches and sensors...

 

1 peristaltic pump. Some tubing. A timer. Done.

 

6 years, never had a problem...keep 50 or more gallons in my ATO reservoir at all times.

 

A float switch with a backup switch isn't exactly rocket science. I already have an ATO that works great and a maxi jet. There is no reason to buy a peristaltic pump. Anyone with any constructive suggestions?