YBeNormal September 7, 2008 Share September 7, 2008 Manassas City included an inset in the bill this month to inform us that they had switched from chlorine to chloramine this summer. Other cities in the region have switched over recently or reserve the right to do so at any time. Unlike chlorine that will dissipate overnight if the water is aerated, chloramine is much more stable and may remain in the water for several days or more. One of the byproducts as it breaks down is ammonia and we all know that is not good for our tanks. As with most US cities, the announcement was made after-the-fact and received very little publicity. If you are not using a water treatment specifically designed for chlorine *and* chloramine (e.g. Prime and AmQuel) or if you are using a RO/DI unit with old carbon cartridges, you are taking a big chance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Grenier September 7, 2008 Share September 7, 2008 Thanks for the heads-up I'm in Prince William Co. and hope this won't affect us Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YBeNormal September 7, 2008 Author Share September 7, 2008 Too late Larry... http://www.pwcsa.org/pdf/062408-Conversion2Choloramines.pdf As long as you are using dual carbon cartridges or GAC in your RO/DI and keep the cartridges refreshed often, you should have no worries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Ward September 7, 2008 Share September 7, 2008 Too late Larry... http://www.pwcsa.org/pdf/062408-Conversion2Choloramines.pdf As long as you are using dual carbon cartridges or GAC in your RO/DI and keep the cartridges refreshed often, you should have no worries. Bob, Hopefully you can help me he. I the standard 5-Stage from AWI. I know DC uses chloramines-am I ok with this system or should I be doing something in addition to the RO system? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reefmontalvo September 7, 2008 Share September 7, 2008 How would I find out about other counties? I live in Centreville which is right down the block from Manassas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishcam September 7, 2008 Share September 7, 2008 (edited) How would I find out about other counties? I live in Centreville which is right down the block from Manassas. Arlington, Co. Here... anyone know? Edit: answered my own q: http://www.arlingtonva.us/departments/envi...esClmnfaqs.aspx Edited September 7, 2008 by fishcam Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YBeNormal September 7, 2008 Author Share September 7, 2008 Most water districts in the area have switched to chloramine or have plans to do so in the future. Those that typically use chlorine may switch to chloramine one or more times during the year (or vice-versa). IMHO, it's always safest to assume that chloramine is being used and to treat or filter the water accordingly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davelin315 September 7, 2008 Share September 7, 2008 Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but the GAC will break the chloramine bond but then you should follow up with more GAC afterwards? I use a GAC filter to break the bonds and then go into a chlorine guzzler filter to remove the results prior to hitting the membrane. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phisigs79 September 10, 2008 Share September 10, 2008 Guess what? Just talked to someone at Prince William and they started this as well on July 10th. Guess who had old filters and started having issue with their tank and could control them?? MEEEEEEEEEEEE. I changed out my filters last night and am going to add a extra canister full of carbon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YBeNormal September 10, 2008 Author Share September 10, 2008 That could be at least part of the problem. How old were your carbon prefilters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phisigs79 September 10, 2008 Share September 10, 2008 over 6 months probably more like 8 or 9. Im sure it part of the ongoing problem i was unable to fix. Weird when i did a 50g water change the RTNing got worst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YBeNormal September 11, 2008 Author Share September 11, 2008 Yeah, I figure prefilters are cheap and change them at least every 6 months. Buy 'em in bulk and replace 'em often! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YBeNormal September 11, 2008 Author Share September 11, 2008 P.S. Now would be a good time to stock up on prefilters since the GB will get 20% discount and free shipping! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phisigs79 September 11, 2008 Share September 11, 2008 talked to the guy from the Prince william water plant today and he tested our water out today (other issue we have been having) next week he is going to bring out his instruments and check the water out of the RO and storage container. He said he wished they could find a way to connect with the aquarium clubs in this area to warn them of changes and help resolve them before they are a issue. He did say once they switch to Chloramine that all their fish died at their plant. He said adding carbon to one stage of the RO filter is the best way to deal with Chloramine. I'm going to do just that. He said carbon block filters will do a good job when they are new but that their effectivness will run out fairly quick. Ill keep everyone updated on their findings next week Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phisigs79 September 11, 2008 Share September 11, 2008 I read on RC that ammonia test kits will not properly show cloramine as ammonia. So you "could" have ammonia in your water but the test kit wouldnt show it. Carbon and charged DI is your best way to deal with it. Carbon will break down the Chloramine to ammonia and the DI will filter out the Ammonia. Its very important not to let your filters life expire or you could be in a word of trouble. I read quite a few articles about people having unknown issues with their tanks that are being linked back to the change of Chloramine in our water Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Grenier September 11, 2008 Share September 11, 2008 I found this interesting article on Chloramine ----------------------------- The Chloramine Issue Most of us are familiar with chlorine. For most of the 20th century, chlorine was the disinfectant of choice for public water supplies. Now it is being rapidly replaced by a substance called chloramine, a mix of chlorine and ammonia. The decline in the use of chlorine began with the relatively recent discovery of a group unsavory and often carcinogenic spin-off chemicals called trihalomethanes (THMs) that are formed when chlorine combines with organic matter in water. To meet EPA standards for THMs, which once created are hard to remove, municipal suppliers are turning increasingly to disinfection with chloramines, which produce much lower levels of trihalomethanes. As often happens in our imperfect world, however, the solution to the THM problem brought its own set of problems. For example, chloramine can be deadly to fish in aquariums and ponds and to patients on dialysis machines. For regular home use, water with chloramine presents aesthetic issues of bad taste, odor and skin irritation. And let Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishcam September 11, 2008 Share September 11, 2008 Yeah, I figure prefilters are cheap and change them at least every 6 months. Buy 'em in bulk and replace 'em often! I'm not sure I understand. My RK3 from AWI has two carbon columns already. Are you advocating a third/fourth? Is there enough in the water to saturate the existing columns? What sort of water volume are you creating to use your carbon up in 6mo? I'm just curious, because I was replacing with a Tpack from AWI on about an 8mo basis. Also, which AWI product are you advocating, because I cant seem to find an additional carbon column for sale there. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larry Grenier September 11, 2008 Share September 11, 2008 (edited) Problem Solved! You guys had me worrying but I think Air, Water, and Ice; one of our friendly vendors has a solution. I'm thinking this sounds like a good idea. Thanks again Bob Edited September 11, 2008 by Larry Grenier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sportzfish September 11, 2008 Share September 11, 2008 I'm not sure I understand. My RK3 from AWI has two carbon columns already. Are you advocating a third/fourth? Is there enough in the water to saturate the existing columns? What sort of water volume are you creating to use your carbon up in 6mo? I'm just curious, because I was replacing with a Tpack from AWI on about an 8mo basis. Also, which AWI product are you advocating, because I cant seem to find an additional carbon column for sale there. Thanks Under the filters section of the AWI website they sell a choramine filter pack. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tygger September 11, 2008 Share September 11, 2008 Hmm... does anyone hear regularly use Amquel or Prime with their RO/DI water? I've never used it im my SW tanks and don't like to change the current method when things are running smoothly, but it seems like it could be cheap insurance as opposed to buying extra filters, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fishcam September 12, 2008 Share September 12, 2008 Under the filters section of the AWI website they sell a choramine filter pack. Thanks. I see em but I'm a little confused as to why we need more chloramine filter power when the reefkeeper III says it takes care of things... can someone help me out? am I missing something? This is what i've got and it says it takes care of chloramines ... http://www.airwaterice.com/product/1TYPHOO...or_100_GPD.html Can someone help me out here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YBeNormal September 12, 2008 Author Share September 12, 2008 Let me give this a stab... I agree with the guy from the PWC water treatment plant, carbon block filters will wear out faster than a cartridge full of GAK. I would also suggest that we consider scale here. He's talking about thousands or tens of thousands of gallons of water (maybe more) through a very large carbon block filter. We are talking about much less water volume at a much slower rate (contact time with the carbon is crucial). Apples and oranges. jnguyen4700 had been using an AWI unit for several months when he realized that his area had been converted to chloramine. He lives a block or so away from the water tower and asked the water supply to send out a technician to test the water. His source water read ~3ppm chloramine out of the tap (very high) and zero out of his AWI unit. The technician was very surprised by the readings on both ends. The bottom line is that AWI is correct and so is the person that Chris spoke with from the water supply. Carbon blocks will become saturated quicker only because there is less total carbon and less total contact with carbon when compared to GAC cartridges. This does not mean that they are not effective though--proven by AWI's claims and the water test at James' house. There is no way for us to know when the carbon blocks are saturated though and that is the reason that I advocate changing them out every six months, more often if you use a lot of RO/DI water (and you define what "a lot" is). Carbon filters are cheap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
phisigs79 September 12, 2008 Share September 12, 2008 Agree with Bob on this one and recharging DI is also important. My under standing is that the carbon block filter will remove the chloramine but at the same time unbinds the ammonia particle which then flows through the membrane and is removed by the DI resin. I am adding a carbon chamber so that i dont have to take the chance it might not get removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Air Water and Ice September 12, 2008 Share September 12, 2008 Agree with Bob on this one and recharging DI is also important. My under standing is that the carbon block filter will remove the chloramine but at the same time unbinds the ammonia particle which then flows through the membrane and is removed by the DI resin. I am adding a carbon chamber so that i dont have to take the chance it might not get removed. You're correct in this statement. Carbon block and GAC filters do break down the chloramine from the water, but ammonia is released as well. This is where catalytic carbon comes into play. It breaks down the chloramine without letting the ammonia escape. We normally have the catalytic carbon go before a carbon block filter to ensure that everything is removed. As long as you have a DI, though, ammonia isn't too much of a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanman September 15, 2008 Share September 15, 2008 Okay - thanks for the reminder. I don't have either Chlorine OR Chloramine in my well water, but it was about time to change filters anyhow. Done!! bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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