Red and Brown Algae on Sand

[civitan.erichanson]

Hi every body.

 

I seem to have a growing amount of red and green algae on my sand. I have probably 12 or so various type snails and about the same number of Hermit Crabs (I know - no effect on this problem). Lights are on for about a total of 11 hours. Although I have not tested in two days, Ammonia, trate/trite are all zero.

 

I do not see any growth on my rock. I scrape a light green film from the glass every night.

 

Do I need more critters and if so, what type?

 

Thanks,

 

Eric.

[Larry Grenier]

A few things to consider

 

1) Sounds like maybe cyanobacteria which actually isn't algae but looks like it and grows real fast.

 

2) Nitrates are 0, really? I'd consider getting a new test kit or borrow a friends. Try to keep below 0.1.

 

3) Amount of flow: It often thrives in low-flow and excess C02 environments. Consider improved flow.

 

4) Check you phosphates. If it's high, that could promote algae growth and I believe cyanobacteria growth as-well. Maybe you'll need to use a phosphate reactor or phosphate remover of some-kind.

 

5) Google cyanobacteria and see what you think

Edited June 6, 2008 by Larry Grenier

[civitan.erichanson]

Yes, it could be flow. Everytime I put flow across the sand floor (like last nigh my maxijet slid to two inches above the floor) my clam looks pissed, bubble shrinks and GTA hides in his rock - silly inverts...

 

I wonder if I could do a koralia 2 and not %$#* them off. I will check my trates again tonight. No phosphate kit, hmm fathers day is around the corner!!

 

Thanks.

 

A few things to consider

 

1) Sounds like maybe cyanobacteria which actually isn't algae but looks like it and grows real fast.

 

2) Nitrates are 0, really? I'd consider getting a new test kit or borrow a friends. Try to keep below 0.1.

 

3) Amount of flow: It often thrives in low-flow and excess C02 environments. Consider improved flow.

 

4) Check you phosphates. If it's high, that could promote algae growth and I believe cyanobacteria growth as-well. Maybe you'll need to use a phosphate reactor or phosphate remover of some-kind.

 

5) Google cyanobacteria and see what you think

[amay121]

Good luck Eric. I'm fighting the same issue right now, but I have tons of flow and just did a 30% water change yesterday with another 5-10% later tonight or tomorrow. ugh. It's a tough battle though if you let it get ahead of you.

[Larry Grenier]

I have a 30gal fuge waiting fot the main tank; I know, sounds backwards, with the same problem and after doing a bunch of research, I plan on taking my own advice

Edited June 6, 2008 by Larry Grenier

[wreck]

Eric,

Get a Silicates test kit while you're at it. I have a feeling that play sand might be a contributing factor along with the tank just settling in again after the move.

Wreck

[civitan.erichanson]

The odd thing is, I do not remember Jim's tank looking like this. I did a real thorough job washing the sand and most of the sand at the top is brand new Aragonite sand.

 

So critters are not a fix??

 

 

 

Eric,

Get a Silicates test kit while you're at it. I have a feeling that play sand might be a contributing factor along with the tank just settling in again after the move.

Wreck

[amay121]

Critters not a fix, but help a lot in keeping it in check.

[civitan.erichanson]

I like critters (I probably just like the word). What would you suggest?

 

Do I have too much light and what about adding a koralia to blow across the bed would one koralia 2 do it?

 

I am dumping a ton of money into my backyard right now a few koralias are not in the budget, but nor is fighting this stuff when it gets out of control!

 

Critters not a fix, but help a lot in keeping it in check.

[amay121]

Did you check out Eve's sale? She was selling some used maxi jets for a decent price. She's in Gaithersburg as well, really close to me. And critters, not sure, some people say cerith snails, some say nerite, I say, I'm not sure. I just got some cerith's from the BZA GB and I'll see what they're capable of in a week or two or more. I may end going to scales and doing their kids special tonight as well. I think it's a buy 20 CUC, get 10 free (all have to be the same) and kids get an additional 15% off. If you go any other day then friday, WAMAS members get a 10% Discount to their Buy Some get some Free CUC deal, but it's a stretch of a drive for you though.

[civitan.erichanson]

Driving any where on Friday is a stretch! Where is Scales.

 

I saw that I have been going back and forth on the Koralias because I want something controllable but will not shell out $300 for their controller.

 

Did you check out Eve's sale? She was selling some used maxi jets for a decent price. She's in Gaithersburg as well, really close to me. And critters, not sure, some people say cerith snails, some say nerite, I say, I'm not sure. I just got some cerith's from the BZA GB and I'll see what they're capable of in a week or two or more. I may end going to scales and doing their kids special tonight as well. I think it's a buy 20 CUC, get 10 free (all have to be the same) and kids get an additional 15% off. If you go any other day then friday, WAMAS members get a 10% Discount to their Buy Some get some Free CUC deal, but it's a stretch of a drive for you though.

[amay121]

Scales is East. Look up the vendor section for store locations (should be a sticky), either that or maybe when I go down, I'll buy you some and stick them in my sump so that one day when you're on your way home, you can just pick it up.

 

If you need prices, just give them a call.

Edited June 6, 2008 by amay121

[blaze98]

Scales isn't too far from Magnetic1's house, maybe 10 minutes away.

[amay121]

Or, you can wait for the next BZA GB. Which should be in a week or two.. lol..

[Hilary]

Chip (Flowerseller) was talking about doing a quick BZA group buy next week, in fact.

 

What about the green and red that you get between the sand and the side of the tank? Most members' tanks I've seen have had that (as well as, um, mine). Natural, or an extension of the bad stuff you can get on the surface of the sand?

[lanman]

Hi every body.

 

I seem to have a growing amount of red and green algae on my sand. I have probably 12 or so various type snails and about the same number of Hermit Crabs (I know - no effect on this problem). Lights are on for about a total of 11 hours. Although I have not tested in two days, Ammonia, trate/trite are all zero.

 

I do not see any growth on my rock. I scrape a light green film from the glass every night.

 

Do I need more critters and if so, what type?

 

Thanks,

 

Eric.

I'm certainly no expert - but I think 11 hours MIGHT be a little more than you need. What kind of lights?? I had a cyano problem that has cleared itself up - and the only reason I can think of is because my light started malfunctioning, and now shuts itself off for a while every hour or so. Nothing much else changed.

 

bob

[civitan.erichanson]

You are probably right on the lights. I somewhat suspected that. When I work from home I stare at the tank waiting for the lights to come on so my corals wake up! But yeah I should cut back.

 

8 mPaq High Output T5 lamps: 4 daylight (10,000 K) and 4 Actinic (460nm)

 

When I bought the tank from Jim he said they would need to be replaced in a few months - how do I know when to replace them?

 

Rick - even if I have high silicates what do I do to control them, just water changes? Thanks.

 

I'm certainly no expert - but I think 11 hours MIGHT be a little more than you need. What kind of lights?? I had a cyano problem that has cleared itself up - and the only reason I can think of is because my light started malfunctioning, and now shuts itself off for a while every hour or so. Nothing much else changed.

 

bob

Edited June 7, 2008 by civitan.erichanson

[Kimchi Corals]

Eric, If it is cyanobacteria I would wait to see if it is a self limiting event. I had a outbreak of cyano about 6 weeks ago and it covered the entire sand bed in the tank. I tried several interventions such as water changes, limited feeding for fish, red slime remover, Fighting conchs, limited lighting times, and increased flow. Of all these changes I recieved little or temporary reprevie from the cyano. However one thing did work.....Time. I have realized after much research that you must remove one of the necessary requirements of cyanobacteria to eliminate it. Those requirements include light, nuturients, and low flow. Now the challenge is to figure out which one is fueling the cyano outbreak. My cyano outbreak I believe was related to a large amount of organic nitrates in the tank due to the cycling process. My tank is about 7 months old now and I believe it is finally completing its cycle. This extended period of time is due to the fact that I used dead dry rock to create the aquascape in the tank and used 4 small pieces of live rock to seed the tank. Once the nitrates were gone so was the cyano. As suddenly as it appeared it quickly left as well. So here are a few questions.

Did you add anything that may require a nitrogen cycle?

How much are you feeding the fish and corals? To much will leave nutrients in the water remember the reef in the ocean has very little nutrients.

How much flow do you have going to the region.

Is your output from the protein skimmer adequate.

The lighting period of 11 hours is fine for the reef. I have read several articles and books that suggest mimicing normal natural reef conditions. As an example hawaiian reefs get on average 10-12 hours of daylight year round. I have also read opionions that some aquarist run the lighting 8 hrs a day. I believe this saves on energy costs without adverse effect on the livestock of a reef and would be a good idea. However I really enjoy watching my tank without the aid of a flashlight or moonlights. Anyways, It would be a good idea to decrease the lighting times for your tank at this time but do it slowly, lets say decrease to 8 hours within a 1 week period.

The bottomline to fix this problem is to manage the cyano by controlling its requirements. This is similar to the concept of putting out a fire. Fire requires heat, fuel, and oxygen. remove just one and BINGO no fire. Another thing to remember is that you will never get rid of the cyano you can only manage it from outbreaks. Also, the use of "reef safe" chemical remedies may jeopardize the health of everything in your reef. If you don't believe me just read the insert of the chemical. Hope this helps. PM me if you need some help or questions. John Yauger

[civitan.erichanson]

John,

 

Thanks this is a great post and very useful information.

 

I checked trates again today and the kit says zero (AP kit). So it is either true or false. My flow is probably the issue - I am going to buy a koralia 1, my bubble and GTA seem to really hate flow across the sand floor, but hopefully they will adjust (the GTA is a giant like 10 inches - when he roams he scares the bejesus out of me!). If the K works then I will add one to the back of the tank which has similar but lesser issues. I will probably cut back on lights, my actinics are on now 11 AM and go off at 11PM.

 

Thanks.

[reefmontalvo]

Cyano is a self generating self feeding and self creater of well....it's self. The three main factors to rid your self of cyano are:

 

1. Lights

 

2. Water flow

 

3. Sand movement

 

I had good bulbs

 

I had okay water flow

 

And I had no sand movement

 

I bought nassarius snails and a Tunze pump. After a week the problem was gone. Thanks to BRK helping me understand the cause and cure for this serious problem. I now run two Tunze's on either side of the tank and a power sweeper on one side of my tank. I also placed about 25 nassarius snails in the tank. I also limited the tank lights to 10hrs a day.

[gmubeach]

There are actaully a hand full of snails that will eat cyno, but the way I combat it is by not over feeding and using a refugium:) I have the following in my tank and they have cleaned it good, but I don't have anything that eats invasive macro that would be the real "Dream invert" for me anyway heres a compelete list of every invert thats in my tank

 

One cowrie from dr mac

One fighting conch from bza

15 cerith snails

5 margitta snails(they are dieing off)

20 astrea snails

1 unknown snail looks like some kind of red footed turbo grazer(got him in the astreas)

10 narsisus snails

3 stometalla(got in the live rock)

10 zebra hermits

baby something snails!

10 bumble bee snails

2 cleaner shrimp

6 peppermint shrimp(sump)

 

1 (badly injured probably dead sea cumumber is repairing in my sump, but havn't seen him so he might be dead)

 

1 sexy shrimp(missing in action)

1 feather duster(in sump)

[civitan.erichanson]

I have been really busy for two months and pretty much off the Board. I was shocked to discover that my cyano problem is now over three months old.

 

I am running between 10 and 20 ppm nitrates.

Three fish (3 inch yellow tang, small 6 line wrasse, and a yellow tipped damsel) have disappeared in my tink in August.

I have three Koralia 2s (I think they are all 2s) and one maxijet

10 or more hermits and probably 8 snails. Hermits jump everything added to the tank

I change at least 10-15 gallons a week

New SW test negative for nitrates

Limited feedings

Two blue tipped damsels, two nemos, one coral beauty and one bi-color

 

Remember this is a used tank, it was all moved and resetup 4 months ago

 

I changed lights the first week of august they are now:

 

ATI Aquablue

UVL Super Actinic

UVL Aquasun

ATI Blue Plus

GE 6500K Daylight or Giesemann Midday

ATI Blue Plus

UVL 75/25

ATI Blue Plus

 

I am only running the Blues about 11 hours a day (3 bulbs)

 

Cyano forms into matts every three days and I must pull it out by hand.

 

I know I need to control the Nitrates, but they are not dropping despite SW changes and FW top offs.

 

Back to the same question, wait it out, get a HOB refugium, more snails or what? More than 15 gallons every couple of days is tought to do.

 

Thanks,

 

Eric.

 

There are actaully a hand full of snails that will eat cyno, but the way I combat it is by not over feeding and using a refugium:) I have the following in my tank and they have cleaned it good, but I don't have anything that eats invasive macro that would be the real "Dream invert" for me anyway heres a compelete list of every invert thats in my tank

 

One cowrie from dr mac

One fighting conch from bza

15 cerith snails

5 margitta snails(they are dieing off)

20 astrea snails

1 unknown snail looks like some kind of red footed turbo grazer(got him in the astreas)

10 narsisus snails

3 stometalla(got in the live rock)

10 zebra hermits

baby something snails!

10 bumble bee snails

2 cleaner shrimp

6 peppermint shrimp(sump)

 

1 (badly injured probably dead sea cumumber is repairing in my sump, but havn't seen him so he might be dead)

 

1 sexy shrimp(missing in action)

1 feather duster(in sump)

[Kevin Garrison]

I'm also dealing with cyano issues at the moment, if you reduce light it also dies off. Not the "best" way unless you have alterate ways of keeping the corals happy, but it is very effective at ridding the tank of cyano.

 

I'm also looking at doing a possible group buy with www.piece-of-the-reef.com, I have contacted them and if we hit $500 we get free shipping, I have a post about it up in the general discussion area.

 

If I get enough interest I will go ahead with the order, Christina is really good and her prices are very fair. I don't think I've paid a listed price yet and my prices on snails have been well below her website. I'd imagine if we hit big quantities of snails it will get even better.

 

Let me know who's interested and I'll get with her for a full quote.

 

Thanks,

 

Kevin

[Smoothtriqueter]

 

 

I know I need to control the Nitrates, but they are not dropping despite SW changes and FW top offs.

 

Back to the same question, wait it out, get a HOB refugium, more snails or what? More than 15 gallons every couple of days is tought to do.

 

Thanks,

 

Eric.

 

Actually having some of the same problems so tagging along. Also wish you the best on finding a solution, it has been awhile!

[Kimchi Corals]

Eric, I experienced this same problem. The cyano suddenly appeared approximately 4-5 months after setting up my system. I did everything you have done. I basically took everyones advice tried medicating the tank, water changes, reduced lighting, decreased feeding, and adding a refugium with Cheato. Only after time and the addition of the macro alge fuge did the cyano magically disappear. I read somewhere that cyano may be a part of the normal cycle period of a tank. From my experience I believe that this may be true due to the sudden disappearance of the cyano in my system. Try the fuge with cheato and see what happens. If you already have one it is a matter of time until the cyano consumes all of the nutrients it is feeding on. Some may disagree with me concerning this conclusion, but this worked for me. John