treesprite May 16, 2008 Share May 16, 2008 I accidently knocked the light into my refugium about 20 minutes ago, electrocuted myself a bit yanking it out because I touched water, so my finger, hand and wrist and part of lower arm are feeling strange.... once my brain settles a little I'll have to evaluate that a bit more, but I'm sure it will be fine after a bit. The 2 fish I can see in the dark tank are swimming, thank goodness, so I'm assuming the other 3 are ok. Power is off for the lights so I can't see what may be going on in there with anything else. As much as the electricity affected me a human in relationship to a fish, I imagine it would have killed them had it reached them. I have some questions: How exactly does electricity go when it comes to a problem in one body of water that returns to the next? I have just 1 grounding probe which is in the sump. The water goes from display tank to sump tank to fuge tank with returns in both sump and fuge. How long does it take a probe to ground if it is in the same body of water? If I had a probe in my fuge would it have taken on the electricity fast enough that I wouldn't have gotten the minor electrocution? Should I assume, while this is unlikely to ever happen again, that I should put a probe in the fuge as well, and depending on whatever way the water routes would I also want one in the tank? would having one in the tank pull the electricity to concentrate if the problem were to happen in either sump or fuge if they both have probes (or if one didn't)? All this when I have been awake for 21 hours. Now I definately can not sleep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wreck May 16, 2008 Share May 16, 2008 I think you need to have your lights and all tank equipment on a GFI/GFCI outlet. If you had the light on a GFI, power would have been cut off as soon as the light hit the water. Ask Holly, Hbh, she knocked her light into the water shortly after I installed a GFI for her and the power cut off instantly. I think you're lucky to only have gotten a minor shock, the ground probe may have grounded some of the juice. Wreck I accidently knocked the light into my refugium about 20 minutes ago, electrocuted myself a bit yanking it out because I touched water, so my finger, hand and wrist and part of lower arm are feeling strange.... once my brain settles a little I'll have to evaluate that a bit more, but I'm sure it will be fine after a bit. The 2 fish I can see in the dark tank are swimming, thank goodness, so I'm assuming the other 3 are ok. Power is off for the lights so I can't see what may be going on in there with anything else. As much as the electricity affected me a human in relationship to a fish, I imagine it would have killed them had it reached them. I have some questions: How exactly does electricity go when it comes to a problem in one body of water that returns to the next? I have just 1 grounding probe which is in the sump. The water goes from display tank to sump tank to fuge tank with returns in both sump and fuge. How long does it take a probe to ground if it is in the same body of water? If I had a probe in my fuge would it have taken on the electricity fast enough that I wouldn't have gotten the minor electrocution? Should I assume, while this is unlikely to ever happen again, that I should put a probe in the fuge as well, and depending on whatever way the water routes would I also want one in the tank? would having one in the tank pull the electricity to concentrate if the problem were to happen in either sump or fuge if they both have probes (or if one didn't)? All this when I have been awake for 21 hours. Now I definately can not sleep. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowardofNOVA May 16, 2008 Share May 16, 2008 WARNING - WARNING - WARNING I accidently knocked the light into my refugium about 20 minutes ago, electrocuted myself a bit yanking it out because I touched water, so my finger, hand and wrist and part of lower arm are feeling strange Doing this again could cause a BIG SALE for your spouse!!! Forrest, Please promise us you will NEVER reach into a tank to pull out an electrical item again??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freezerburn May 16, 2008 Share May 16, 2008 (edited) I agree, you need some GFI installed. I would have gone for the power strip to flip the button, had a friend or two get shocked when things like heaters bust open. No matter how many probes you put in your tank if that much power was sitting there it's not going to take just one path. Any kind of ground will have more or less juice flow depending how well it's grounded (maybe enough to drain the lethal limit). I doubt you can put enough probes to stop it. If your concerned about your fish they won't feel anythin *needs a pro to confirm that bit of info* From my experience, one of my friends marine tanks had a fault somewhere in the electrical that would give him the shock of his life, he didn't find it till a month later in a rio pump I think, either way the fish were fine. If something like a light is in your tank don't ever put your hand in there till you cut the power by pulling the plug or switching off the power strip. I'm no doctor but I'm guessing a shock like that could have stopped your heart. We all learn lots by doing so next time I'm sure you won't be so quick to stick your hand in the tank. If your arm still feels funny you might want to see a doctor. Edited May 16, 2008 by Freezerburn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikS May 16, 2008 Share May 16, 2008 Not certain it can covered in a post. Practical purposes - electricity moves at the speed of light, instant. Matters little where the ground probe is connected - in this case it serves to create a circuit, a path for the electricity. You can think of the entire connected body of water as one big wire with current running through it. As mentioned a GFCI will trip under these circumstances....................AND..............NEVER reach into the tank before unplugging the offending device. If the light (or anything wired) falls into the tank CUT THE POWER to the device before removing it (unplug, turn off the switch, hit the breaker,). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MLazar May 16, 2008 Share May 16, 2008 If your arm still feels funny you might want to see a doctor. Forrest, I'm more worried about you than your tank................sorry, but you're not replaceable. (no disrespect intended towards wonderful critters and fish). Take care of yourself. Maureen Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnetic1 May 16, 2008 Share May 16, 2008 Forrest, Glad you are ok. Electricity moves in the path of least resistance. That was you GFCI is a must, even if you need to get the plug in ones. I have a couple leftover from before I converted to GFCI outlets. Let me know if interested Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amuze May 16, 2008 Share May 16, 2008 (edited) IF that ever happens again, kill power before reaching in. It's better to replace what can be than to lose what can't be. Glad to hear that you (and your fish) are ok. Forrest, Glad you are ok. Electricity moves in the path of least resistance. That was you GFCI is a must, even if you need to get the plug in ones. I have a couple leftover from before I converted to GFCI outlets. Let me know if interested Have you ever been in an incident where you needed these? I'm asking because I'm wondering how reliable they are? If they are 100%, then I'd like to get them. Home Depot I take it? Edited May 16, 2008 by audible Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnetic1 May 16, 2008 Share May 16, 2008 IF that ever happens again, kill power before reaching in. It's better to replace what can be than to lose what can't be. Glad to hear that you (and your fish) are ok. Have you ever been in an incident where you needed these? I'm asking because I'm wondering how reliable they are? If they are 100%, then I'd like to get them. Home Depot I take it? Yea, HD. Ive had it trip once when my Rio pump was busted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amuze May 16, 2008 Share May 16, 2008 Yea, HD. Ive had it trip once when my Rio pump was busted. Great thanks! I don't want to be the next to give my fish shock treatment therapy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treesprite May 16, 2008 Author Share May 16, 2008 (edited) Thanks for the concern. I have GFCI on everything except for the lights because I couldn't imagine a way for water to get near anything.... the power strip is where is can't possibly get wet, and the outlet is across the room behind the sofa, connected with a very long outdoor-type cord. Short of the lights taking a dunk, there wasn't any way to get electric+water except for the lights to go in and I never expected that to happen. I don't plan on it happeing again but will put a GFCI on there anyway... Eric If you want to sell me one I could pick up when I get my BZA stuff. I didn't put my hand in the water. I tried to grab the fixture before it could fall in, but it hit the water and splashed while I was touching it (it being metal), at which point I let it go and it went under. I turned off the power and then pulled the fixture out by the cord without touching anything wet. A few times the GFCI has cut the power to strips that the pumps were on, once due to the strip having been in a bad spot and a couple times because I didn't completely dry my hand off before reaching under the stand - even a hint of moisture trips it instantly. Does a grounding proble really not protect against getting electrocuted? Does it only work for stray minor current? Edited May 16, 2008 by treesprite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scott_LM May 16, 2008 Share May 16, 2008 Please keep in mind that a GFCI will only protect you from a ground fault. A short from hot --> Neutral will not trip the GFCI. This is why a GFCI in conjuction with a ground probe should always be used! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnetic1 May 16, 2008 Share May 16, 2008 Eric If you want to sell me one I could pick up when I get my BZA stuff. Forrest, I think I paid $25+ for it. Used for like a week. $15 sound fair? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest webshout May 16, 2008 Share May 16, 2008 (edited) Forrest: Glad you are ok. Echo what everyone else said - PLUS - Toss the light! Stay safe. Edited May 18, 2008 by webshout Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Highland Reefer May 16, 2008 Share May 16, 2008 Forest, Send me a PM. I will install a GFCI outlet for you free of charge. I may even have an extra GFCI outlet laying around here I can use for free. I don't live that far away. I would be available this weekend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
magnetic1 May 17, 2008 Share May 17, 2008 Forest, Send me a PM. I will install a GFCI outlet for you free of charge. I may even have an extra GFCI outlet laying around here I can use for free. I don't live that far away. I would be available this weekend. Take Cliff up on the offer. That's much better! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treesprite May 17, 2008 Author Share May 17, 2008 (edited) Forrest, I think I paid $25+ for it. Used for like a week. $15 sound fair? Sounds fair to me, thanks. Forest, Send me a PM. I will install a GFCI outlet for you free of charge. I may even have an extra GFCI outlet laying around here I can use for free. I don't live that far away. I would be available this weekend. Can't do it, I live in an apartment, but thankyou for offering! Looks like I'm going to put fuge light back on my list. Edited May 17, 2008 by treesprite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmubeach May 17, 2008 Share May 17, 2008 wow glad your ok:) I did something similar with a heater it hurts bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davelin315 May 17, 2008 Share May 17, 2008 Sounds fair to me, thanks. Can't do it, I live in an apartment, but thankyou for offering! Looks like I'm going to put fuge light back on my list. That's ridiculous. You can install a GFCI wherever you want. In fact, they are becoming more code than not, so it would be like bringing the apartment up to code in some circumstances. Any outlet within 2' of water/water source needs to be GFCI. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treesprite May 17, 2008 Author Share May 17, 2008 That's ridiculous. You can install a GFCI wherever you want. In fact, they are becoming more code than not, so it would be like bringing the apartment up to code in some circumstances. Any outlet within 2' of water/water source needs to be GFCI. it is a lease violation to change anything like that, that's why I had to make sure my ro/di had a tap adapter since I can't touch the pipes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davelin315 May 17, 2008 Share May 17, 2008 Does your lease actually forbid you from making any changes or does it simply say that anything that you install becomes a fixture and so it's theirs? I really doubt that any landlord in the world would ever say that your installation of a safety device which improves their rental property is grounds for terminating your lease. In fact, I think that if that ever came to be, you would have the world's easiest case in court. Also, have you asked if you can? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treesprite May 18, 2008 Author Share May 18, 2008 It's definately a lease violation. Most large apartment complexes would not allow it to be done. I'm not even supposed to fix the chain in the toilet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rascal May 19, 2008 Share May 19, 2008 Can't do it, I live in an apartment, but thankyou for offering! That's ridiculous. You can install a GFCI wherever you want. In fact, they are becoming more code than not, so it would be like bringing the apartment up to code in some circumstances. Any outlet within 2' of water/water source needs to be GFCI. What he said. It's definately a lease violation. Most large apartment complexes would not allow it to be done. I'm not even supposed to fix the chain in the toilet. Do it anyway. No one in his/her right mind is going to try to evict you for swapping out a regular outlet for a GFCI, especially if you have a licensed electrician do it for you. All grounding probes do is provide an alternate path to the ground. This does not mean it will be the exclusive path. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treesprite May 19, 2008 Author Share May 19, 2008 What he said. Do it anyway. No one in his/her right mind is going to try to evict you for swapping out a regular outlet for a GFCI, especially if you have a licensed electrician do it for you. All grounding probes do is provide an alternate path to the ground. This does not mean it will be the exclusive path. I don't think I want to risk it. Hopefully one day I'll have a house and not have to deal with someone else's rules. In the meantime being in this apt means I can get back and forth to work a full week on just 2 gallons of gas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lanman May 19, 2008 Share May 19, 2008 I don't think I want to risk it. Hopefully one day I'll have a house and not have to deal with someone else's rules. In the meantime being in this apt means I can get back and forth to work a full week on just 2 gallons of gas. Treesprite - do they come around monthly and inspect the place to that detail? If not - just keep the old one, and swap it back in when you leave. It really is that easy, once someone shows you which breaker to flip off. A common screwdriver is generally the only tool required. And even if you ask for permission, you'll probaby get it - it will probaby be code real soon to have GFCI for every outlet, except the bedrooms, which already have to be Arc-Fault interrupt in new construction. bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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