cleanup crew for food & detritus

[treesprite]

Im interested in hearing what people have to say about specific cleanup crew members being targeted for cleaning up leftovers from feeding, and if having such creatures there to eat up stuff is possibly itself contributing to any problems, given that those animals all produce waste too. I do not care to address algae control here.

 

It has come to my attention that nassarius snails are wonderful for things that land in the sand, but they tend (at least in my tank) to stay off the rock. Hernits I'm not sure if there are specific ones that are better suited for specific situations - size and aggression needs to figure in to those. Shrimp are great but I've decided that putting them in my tank would be bad for the nem and possibly snails (past cleaner shrimp was killing snails).

 

Any ideas and info is appreciated.

[lancer99]

I don't think that Nassarius snails are quite the panacea that we've heard them to be. I've seen a couple of posts that they are carnivores and not detrivores, and will quickly die if not fed.

 

Which is in keeping with my experience.

 

AFAIK Nassarius don't go onto the rocks...they are sand dwellers.

 

The giant Tonga Nassarius that I have on the other hand, I've never directly fed, but they pop up regularly when they smell food....they are from a BZA group buy, some three months ago?

 

It's funny to see them get so excited...they can haul @S# when need be!

 

As for hermits, I wish I had some better advice. They all (IME) will kill snails when they need larger shells. I've asked a couple of times on RC, but haven't gotten a good answer as to which are better.

 

I still think the best cleanup-crew is a DSB...

 

-R

[treesprite]

I don't think that Nassarius snails are quite the panacea that we've heard them to be. I've seen a couple of posts that they are carnivores and not detrivores, and will quickly die if not fed.

 

Which is in keeping with my experience.

 

AFAIK Nassarius don't go onto the rocks...they are sand dwellers.

 

The giant Tonga Nassarius that I have on the other hand, I've never directly fed, but they pop up regularly when they smell food....they are from a BZA group buy, some three months ago?

 

It's funny to see them get so excited...they can haul @S# when need be!

 

As for hermits, I wish I had some better advice. They all (IME) will kill snails when they need larger shells. I've asked a couple of times on RC, but haven't gotten a good answer as to which are better.

 

I still think the best cleanup-crew is a DSB...

 

-R

 

The onyx nassarius which are a dark color are teh predatory ones. The regualr nassarius and the Tonga nassarius are not predatory. Somewhere around here there's a thread where this was discussed. Problem with a DSB is it doesn't keep stuff from laying around in the tank, just deals with the nitrate it produces.

[lancer99]

Are you thinking of Ilyanassa obsoleta, commonly sold on eBay as Nassarius snails?

 

Problem with a DSB is it doesn't keep stuff from laying around in the tank, just deals with the nitrate it produces.

 

That is the point of a DSB...it recycles nitrates. The infauna reduce larger particulate matter to smaller particulate matter, the infauna use it as food and reduce it to smaller particles, and the process continues...eventually the bacteria on the aerobic/anoxic layer perform denitifrication.

 

-R

[jhn]

I just stick with nassarius snails, cleaner shrimp and serpent/brittle stars( no green ones though). The only crabs I keep in my system are commensals, which never leave their coral homes to cause trouble. Plus the various worm/pod species crawling around in my rock and DSB.

 

IME and what I've gleaned from others, nassarius snails are carnivores not detritivores or more aptly they are carrion eaters, so they are discriminating carnivores.

 

I've never had cleaner shrimp bother any snails. Are you sure the snails weren't on the way out already?

Edited March 16, 2008 by jhn

[jason the filter freak]

my sand sifting. star does a real bang up job of keeping the bottom of my tank crap free. i'll also put a brittle star in soon and i think I'll be set

[Highland Reefer]

When a snail consumes left over food, it processes this food further braking it down to simplier forms of chemical by products. This is a simple statement without going into a lot of details. These simplier forms of chemical by products are much easier for the reef system to deal with than if there were no snails there at all. The difference would be less toxins in the system with the snails. So to answer your question regarding, "Im interested in hearing what people have to say about specific cleanup crew members being targeted for cleaning up leftovers from feeding, and if having such creatures there to eat up stuff is possibly itself contributing to any problems", I would say that they are definately beneficial, and that the problems they create are much less than the benefits they provide, as long as you pick the right snails for your system.

[Highland Reefer]

The turbo snails I was sold, which I have no way of IDing, climb all over my rocks and do a good job eating algae. The only thing I found they do is knock over my frags, which I have not glued down yet. I do not know exactly wha they eat except what I was told at the LFS, which was detritus and algae.

[treesprite]

All I can say about nass snails (no onyx in my 65) is that when I feed the tank they come in mass exodus from the sand and eat what gets to the bottom that no fish or coral is going to eat. which to me is a blessing. No way to tell about detritus I guess.

 

I had a green brittle star once - sucker grew like a maniac and I had to feed it directly every other day so it wouldn't try eating a fish. It would go under archways and make it's body match the shape of it, waiting to drop on unsuspecting prey. Scary beast. Don't get one if you have small fish.

 

I have gazillion small brown-striped serpent stars with their arms sticking out all over the place - those are growing so maybe they're helping me out. They're now big enough that they can curl an arm about 2/3rds around my finger - about 10 months ago they were the size of the white mini serpents. I'm not sure how many there are - when I counted the ones in the areas of the rocks that I could get a good look at, I got up to 50-something so I'm guessing maybe as many as 100 of them. There are no smaller ones, which further inclines me to think that these are still juveniles with a lot of growing to do, as opposed to the white minis that keep growing in numbers but not in size. If they get big enough I'll be looking for new homes for most of them.

 

Turbo snails are aweseome for algae, but now that I know they are temperate climate snails I have second thoughts about having them. Putting them in a tropical tank can shorten their lives.... now I know why astreas and such always outlive them in my tank.

[Freezerburn]

nas snails are great imo they seem to only eat leftover foods, don't think they touch poo poo :(

[treesprite]

nas snails are great imo they seem to only eat leftover foods, don't think they touch poo poo :(

 

we need saltwater pleccotomas

[gmubeach]

I had a narsiuss snail eat a wounded pom pom crab once:) but never seen them eat anything else

[treesprite]

I had a narsiuss snail eat a wounded pom pom crab once:) but never seen them eat anything else

 

was it a dark colored nassarius? The dark ones are bad.

[Rascal]

Tree:

 

Some semi-random thoughts on the issue.

 

For me the key is diversity -- lots of different critters from various sources so that hopefully every niche is filled. I also try, when possible, to favor things that will reproduce on their own and reach stable populations in the tank. Ceriths, stomatella varia, mini-stars, spaghetti worms, bristle worms, fan worms, pods of all sorts, and other infauna of the DSB are all good examples of this. I would guess with your growing bristle star population you probably don't have a problem with detritus break down.

 

I also like nassarius for quickly getting at any uneaten morsels -- plus they are just cool to watch.

 

Sea cucumbers (the reef safe kind) do a very good job at cleaning the surface of the sand bed.

 

Stay away from "sand-sifting" stars -- they prey on sand bed life.

 

You are right to do a lot of research on snails before adding them to your tank, as a lot of them for sale in the hobby are really temperate species that don't last very long in our tanks. It is always a good idea to ask where they were collected from before buying them. In addition to ceriths and nassarius, I have a few trochus, and probably hundreds of nerite -- which I really like.

 

I removed all hermit crabs from my system last year before doing an interceptor treatment for red bugs, and decided to keep them out after that to see what the effects would be. My snails appreciated the change. I recently added a few mithrax crabs to help with a bubble algae problem, knowing the risks. I may come to regret that decision later.

 

One parting thought -- if you ever get to do any diving or snorkeling, or even just beach combing in or near a reef, take note of the density of clean-up crew critters you find if you look closely enough. They are literally everywhere.

[dschflier]

I agree with Rascal on diversity

 

as always I am alwful at remembering the names of the critters I have for clean up but I have tons of different types. different kinds of Crabs,snails, brittle stars, sea urchins as a whole I have been very happy with the job they have done. The only cleanup critter which has been a problem for me was my choclate chip star fish which ate polyps. From buys of peoples setups I have done over the years I have many different cleanup animals.

[treesprite]

So without the hermits, has there been any difference in the tank other than snails not being killed off? I like hermits just for the sake of liking them (except the snail killing), but would entertain the idea of reducing them in number

 

Don't sea cucumbers put out toxins if they get stressed or injured?

 

Due to hermits having a special preference for ceriths, I have been avoiding them. If I were to get rid of some hermits I would replace the ceriths whose shells are now walking around on crab legs.

 

I have an urchin that recently inadvertantly killed a feather duster and broke the tubes on the other 2 feather dusters - it wanted the hole in the rock in which I had rested them to keep them secure in one place. I think it just eats algae and it doesn't move around very much.