Brian's 120 Mixed Reef, 120 Aggressive

[Brian Ward]

Hello All,

 

Now that I'm finally settled into the area, I'm about to begin expanding my knowledge of the hobby beyond my 29gal BioCube to the 120 gal system I had intended to set up a year and a half ago before my move to this area. I'm planning to build this system into my basement living/theater room. The right side will be bordered by a brick wall, so the tank will be visible head-on and from the left. I've posted a scale drawing of my planned stand, cabinetry, and lighting scheme in my gallery. I'm still working out how to include the full sump, fuge, and hopefully a small frag tank within this footprint. I fully intend to pull a heavy-gauge wire and install an electrical sub-panel, running all outlets on GFCI breakers with multiple circuits. This is a work in progress and will likely take a while - due to time and financial constraints, seeing as how I'm all of 26 - all suggestions are welcome, and if anyone is handy, bored, or otherwise wants to help out, feel free to volunteer and I'll be in touch when I find a suitable spot.

 

~Brian

Edited February 7, 2010 by Brian Ward

[Rascal]

#1) don't buy that big monster chiller you're looking at, buy my undersized 1/10 hp arctica so I can upgrade and get the chiller I should have gotten in the 1st place. Just kidding. You should totally get the 1/3 hp chiller. I just didn't have the money at this time last year b/c I had already forked out a ton setting up my tank and I hadn't really budgeted for a chiller. That price is less than I paid for mine new, and it's 3 times as powerful. It's an absolute steal. Of course, if you decide it's not for you I can offer you a great deal on a 1/10 hp, used for 1 year.

 

Could you put a fuge in the small top cabinet on the right of the tank? I really like what Johnny did with the combo fuge / surge tank in his set up.

 

What are you going to do for flow in addition to the return? Closed loop? Powerheads?

 

As for lighting:

1st, for actinic supplementation I have tried PCs, T5s and VHOs. For pure color "pop" the VHOs absolutely blow everything else away. There is really no comparison. The T5s are a lot brighter, though. Right now I have 2 x 54W T5 actnic + (22,000Kelvin) combined with 2 x 110 VHO actinic and I really like that combination.

 

Just out of curiosity, why did you decide to go with 400W bulbs?

Edited August 8, 2007 by Rascal

[Brian Ward]

I decided on the 400W bulbs because a guy on here is offering a dual PFO pulse-start ballast for $150. Seemed like a good deal and that pendant is cheaper than the one I was looking at anyway. By my calculations, it's only an extra $8/mo in electricity to go 400W instead of 250W, and more light is supposed to be better.

 

For additional flow - I haven't completely throught it through, but powerheads is what I'm using in my BC and that's the way I was thinking about going here too. If anyone has pros and cons, I'd love to hear them - every time I talk to someone about this project it gets more complex.

 

~Brian

Edited August 8, 2007 by Brian Ward

[davelin315]

Hey Brian, what type of bulbs are you using in your system? Also, reflectors have a big impact on the amount of lighting that makes it to the tank. Typically you should choose a bulb and color and then choose the ballast and reflector based on your choice.

[Brian Ward]

I'm not completely sure what bulb colors I like just yet. I picked up some PFO ballasts pretty cheap, and planning to run SE MH w/ VHO Super Actinic. I'll probably match the pendant/reflector to the ballast and the PFO Horizontal Pendant w/ Mogul base socket fits into my design:

 

http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~idProduct~PF2653.html

 

and probably go with the Hamilton 10000k bulb:

 

http://www.marinedepot.com/ps_ViewItem~idProduct~MB8411.html

 

I'm still working on all the plumbing and electrical in my head - looking at the PanWorld group buy and trying to figure out what I need to get in on that. I have a Mag12, but I think I'm going to need more than that to run my sump, fuge, chiller loop and closed loop. I want to wire outlets in the back for all my equipment to connect to, while using timers that are easily accessible to control each of the outlets. Shouldn't be too hard. I'll run each outlet off something like this:

 

http://www.leviton.com/OA_HTML/ibeCCtpItmD...p;section=17138

 

I need to check that it will work with ballasts for the lighting, but it will give an easy-access manual override to kill the pumps for feeding, run the lights out of cycle, etc.

 

I have the drywall torn out in the space I'm going to build the stand and started cutting/joining the frame last night. Pictures forthcoming..

 

~Brian

Edited August 14, 2007 by Brian Ward

[davelin315]

Make sure to read the fine print on the timer, there are some that are not designed to be used with certain types of lighting. I have a couple of timers that say that they are not to be used with fluorescent lighting. Not sure why and what the problems might be, but I'm avoiding them all the same.

 

Be sure and test out your bulb and ballast combination to see if it's what you like. I have a friend who just replaced the PFO DE 250W pendants with the PFO Solaris, 2nd generation, because they were burning the bulbs out. The first set he had were recalled because they kept on arcing and catching on fire.

[Brian Ward]

Weekend construciton has gone fairly well. I've finished the frame for the stand and the beginnings of the canopy frame. I'll have to see what the cabinet doors bring before I can do too much on the canopy - it's mostly dependent and what I need to attach the doors.

 

I put the tank up on the stand to see what it would look like, as well as to get more precise measurements and figure out how everything will work together before I order the cabinet doors (which I got a quote on today, and definitely cannot afford to have any of those not fit).

 

I've got to sand and put a couple coats of polyurethane on the stand and canopy frame, pick up a rubber membrane to line the floor and inside of the stand with (to contain the inevitable spill) and work on framing out the rest of the cabinet, as well as pluming and electrical. Speaking of electrical - anyone know where I can pick up some Square D QO GFCI 15A breakers for less than $50 each? Even eBay doesn't seem to be much help on this one.

 

Take a look at my pics. Space is so limited on here, I've put them in a Picasa share, here's the link. Let me know what you think.

 

http://picasaweb.google.com/brward5/FishTankStandBuild

 

~Brian

[Brian Ward]

So after doing more research, I've decided to scratch the timer idea and go with a "real" monitoring system. Probaly a Reefkeeper 2, but looking at others as well (Aquacontroller Jr., not sure if there are any others). If anyone has any experience with any of these, I'd much appreciate some insight.

 

I pulled the main electrical feed for the tank last night - about 45' of 6-3 wire (copper is horribly expensive right now). I'm dedicating a 50A circuit in my main panel to the sub-panel (GFCI protection will be on the big breaker - much cheaper than protecting the individual circuits or outlets) with up to 6 15A circuits for the fish equipment. I'm going to work on the rest of the wiring this weekend, as well as putting some coats of polyurethane on the stand frame.

 

I'm trying to include a frag tank in the stand, and I think a 30"Wx18"DX20"H is about the right size. It's probably easiest to make this myself out of acrylic, but I have no idea how to do this. Anyone have suggestions? Since space is at a premium (DC rowhouse and all), I'm planning to mount this on a slide-out drawer inside the stand. Accuride makes some industrial strength slides designed to carry up to 500 lbs, so that's what I'm considering:

 

http://www.accuride.com/products/industria...;c=heavyduty_ie

 

This company in MD is a distributor, so I'm going to get in touch with them:

 

http://www.hitechfasteners.com/

 

Plumbing is forthcoming - probably a couple weeks out since Hokie Football is coming into season - I'm actually going to attend some games this year instead of selling all my tickets! I'm planning to drill the back of the tank for a closed loop - and figuring out how to plumb the chiller and where to place it is my biggest concern right now. I want to put it outside (the tank backs up to an exterior wall that goes under the front porch) to reduce noise, but I'm not sure about drilling out the bricks. Anyway, focus on the electrical for now, that's what i know, and get to the plumbing later.

 

~Brian

[YBeNormal]

All you ever wanted to know about controllers but were afraid to ask:

 

http://www.wamas.org/forums/index.php?show...p;hl=controller

[dbartco]

- probably a couple weeks out since Hokie Football is coming into season - I'm actually going to attend some games this year instead of selling all my tickets!

~Brian

 

Now we are talking. Let me know if you do want to sell any... EE grad?

 

You have a qt setup somewhere in there?

[Brian Ward]

I usually sell a few games - the way some of the tickets sell it's hard for me to justify going to the game. Miami about 2 years ago we got about $1500 for our block of 4 tickets!

I'm pretty sure I'm skipping Ohio, W&M, and UNC this year. I'll definitely post up here when I know for sure I have some to get rid of. Oh, I have a pair and I'm usually looking for someone to go to the games with me - friends have wives and girlfriends that are way too into Hokie football to for either of them to go without the other :(

 

EDIT: oh, CpE grad - it's half an EE

 

~Brian

 

Now we are talking. Let me know if you do want to sell any... EE grad?

 

You have a qt setup somewhere in there?

Edited August 24, 2007 by Brian Ward

[Brian Ward]

You have a qt setup somewhere in there?

 

I'm thinking about the qt but I can't decide where to put it. I want to find a spot in the stand to mount it, similar to the frag tank and I'll want to have it 30+" long since I know I'm going to need to qt tangs. Just not sure where to put it yet. Space seems to be filling quickly :(

 

~Brian

[jason the filter freak]

 

I'm thinking about the qt but I can't decide where to put it. I want to find a spot in the stand to mount it, similar to the frag tank and I'll want to have it 30+" long since I know I'm going to need to qt tangs. Just not sure where to put it yet. Space seems to be filling quickly :(

 

~Brian

 

If you want to do a group buy on these or just an order from glass cages... though I don't know if they'll be any discount I think a perfect tank for the price and size for a QT set up would be

 

[phisigs79]

I believe they charge you a $50 pickup fee for tanks in manassas. They usally come once to twice a year and they came last weekend. So it could be awhile. checkout the website for schedule

[Brian Ward]

If you want to do a group buy on these or just an order from glass cages... though I don't know if they'll be any discount I think a perfect tank for the price and size for a QT set up would be

 

Edited August 24, 2007 by Brian Ward

[Brian Ward]

Construction this weekend went fairly slow. I found a minor problem with the second part of my cabinet frame (mostly a fit issue) so I have to rebuild that. I'm ready to begin running the electrical, but I guess I need to seal the 2x4s first (I hate painting). I have some polyurethane I was planning to use, but someone suggested I go with a Sherwin-Williams 2-part epoxy. Any opinions on polyurethane vs the epoxy vs leaving the wood bare?

 

Next question is that I'm not planning to enclose the wall studs behind or floor joists above the tank. If sealing the wood is necessary for the frame, would it also be necessary for these other wood pieces? Or does it have to do with the load-bearing nature of the stand frame? Oh, the floor joists are about 100 yrs old, too - they are 2-bys that are actually 2" wide!

 

As far as controllers, looks like the AC3 is the winner, probably with a DC8 socket block and the AquaSurf circulation pump controller. Are there ever any good deals on these, or is it just easier and more reliable to buy retail from the vendor? Also, does anyone monitor ORP? Do you find this useful? Only other question would be is it worth the extra money to go to the lab grade probes?

[Rascal]

I'm dedicating a 50A circuit in my main panel to the sub-panel (GFCI protection will be on the big breaker - much cheaper than protecting the individual circuits or outlets) with up to 6 15A circuits for the fish equipment.

 

Only problem with this is you are putting all of your eggs in one basket. If one device trips it, your entire system will be without power until you figure it out and re-set the breaker. It might be better to have each circuit on a GFCI, and spread-load your pumps between circuits (ex: return pump on one, closed loop and/or powerheads on another). That way if something trips you will still have some flow and oxygenation going on in your reef.

 

Sometimes figuring out what tripped the GFCI is obvious, and sometimes it requires unplugging each and every cord one at a time and re-setting the GFCI each time until you can discover the problem. With your entire system on one GFCI this could prove to be a pretty big PITA.

 

Out of curiosity, what are the advantages / disadvantages of using GFCI breakers as opposed to outlets? I think I remember reading somewhere that the outlets are more sensitive, and they are certainly less expensive, but is there a trade-off in reliability and longevity there?

 

I haven't done this yet, but I also liked Davelin's idea of using an Arc-Fault Circuit Breaker to prevent fires coupled with GFCI outlets to prevent electrocution.

Edited August 27, 2007 by Rascal

[Brian Ward]

Only problem with this is you are putting all of your eggs in one basket. If one device trips it, your entire system will be without power until you figure it out and re-set the breaker. It might be better to have each circuit on a GFCI, and spread-load your pumps between circuits (ex: return pump on one, closed loop and/or powerheads on another). That way if something trips you will still have some flow and oxygenation going on in your reef.

 

Sometimes figuring out what tripped the GFCI is obvious, and sometimes it requires unplugging each and every cord one at a time and re-setting the GFCI each time until you can discover the problem. With your entire system on one GFCI this could prove to be a pretty big PITA.

 

Out of curiosity, what are the advantages / disadvantages of using GFCI breakers as opposed to outlets? I think I remember reading somewhere that the outlets are more sensitive, and they are certainly less expensive, but is there a trade-off in reliability and longevity there?

 

I haven't done this yet, but I also liked Davelin's idea of using an Arc-Fault Circuit Breaker to prevent fires coupled with GFCI outlets to prevent electrocution.

 

 

Hmm... I actually don't know here. My original plan was to do multiple GFCI breakers for exactly this reason. The reason I switched is 15A breakers are $60 each and the 50A GFCI breaker is about $150, so there was a little savings there - but that may not be worthwhile. As far as breakers vs outlets, my thought was to do breakers in order to provide more available outlets, all GFCI protected. This design was before I decided to purchase a controller, which may make the issue moot. I'm still planning to have a fair amount of equipment not on the controller - integrating a qt and frag tank. I'll have to look at the cost, but I think the GFCI breakers give me more flexibility, and I want to have switch controls in various places, and the breakers would provide GFCI protection to the switches as well - in case they were splashed - correct?

 

I hadn't thought about the Arc-Fault issue. Maybe I should use a 50A Arc-Fault breaker in the main panel and a series of 15A GFCI breakers in the sub-panel? I'm at the limits of my electrical knowledge at this point, but definitely want to learn about proper design here. Insight?

[Rascal]

I'm at the limits of my electrical knowledge at this point, but definitely want to learn about proper design here. Insight?

 

I'm afraid your limits of electrical knowledge far exceed my own. I just know a lot about what can go wrong on an aquarium system, especially when you are still working out the kinks.

 

As far as the GFCI outlets vs breakers though, it was my understanding that as long as you had 1 GFCI outlet on a circuit, everything downstream from that was protected. There must be some advantage to the breakers, though. I think the electrical code now requires them for children's bedrooms.

 

The Arc-Fault technology interests me a lot - mainly b/c the thought of a house fire scares me a lot.

[Brian Ward]

I'm afraid your limits of electrical knowledge far exceed my own. I just know a lot about what can go wrong on an aquarium system, especially when you are still working out the kinks.

 

As far as the GFCI outlets vs breakers though, it was my understanding that as long as you had 1 GFCI outlet on a circuit, everything downstream from that was protected. There must be some advantage to the breakers, though. I think the electrical code now requires them for children's bedrooms.

 

The Arc-Fault technology interests me a lot - mainly b/c the thought of a house fire scares me a lot.

 

OK, for those that are interested, I did a little research and it seems that Arc-Fault or AFCI breakers are available only in 15A and 20A varieties. They are designed to protect mainly the wires directly connected to that branch of the circuit (wires in the wall) and provide some, although less protection to wires and devices connected to the circuit. The situation it is designed for is where you have hung a picture and the nail/screw grazed the insulation, or in older houses where the insulation is worn. The breaker then monitors the current flow through the branch and when it becomes unusual - i.e. there's probably an arc somewhere - it trips, killing power to the branch. As of January 1, 2002, all new installations in the U.S. require AFCI breakers for bedrooms - in Vermont they have gone a step further and required it for all residential circuits. Also, these generally cannot be used in combination with GFCI components unless they are specifically labeled for combination use.

 

So... considering how most of my components will be connected, and the higher need for GFCI protection, the AFCI breaker does not seem to have been designed with this purpose in mind.

[Rascal]

Very good info. Thanks.

[Brian Ward]

So a few more decisions made:

1- I'll be sealing the wood with Sherwin-Willliams oil-based Tile-Clad Epoxy. This is on the recommendation of one of the owners at Scales. After checking out the datasheet, it's pretty bulletproof. If you want to check it out, here's a link:

http://www.sherlink.com/sher-link/ImgServ?...r-link/temp/dp/

 

2- Frag tank will be placed on the right side, lower cabinet and will be an AGA 29. I actually wanted a 20H, but Petco had the 29 - and that would work for me. This tank, as well as the MH light mounted above it will be on 30" slides for the occassionally necessary moving and maintenance. These are the slides I've chosen if you'd like to check it out:

http://www.accuride.com/products/industria...;c=heavyduty_ie

 

3- QT tank will be a 50 breeder and will be placed under the 2 main front doors (directly under the display). I'm going with the larger QT in case I need to have multiple fish in there at once. I haven't decided on slides for this one, though it's a definitely possibility. There are a few engineering challenges to overcome due to placement, etc of this tank in order to place it on slides.

 

I'm hoping to plumb the QT tank such that it can either be connected to the rest of the system or not. That will give me an extra 50 gal of total volume when I'm not in QT mode, as well as providing a spot to place fish that may be a problem, or just in the way while I do work in the tank. I'm thinking this will also be an excellent way to do water changes - isolate 50 gal in the qt, set the valves into bypass mode, change the water in this tank and reset the valves.

 

Things are coming along. I hate painting so I'm not looking forward to doing the finishing work on the frame. I'll be out of town Saturday at the VT, ECU game - GO HOKIES! but the long weekend should hopefully allow me enough time to make some progress.

 

~Brian

[Brian Ward]

OK, I think I've recovered from that horrific loss to LSU. But at least Tyrod Taylor was impressive! He is going to be fun to watch - hopefully he'll stay out of trouble unlike his predecessors (Michael Vick, Marcus Vick, and Allen Iverson is actually from the same area). But hey, Redskins won their opener so it's not all bad. On to fish update.

 

I got the whole stand coated in the epoxy - excellent stuff - and have it set up with the tank on the stand. I filled the tank partially with tap water to get some extra weight to have the stand settle out and help me level it. The concrete floor is horribly uneven, so many shims were required. I now have the water level varying less than 1/16" across the 4' run of the tank, so I figure that's not too bad. I've decided to go with individual 15A GFCI breakers to avoid all the power being cut with a single ground-fault. Luckily I found a guy that might be able to get them for me for much cheaper than the $60/ea Home Depot wants for them.

 

I'm working on the electrical work - hanging a general strip light for maintenance lighting in the enclosure, and working on where to position additional outlets and switches. I'm pretty sure I want a set of switch-controlled outlets on the front of the stand (hidden by the doors, of course) for water change pump control - much easier than plugging and unplugging the pump as the water is moved.

 

I'm heading over to Dan's tonight to take a look at his ACIII, outlet integration with override switches and to talk about plumbing. I know I'm going to put in a closed loop in addition to the normal filtration flow, but I'm not sure whether to drill the back of the tank to do it, or do an over-the-top configuration. I'm also planning to include my chiller in this loop - it seems like the best place to get the high flow the chiller needs, and I don't think it will disrupt the closed loop any.

 

My big concern right now is cooling and a moisture barrier to keep the humidity from entering the walls and ceiling. I think I'm going to plumb some air duct to carry the heat and humidity out of the space and use some of the attic fans with built-in thermostats/humidistats to move the air. They provide a lot of movement, noise would be my only concern.

 

Next step is to install the rubber membrane to contain any spills, using nails and silicone to hold it in place, install the RO system that came in yesterday, and continue the electrical work.

 

Pictures forthcomng. I will update and include link when I get them posted.

 

Please feel free to comment. I'm always looking to learn more.

 

~Brian

[Brian Ward]

So it seems that I'm acquiring an additional 120 this weekend. I'm going to try and get this set up right away, so that will slow progress on the other tank. This one is going in the living room as a FOWLR - my big debate with the first 120 was whether I wanted a reef or fish that aren't reef-safe. This answers that question as I'll have both. The stocking list for the new tank (bought from BeltwayBandit) is looking something like this:

 

3 Yellow Tang

1 Blue Hippo Tang

1 Angelfish (not sure of species)

1 Butterfly Fish (not sure of species)

1 Foxface

1 Six-Line Wrasse

1 Picasso Trigger

1 Niger Trigger

 

This may be entirely too many fish for a 120, I need to keep researching. The triggers are the focus for this tank as I definitely cannot have them in my reef tank. Since this tank comes with a stand, lighting, and plumbing, I'm hoping setup will be fairly easy and I can begin cycling by the end of the weekend. I do have to work a couple baseball games in there (I'm an umpire) so it's going to be pretty busy. Maybe I can put the girlfriend to work on it? Well since she's been my "girlfriend" for about 4 days, that may be pushing things ...

[BeltwayBandit]

That probably is a tad heavy on the fish load.

 

One other suggestion, since the tank will be a fowlr order a new harness for the VHO ballast. It currently has a 2 cap harness but the ballast will run up to 4 VHO bulbs. Take the MH moguls off of the reflector and replace with 4 vho. Just my suggestion.

 

4 lamp harness:

http://www.hellolights.com/index.asp?PageA...&ProdID=361