Flow through sump

[jason the filter freak]

I'm planning on doing the "Herbie" for draing (check RC if you don't know what this is) method on my 75 gal that I'm setting up soon. I'm goin to run a sump somewhere in the 20-40 gallon range.

 

Should i base the amount of flow though the sump on the size of my tank or the thoughtput on my skimmer, or the size of my sump?

 

I'm going to have pretty strong flow in my tank via powerheads or a closed loop so I'm not so woried about my return pump being strong.

 

Input out there?

[Grav]

How about either a short description of the herbie or a link to the rc thread?

 

Unless herbie changes things...

 

If you are getting all the flow in tank from PHs and CL then you could do just about whatever you want... based on the sump design. Will you have a fuge?

[flowerseller]

Is that Herbie the luv bug?

[jason the filter freak]

"Great work Tigah, very helpful diagrams too.

 

I would like to add though to anyone who is starting out, that using a stockman or durso design should only be done if you don't have a better alternative. If you are building a tank and are able to have two drain bulkheads, then the simplest and quietest way of getting water to your sump is the "Herbie method" (search on RC).

Baisically you don't use a standpipe at all on your drain - just a naked bulkhead. The diference is that you put a ball valve on the drain pipe to the sump and close the valve until the water is draining at the same rate as the pump is putting out. By opening and closing the valve a little bit you can adjust how high the water level is in your overflow box. For example. if the surface of the water is 7" above the bulkhead, there is no possible way that any air can go down the bulkhead and this equals zero noise. It also means no vacumes or venturies to mess with. Another advantage is that, because no air is getting into the sump, it is just as quiet as your overflow and will not boil or 'hot tub'. There is no noise or bubbles.

The second bulkhead is necessary to serve as an emergency drain if the primary ever got plugged. Put a standpipe on it and have the top of it up by the top of your tank. If the primary ever got plugged and the water level started to rise, it would just drain safely through this one. I had my setup for over a year and never had to adjust the ball valve and never had a blockage, but I still wouldn't risk running it without a back up drain.

Let me know if this doesn't make sense. I was fortunate enough to learn it early on in my reefing career and it might be the most useful piece of knowledge I have come across.

 

- Chad"

[Grav]

Okay,

 

So herbie really has nothing to do with what is going on in the sump.

 

 

I would say, depending on the design of the sump and how water gets to and from the skimmer, you want at least 1.5 as much water through the sump that the skimmer is turning. If you plan to have a fuge, you only want to turn around 10-15x the FUGE volume through the fuge... but again, depending on how you designe it, that isn't nessicarilallay the same amount that is going through the sump.

[davelin315]

OK, the "Herbie" method sounds ridiculous. Unless your system is perfectly balanced, good luck getting this to stay perfect. Try and emulate this in your bathroom sink by plugging up the drain and allowing the water to go into the overflow. If you work on it long enough, you should be able to accomplish a constant water level with very little noise. Now think of your tank where you will have a drain that may or may not be submerged in your system. If it's submerged, it'll create backflow pressure and throw off the drainage from the tank. If it's not submerged, you'll get a tremendous amount of splashing from a solid column of water going into your tank (which is what this method seems to suggest you will need). Also, I can't imagine that you'd be able to keep this amount of water that constant. Let's say that you have your powerheads in your tank and one of them is creating turbulence in your tank at the surface. When the surface agitation is flowing towards the overflow it will cause a tiny bit more water to go over the edge, when it's not, less water will flow. There's no way to control these inconsistencies.

 

Now, I may be very wrong about this method and haven't gone over to RC to take a look at people's results, but it sounds like a plain and simple bad idea. Just go with the durso or stockman which will give you a reliable and quiet method for draining. I have too many doubts about this type of drainage.

 

As far as your flow through your sump, have it be what you need. Remember, you don't need to have that much water flowing through your sump, but if you have tons of agitation in your display but the water doesn't go down to the sump enough to feed your skimmer then you're not making your skimmer do its job by not introducing dirty water. Too little flow and you won't get the chance to mechanically clean your display.

[bigJPDC]

Oh no, not a herbie thread disintegration. Not sure if this is a thing to be advising for anyone who is starting out BTW - the standard MegaFlow that comes with any AGA RR tank is very very easy to assemble and tune and to make bubble and noise free.

 

Jason, what's the largest tank\GPH pump you have a herbie system on?

[AndrewB]

Not to digress on the Herbie... The taller the overflow box, the easier it is to moderate flow. The question isn't so much how much water is flowing through the bulkhead, but what head pressure is required to move an equivalent amount while maintaining a certain water level in the overflow. There is, however, one major problem with this system. If anything clogs the restriction point (valve), you're screwed. I suspect most people here with overflow boxes can tell you about fish that have jumped into them... My favorite was a jawfish that managed to create a burrow with all the macro algae growing in the bottom of the overflow box.

 

On sump flow, I like reducing to about 1-2 times the skimmer capacity like suggested above and using heavy flow inside the tank. It's a difference of style though, and only works well with high-quality skimmers.