Guest Rileyporter May 22, 2007 Share May 22, 2007 A few of my fish have developed some white little bumps all over them. It started with my neon gobie and now has spread. Any advice? I really cant catch them is there any treatment that I can start? Riley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davelin315 May 22, 2007 Share May 22, 2007 Sounds like our favorite parasite, ich. Is it small bumps or is it larger bumps that appear to be under the skin? If it's the latter, it's not ich. Depending on what's in your tank, you could try hyposalinity or medicate. Some of the medications say they won't harm corals, but I have had mixed results. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Rileyporter May 22, 2007 Share May 22, 2007 Sounds like our favorite parasite, ich. Is it small bumps or is it larger bumps that appear to be under the skin? If it's the latter, it's not ich. Depending on what's in your tank, you could try hyposalinity or medicate. Some of the medications say they won't harm corals, but I have had mixed results. small bumps on the outside of the skin. what level of salt should my tank be at for the treatment.. i run at i think 25 ish. Riley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davelin315 May 22, 2007 Share May 22, 2007 Well, I have never done hyposalinity, but from what I understand it should be at 1.009 or so for at least 6 weeks. Can someone chime in here with the correct formula? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Almon May 22, 2007 Share May 22, 2007 Would the addition of a UV filter help remove Ich that has already formed on fish or does it simply prevent Ich from forming? Or neither? from what I understand it should be at 1.009 or so for at least 6 weeks 1.009? Won't that just about kill all the corals...and fish.....and inverts.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason the filter freak May 22, 2007 Share May 22, 2007 Riley I have a nice 20 gal high qt tank with (big) filters, heaters, tops, lights, you can borrow if you'd like. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davelin315 May 23, 2007 Share May 23, 2007 Would the addition of a UV filter help remove Ich that has already formed on fish or does it simply prevent Ich from forming? Or neither? 1.009? Won't that just about kill all the corals...and fish.....and inverts.... Yes, it will eventually kill all of the corals for a variety of reasons. That's why hypo is not recommended if you have corals. Ich has about a 4 week life cycle so if you deprive it of hosts in the main system then it'll die off after about 6 weeks. Normally, you quarantine/treat the fish and leave the tank hostless for the 6 weeks and then you should have an ich free tank until you accidentally introduce it again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fab May 23, 2007 Share May 23, 2007 You really need to look into the life cycle of 'ich' to understand how to treat it for the long haul and not get lulled into a foreshortened treatment that will virtually guarantee a resurgence, or two or three or ... I don't remember the detailed time lines here, but a quick google on "ich" should tell the story. The problem is that the visible parasite (small white bumps/spots) will drop off the fish after a while. Then they are at a new stage in the life cycle, on the bottom of the tank, not on the fish. After a while they become free swimming parasites and re-infest the surviving fish in the tank anew. ... and the cycle repeats and repeats and ... So the trick is to kill them when they are not on the fish. As I recall, you need to be setup to kill them when they are in the free swimming stage. A UV filter should do pretty well here for those free swimmers who swim freely into the UV sterilizer chamber, but it won't touch those that don't make their way into it. Rather, those will survive handily and the cycle repeats and repeats and ... This is the reason that quarantine methods are so appropriate. By removing the infested fish from the display tank while you can still see the parasites, you have the chance to move all of the parasites into the quarantine tank where you can deal with them away from your display tank. You can do a lot of things to the fish in the display tank to fight the ich while it is on them. There are benefits in elevating the temperature. That accelerates the life cycle of the parasite. When the parasites fall off the fish, it looks to be cleared of the problem. Move the fish to yet a second quarantine tank, and get rid of the parasites in the first quarantine tank by whatever means suits you. You can now let the time frame for a life cycle to repeat itself while the fish are in the second quarantine tank. If the parasites reappear, wait for them to abandon the host fish and rotate back to the first quarantine tank. All the while you are playing musical quarantine tanks you can be doing all the treatments and witchcraft you can learn about to kill the parasites. When you finally have out waited a full life cycle of the parasite and had no recurrences, it is time to decide about re-introducing your rehabilitated little critter back into the display tank. Meanwhile back at the display tank... all the while you are quarantining your sick squad, you can be running UV sterilization, BIG TIME, on your display tank to try to catch any of the parasites that may have escaped your removal attempt when you first quarantined the infested critter(s). If you see other fish showing up with the 'ich' spots, you can move the newly infested fish into your quarantine protocol until at least a whole life cycle of time goes by without any fish showing signs of 'ich' in any of your tanks, including the display tank. Worst case is you eventually end up with all of your fish in quarantine. If you get that far, you can consider drastic water changes in the display tank while you swimming community is away in quarantine. And set up so that all of the display tank water is cycling through UV Sterilization, frequently. This is a heavy duty divide and conquer protocol. You can look up the details yourself on the timing of the parasite's life cycle and its stages. Likewise you can look up or consult on the chemical wizardry you might bring to bear on the critters in quarantine to increase the probability of actually ridding both them and your display tank of residual parasites in various life cycle stages. Basically, a PITA to deal with. Aside from all that, it seems that stress can induce breakouts of 'ich.' So review your situation and see if you might have stressful conditions for the particular critters in your care. If so, then mitigating the stressful conditions can go a long way at least to making 'ich' appear to disappear. Good luck, fab Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dschflier May 23, 2007 Share May 23, 2007 (edited) I have not had ich for some time but what I have done in the past has worked for me. I attack from every way possible. I think the life cycle was like 14 days but I do this for about a month. I turn on my UV sterilizer I add garlic into the food of my fish If I have tangs I give them as much macro algea as they will eat I use a diatom filter( I have been told diatom is small enough to filter some parasites out) I use a reef safe product that kills ich I have never tried changing the salinity levels but I have been very sucesfull in the past at getting rid of ich this way. I give my tangs the macro algea not because I think it kills the ich but I think keeping them as healthy as possible during the stressfull time allows them to keep their strength to fight the parasite. Just my 2 cents. Good luck Edited May 23, 2007 by dschflier Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treesprite May 23, 2007 Share May 23, 2007 (edited) Is is cryptocarion or amyloodinium? People mix them up. Cryptocarion can only live without a host for a couple of days, while amylodinium can live for a couple of weeks without a host. I had amyloodinium several years ago and have been completely free of disease since then (YAY!). All I did was put the fish in QT for 2 months and treated them while in there with copper, while the parasite life-cycled itself out in the display. I did freshwater dips before putting the fish in the QT, and a couple times after that. Nothing died except for the parasite. Edited May 23, 2007 by treesprite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reelsteel May 23, 2007 Share May 23, 2007 (edited) I had the same thing happen 3 years ago. Spent 6 hours tearning down my reef to catch all the fish. I used the white papers from Steven Pro and went with the hyposalinty. Worked great, lost one fish during it and it was only because he decided to carpet surf. I used a 26 gallon tank with alot of PVC to let the fish hide. Here are the links to his papers. Good luck http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.php http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-10/...ature/index.php Edited May 23, 2007 by reelsteel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsaavedra May 23, 2007 Share May 23, 2007 I know UV will kill free floaters, but my understanding is that if you don't hyppo or qt and your tank gets ich by having a uv it will take a few cycles to eradicate the parasite. Meaning as an example: 10 Parasites Cycle 1 goes thru UV, kills 3 parasites and after on the next cycle 7 Parasites survive Cycle 2 goes thru UV, kills 3 parasites and after on the next cycle 5 Parasites survive Cycle 3 goes thru UV, kills 3 parasites and after on the next cycle 3 Parasites survive Cycle 4 goes thru UV, kills 3 parasites and after on the next cycle 1 Parasites survive Cycle 5 goes thru UV, kills 3 parasites and after on the next cycle 0 Parasites survive Cycle 6 goes thru UV, kills 3 parasites and after on the next cycle If your fish survive all those cycles wouldn't that kill the ich on the tank, however it would be a crime towards your fish but I'm assuming it would kill everything on the long run. I don't know if you guys understand what i'm saying. Raf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mling May 23, 2007 Share May 23, 2007 Will having a Cleaner Shrimp in the tank help ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rascal May 23, 2007 Share May 23, 2007 Will having a Cleaner Shrimp in the tank help ? IMO, yes. Having several of them will help even more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsaavedra May 23, 2007 Share May 23, 2007 I know UV will kill free floaters, but my understanding is that if you don't hyppo or qt and your tank gets ich by having a uv it will take a few cycles to eradicate the parasite. Meaning as an example: 10 Parasites Cycle 1 goes thru UV, kills 3 parasites and after on the next cycle 7 Parasites survive Cycle 2 goes thru UV, kills 3 parasites and after on the next cycle 5 Parasites survive Cycle 3 goes thru UV, kills 3 parasites and after on the next cycle 3 Parasites survive Cycle 4 goes thru UV, kills 3 parasites and after on the next cycle 1 Parasites survive Cycle 5 goes thru UV, kills 3 parasites and after on the next cycle 0 Parasites survive Cycle 6 goes thru UV, kills 3 parasites and after on the next cycle If your fish survive all those cycles wouldn't that kill the ich on the tank, however it would be a crime towards your fish but I'm assuming it would kill everything on the long run. I don't know if you guys understand what i'm saying. Raf Does any UV experts care to comment on this? I'll be interested to hear more about it from people like Craig (BB and Gator), Chip, Dan, Grav, ne0en, brk or anyone else willing to put their .02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rascal May 23, 2007 Share May 23, 2007 anyone else willing to put their .02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Almon May 24, 2007 Share May 24, 2007 How does ich form? Is always in the aquarium or must it be introduced by adding new fish, corals, or from the water that may come with the new arrivals? I've had saltwater tanks for 16 years and have never seen ich. Maybe I'm lucky....but I have also NEVER, EVER put any other water into my system other than new water, which until recently has always been tap water. How does this parasite get into your tanks? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
treesprite May 24, 2007 Share May 24, 2007 It comes from fish or water from tanks where it existed beforehand, which is why people should never put water from a new creature into the tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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