Acro Help

[ctreptow]

Hi All

 

I hope you someone can help me. I purchased a couple of Acropora from Dr Mac at the meeting on Saturday. The acro's have not come out and they are getting a brown tint to them. I can still slightly see their true color but I haven't seem any polyp extension at all.

 

All the other frags from the meeting seem to be doing well except for the Galaxia which hasn't come out much either.

 

The Acro's are placed under a Maxijet 1200 PH and are placed 4 inches from the top of the water under 175W MH with 130W PC Actinic.

 

Water Parms

 

Temp 80 - 82

SG 1.026

Alk 3.5 Mql

Cal 350

PH 8.0

Phos .1

Nitrate 2.5 PPM

 

Thanks Chris

[michaelg]

when you say brown, is it browning up from zooxanthalea increase or algae growing on dead skeleton?  Lack of polyp expansion isn't a good indicator when first introduced.  Also, check at night- many of my corals still only expand their polyps at night.  The galaxea should be in moderate water flow and light.  Typically on the bottom.

[Guest goblinshark]

I think that may be a little much for the acros, their zooxantelle may be over producing.

[xeon]

Of the few I bought from him (6 total), two are toast.  I am going to send them an e-mail.  I'm not sure if their "live" guarantee applies to the meetings.  Everything I got from the meeting is doing great.

[smarsh97]

Both of the acro frags that we bought at the meeting are toast. It appears they got RTN as they sluffed off in a matter of hours. Don't know what went wrong, but they were very very pretty.

 

However, the rest of the corals we got at the meeting are doing great!!!!!  

[Valab]

I bought 5 acro frags at the meeting.  Not seeing any polyp extension yet, but no tissue decay either.  Usually new frags that are destined to die in my tank look ok for 10 days or so before the tissue begins to wither off.  Keeping my fingers crossed.... ???

[Guest Yomeister66]

Hi All

 

I hope you someone can help me. I purchased a couple of Acropora from Dr Mac at the meeting on Saturday. The acro's have not come out and they are getting a brown tint to them. I can still slightly see their true color but I haven't seem any polyp extension at all.

Chris,

 

I had the same problem with my tri-color acro frag I bought. Moved it away from the Maxijet1200. It is now sitting about 2 inches below the waterline. (My 2x400W 6500K bulbs hang about 12 inches above the water). Observed some modest polyp extension within a few hours. I'm going to keep an eye on it for the next day or so, see what happens maybe I'll move the frag down a bit lower.

 

(Also bought a small blue-tip, red/rose table acro colony from Doc at the meeting. Put it in about the same spot as the frag, but on the opposite side of the tank....it's doing great....excellent color and fully extended polyps).

 

Good luck!

 

Johan

[Caribbean Jake]

Chris

Double check this information but for tank parameters for SPS - acroporas, (and anyone feel free to correct me), the calcium level should be between 420 and 460.  Nitrate should be less than 1.0 and best yet 0.00.  The PH should be 8.2 to 8.4.  At least that is what I read in the past.  The location of the corals is good but don't put it in front of the MaxiJet, maybe to the side of it will be an option.  Acro does usually take few days to acclimate to new parameters and environment.  

 

You acclimated?  What process did you used?  No acclimation may be your first error.

[ReefMon]

Acropora SP is the most delicate of the corals we keep in captivity.  You must have a stable system and optimum water parameters IE: Zero Am, No2 & No3, Alk 8-10 dKh, 400+/- Ca, pH 8.0-8.4 and temp between 77-83+/-.  They need intense lighting, most need MH, but some can survive under PC or VHO.  Water flow is extremely important, lots of gentle flow, but no direct blasts, pointing a powerhead directly at one is a sure way to damage or kill it.

 

Their skin is less than tissue paper thick, and it doesn't take much for them to stress out and either bleach (expel their zooxanthella) or to completely loose their tissue (dead)

 

Temperature  acclimation is the most important.  **Personally I float the bags just long enough to equalize the temp, then mount and place them in the tank without doing any water acclimation, my thinking is better water conditions are much more important than slow acclimation.

 

**This is my personal method, it works for me, but is generally not recommended!**

 

I picked up 4 frags from Dr Mac at the meeting, all of them are doing fine in my system, and I didn't get them home until around 10:00 that night.  

 

A side note, the frags Dr Mac had at the meeting were the first he's grown out under 100% natural sunlight, and the coloration of them is so much better that anything I've gotten from him in the past (grown under 20K MH's)

[krish]

Folks,

I got a call from Kannan about this issue.

He purchased the last SPS colony for 20 bucks.

He mentioned that when he got home and opened the package, it was

pretty bad.

 

So having lost 20 bucks, it did not stop at that.

A colony that he had for over a year is taking a hit as well.

The colony was placed near the one that came RTNed from Dr. Mac.

 

I had 2 frags RTN, the last year when i purchased from Dr. Mac.

 

So the story is, better to purchase from local reefers, where you can go and

get a fresh cut.

 

-krish

[GaryL]

Just an observation but, would the saltwater have anything to do with the RTN? i remember a while back many people who started switching around salt brands started doing large water changes and ending up with RTN. ie: IO to crystal seas Bio Essay. when volunteers brought water in was the water all the same? or the same as DR Mac's? what does dr mac use? when moved from dr macs supply to brought in water isnt that like doing a massive water change shocking the acro? just my questions what do you all think?

there is no doubt with the success that other people has had with dr mac that he has good stock. also maybe it was a sudden switch from natural sunlight to MH or pc as glenn stated above.

please post your thoughts.

[pedalpower]

My two frags (montipora digitata and bright blue acro) are doing well.  Polyps extended the following day.  I'm running 250w lights with 14K bulbs and I'm using Oceanic salt.

[dbartco]

Sometimes it is the luck of the draw. I bought 4 at the symposium from mac, and had one rtn in the bag on the way home. The others are doing great and I fragged them for this fall meeting. Those all shared the same water at that event.

 

The two frags I got at the meeting are doing awesome, coloring up a little more, and happy polyps. All in their own water. One frag that was part of the "fragfest" monti caps, I broke it in two when I got home, mounted together on the same rock, and one die and the other is fine.

 

So who knows? Obviously, the less stress the better. But I doubt it was the brood.

[ctreptow]

Well the acro's are still closed but they still seem the have slight color. The larger of the 2 the tricolor seems to be doing better. I just chalk most of this up to my inexperience. Thats why I waited until the end of the day to buy these.

 

 

As for the tank parameters I have to agree the tank is still too young and unstable but I got caught by acro envy and and thought well maybe.. We'll see.

 

Thanks Chris

[ctreptow]

update

 

The Tricolor has come back. It seems to be fully colored now, but I still have not seems any polyp extension. I have little brown circles where the polyps are supposed to come out, so I don't know if they are damaged. it seems like it has grown some since I purchased it so maybe time will tell.

 

Thanks for your help

 

Chris

[Valab]

Over a period of weeks my 5 acros from Dr. Mac all croaked.  It has been very hit-or-miss for me.  Some acros do great, others just die.  Guess I'll try again in a few months....

[ctreptow]

yeah I hear ya. My little guy is still hanging in. Still no polyp extension and no new growth, but no rtn or bleaching so I hope it comes around.

 

Chris

[Guest D33rex]

Ctre,

Im sure you probably know this, but pumping up your alk and calcium levels prolly wouldn't hurt.  At 3 and 350 Id guess Dr. Mac's levels are quite higher than yours.  Acros don't like those phosphates or nitrates either.  That is if your levels are still the same as your initial posting.

[Guest D33rex]

whoops, i see reefmon covered the essentials already sorry, i was just reinforcing what he said...yeah.....thats it....

[craby]

I also got acro envie at Dr. Mac's. I got 4 frags and lost 2 so far. I'm chaulking it up to my inexperience as well. I don't have all the bells & whistles, testing instruments, controllers, etc... & don't know if my water parameters are in line or not.

[michaelg]

From my experiences, bells and whistles are not nearly as important as tank maturity and stability.  An additional factor is oxygen saturation- this is where water movement and skimming really help.  From my experiences, if they make it past 2 months, then I start breathing a little easier.  For many, even frags from well established colonies, it can take some time for them to get going.  Some of mine, I still only see polyp extension at night, but they are hairy then, with polyps on many coming out up to 1/8".  As glenn mentioned, there are certain water parameters that you should strive for, but as I stated at the beginnig of this post, there is also an unknown factor that only comes with an aged tank.  Sometimes this can take up to a year.

[Lee Stearns]

Feeding Phyto is what will increase your natural pod production in the tank- you would be amazed at he amount of little pods that come out free swinmming at night even with a 6 line wrasse hunting the rocks all day. The pods in turn inevitably get trapped in the LPS and the Acros and are a good portion of some of the acros natural food. The pods natuarlly swim toward a flashlight - I have a blue lens one that I shine on my candy canes when they have their tenacles out and watch them get captured. You know a lot of other capturing is going on through out the entire tank with out your observation. Again just feed them and they will come. I think some of this as well as water stability is the "maturity" of the tank often referred to.

[cabrerad]

My understanding is that brown outs are fairly common in imported coral mini colonies.  Some of these corals have come from outdoor pens where conditions and lighting are very different from that in a tank. In addition, these corals have been through quite a lot before they got to us.  So although the coral may look quite nice when you buy it, chances are it's highly stressed.  So, provided you have a mature tank and water parameters sufficient for acros, you can still see brown outs.   It will take time for the coral to recover and adjust to the new tank conditions.  Even so, some corals do not make it in even optimal conditions.  I know I have seen threads about this subject at reefsorg and reef central, so searching the threads may also be a good idea.

[michaelg]

One thing that should be clarified in this discussion- "brown outs" are not a sign of unhealthy corals.  In fact I would say that ones that "brown Up" are more likely to survive.  The brown color comes from a boost in the internal zoxanthalae in the tissues.  These in turn help feed the coral.  IMO trouble is seen when tissue falls off the corals (usually a quick process), and usually bleaching is a bad sign (again usually this is quick).  Sometimes they can recover from bleaching, more often than not, they do not.  The colorful pigmentation seems lighting related- likely a UV type response is my impression at this point, though some aspects of water chemistry seem to come into play here as well- and the exact nature as to how this relates to the afformentioned "browning" increase in the symbiotic algae, is only correlative.   Nitrates and probably phosphates seem culprits- which would make sence, as they would favor algal growth.  

Polyp extension is a difficult thing to judge as well.  Especially daytime.  Extended polyps are needed however for prey capture from the water column, so if they "NEVER" open their polyps up, they are not getting much if any food.  

Finally, a sure sign that they are doing well- skeletal growth.  With frags, always look for encrusting at the base- usually this is where the coral grows first after fragging, and not on the tips.

[cabrerad]

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=475712

 

Above is a link to a discussion on acropora browning.  Many seem to agree that wild caught or grown corals will initially brown (increased zooxanthellae density, and also decreased UV protecting pigments) when introduced in the hobbyist's tank.  One individual did state browning is due more to increase in photsynthetic pigment density than symbiodinium density.  Comments?  

Some corals go back to their inital coloration, some don't.

Many seem to connect browning to lighting.  I imagine in the cases where the corals do eventually "color up" the initial browning is a compensation mechanism to the new conditions.  So is the interpretation that if the lighting is different than in the wild, but still sufficient, the corals will eventually photoadapt and begin to "color up"?

 I wonder if some of this is a way to compensate from the initial stress of transport (the repair of which is going to cut into the energy budget of the coral), although I did not see this mentioned.  

 Nutrients, especially nitrate are also cited as a cause of browning. I imagine this is a major factor in tanks where the corals do not "color up", or tanks where previousy non brown corals start to brown.  It does seem, however, that more remains to be learned on the subject.