More ICH!

[hbh]

Okay, My Hippo Tang has Ich AGAIN after being QT'd for 10 weeks in a 10 gal. After 1 week of Happily being back in my 55, it has a small case of ich again. Now it is midnight, and, yes, all would like stats, but I don't have my test kits yet and the local LFS is NOT open at this hour. I know that the tang has been greedily chomping down on lots of good food whereas he was NOT in QT despite not being sick! In QT he also had lost his color. The SGH is 1.25, temp is 80, water changed weekly 2 gallons out with 6 more gallons to top off. other stats have always been good in the past.

SO here's the debate: Treat the main tank as it has no corals currently other than a small kenya tree frag and 3 hermits or treat the fish in the QT OR GET RID OF THE TANG! I'm so sick of ich. ONLY the tang gets it! I can do HYPO on either tank or I can do cupermine on either tank which can be removed w/ water changes, charcoal and cuprisorb which I can do/ have all of that. I have done all of this to that tang and it does fine for either. Although Cupermine seems to suit him better as when he was in HYPO he got very ill. I know the debate on using copper in the main tank as well as on the fish itself vs. using hyposalinity. Now part 2 is if I treat the main tank in your alls experience does it kill of the ich? I can't isolate the tank to leave empty for 6 weeks as all my fish would NOT fit in my 10 gal QT.- it would be a little too tight! So what are the IMHO's?

[phisigs79]

did you QT all the fish? If not thats why

[stevil]

In my humble opinion: I suspect that its stress. How big is the hippo tang? From what I understand many fish will continue to carry Ick, even though they don't break out, their immune system keeps it in check until stress overtakes.

 

I don't know what your stock load is like, or how much other stuff you have in the tank, but if the fish doens't like the environment, it's probably stressed out.

 

I'd say trade the fish for something else. In the long run a hippo is going to out-grow your 55 gallon anyway (if it hasn't already).

[Jenny]

Like Phisigs said if you didn't QT all the fish that are in the main tank one of them was probably carrying it.

 

stevil is right too though that he'll outgrow your 55 and if you aren't planning on upgrading in the relatively near future you might as well get rid of him now.

 

But since he was in your main tank you'll have to QT everybody to be safe.

 

I'd take out all the fish you have in your tank and QT them all. Bring salinity down to 1.0009, then keep them for 6 weeks at 1.009, bring salinity back up over a 2 week period to what your main tank is.

This way you'll have a clean main tank. So if you QT all incoming specimens you should be safe.

 

How many fish do you have? If you have several you'll probably need a bigger tank. I bet someone has one you can borrow for awhile.

 

Also you should look into getting Marine Fishes by Scott Michael. It helped me tremendously when I first started to keep from buying fishes that I wasn't equiped to house or that would outgrow the tank.

[phisigs79]

Some people claim Kick Ick works well. You dont have corals and it seems like that might be your best bet. Hypo IMO does put alot of stress on fish, sometime prob more than a Ick outbreak. This is just my opinion. If you can live with it (most tanks can and do-most people dont know they have it) get rid of the tang (5 inch tang is way too bug for a 55g and that why it has ick-its stressed) and feed your fish garlic. If they get Ick they are stressed by something. Your tang is getting it because it doesnt have room to swim so it gets stressed and the Ick attaches to it. Tangs are the first to get Ick because they are easily stressed.

[Rascal]

IMHO . . . agree w/ phisigs except I wouldn't treat your main tank. It is possible for ick to go away (or at least stop manifesting symptoms) on its own if stressors are eliminated. On the other hand, IMO you won't ever be able to eliminate stress for a Hippo in a 55G. Either trade the tang or upgrade tanks.

[hbh]

Thanks for the IMO's. The tang was MORE stressed in QT. I don't think the tank is overstocked as I've stayed w/in the lower end/ cautious stocking limits.In the 55 is 3 green chromis, 2 PJ cardinals, 1 clown, 1 orchid/ strawberry psuedochromis and 1 hippo tang that came w/ the tank when it was bought. No one else has been sick in awhile. The tang is the one. In terms of swim space there is much open space for swimming and hiding due to building the tank w/ caves on the lower 1/3 and leaving the rest open to swim.As to removing all and letting it cycle, they won't fit in my 10 gal. Qt tank that ALL fish MUST be in for at least six weeks. As to the size of it he is a fat medium sized Hippo tang that eats anything BUT food tinged w/ garlic! It knows the difference. To this tang garlic is awful. I'm tempted to treat the tank w/ cuppermine ( I know- you are cringing) and then reverse it all BUT I don't want to lose my feather dusters attached to the rockwork. I am interested in upgrading to a larger tank eventually and I am also interested in seeing how the tang does after this next day or two as it seems to be fading. he has 2 spots left; 1 is the size of a pinhead and is pinkish/red. the others are nearly gone. HMMM... I think that in the end this guy will need a larger tank but I am unwilling to afflict someone w/ a hippo sick w/ ich. BTW, The tang came w/ this used tank. I knew that they were not a beginner SW fish. I almost refused him but where would he have been put after the tank left the former owner? Don't want to think of it. Again thanks for your comments and thoughts.

[YBeNormal]

Overstocked is a relative term. Some fish, even smaller ones of some breeds, need lots of open swimming room and can become stressed if they are in tanks with lots of obstructions, aggressive tank mates, etc. As others have mentioned, the tang really doesn't belong in a 55g tank and they do stress easily, so trading him for something more suitable is really the best option in my opinion.

 

IRT the 10g QT, you can do much better than that if space is not a major constraint. Any food safe container can be used for QT. Think Rubbermaid tub, Brute trash can or an old 55g tank hidden away in a warm area of your basement. It doesn't have to be pretty.

[phisigs79]

IMO a 4-5 inch hippo in a 55g is overcrowded.

[Sugar Magnolia]

FWIW I've used Kick Ich in my 30 gallon display with no ill effects to any of the corals/inverts, only because I didn't have a QT tank. I did end up losing my royal gramma, but the chalk bass and the yellow watchman both recovered and are doing fine. IMO though, your best bet would do as the others have advised.

[JMsAquarium]

FWIW I've used Kick Ich in my 30 gallon display with no ill effects to any of the corals/inverts, only because I didn't have a QT tank. I did end up losing my royal gramma, but the chalk bass and the yellow watchman both recovered and are doing fine. IMO though, your best bet would do as the others have advised.

 

 

Well, sure, copper based treatments do work well for the fishes in any kind of tank/container etc.. However with regards to the main dispay tank the issue is not the fishes but the corals and many of the inverts. They are the ones who will not make it if there is copper residuals in the tank, and usually, most of the shelf treatments for ick are copper based. These type of medications are better used in a non reef environment as the copper will never get completely away from the tank.

You can also add garlic, either fresh or extract to the food. It gives some boost to the fishes immune system. Now, tangs are more prone to ich than other fishes, Usually they will be the first ones to get it.

[Sugar Magnolia]

Well, sure, copper based treatments do work well for the fishes in any kind of tank/container etc.. However with regards to the main dispay tank the issue is not the fishes but the corals and many of the inverts. They are the ones who will not make it if there is copper residuals in the tank, and usually, most of the shelf treatments for ick are copper based. These type of medications are better used in a non reef environment as the copper will never get completely away from the tank.

You can also add garlic, either fresh or extract to the food. It gives some boost to the fishes immune system. Now, tangs are more prone to ich than other fishes, Usually they will be the first ones to get it.

Ruby Reef Kick-Ich is not copper based. It states on the bottle that it's reef safe - safe for all fish, coral and inverts. More info here - http://www.premiumaquatics.com/Merchant2/m...y_Code=Medicine

[Grav]

IMHO #1 a hippo in a 55 will get ICH on and off over and over again, unless in an ICH free system. Even without ICH, a hippo will never be happy in anything less than 90... really should be 120+

 

IMHO #2 Kick ICH works well, but I would not expect it to eliminate totally eliminate it. see IMHO #1. Re reef safe, I think it is 99.5%... I have seen it cause a feather worm to shed it's crown, but it recovered.

 

IMHO #3 Garlic works wicked good

 

IMHO #4 running the tank empty for 6+ weeks at higher temp would eliminate ICH from THE TANK

 

IMHO #5 FW dips and HypoSalinity QT with garlic and kick ICH SHOULD eliminate ICH from the fish

 

Final IMHO. The best prevention to ICH is low stress.

[phisigs79]

I just went through two weeks of Hypo and saw that it was very stressful on the fish. I did water changes every 3 days and both of them died this past weekend. How about Qting fish in a QT tank and treat them with a product like kick ick? Wouldnt this be less stressful?

[VicSkimmr]

I'd ditch the tang, they're renowned as being ich magnets.

 

Also, I was under the impression that ich is always in your tank, that every fish harbored the parasite within them and it would only present itself when the fishes immune system would drop due to stress. I've never understood why QT tanks were used as a preventative measure for ich, I would think they'd only be useful if the fish was already showing signs, to keep it away from the rest of the main tanks inhabitants.

 

Also, a UV sterilizer could go a long way to help with ich in your main tank.

[flowerseller]

Also, a UV sterilizer could go a long way to help with ich in your main tank.

Amen brother.

I still can't figure out why so many object to them.

No one has given a good enough reason not to other than "from what they've read or heard".

[ErikS]

I'd never CU any tank, but that's just me.

 

My .02? Stop moving the fish. Stress lowers the immune system = ich breakouts. Go with garlic & if that doesn't work maybe the kick stuff.

 

Disclaimer - I'm not covinced there is such a thing as an ich free tank. Ancedotal evidence says it can lay dormat for a long time.

[flowerseller]

Disclaimer - I'm not covinced there is such a thing as an ich free tank. Ancedotal evidence says it can lay dormat for a long time.

Have you heard this or read it?

[ErikS]

Have you heard this or read it?

Heard it, read it, seen it. Seen/talked to people who've had zero signs of ick for close to a year & blap.....an outbreak (some stressor w/ no new carrier). Read about the same circumstance.

 

Anecdotal, nothing more - kind of like those folks who say UV is bad

[hbh]

Oh Wow! This thread has taken off! let's keep it going. It appears that my tang has survived the few dots and it was not moved agian to QT in order to keep the stress levels down. I have ordered a UV sterilizer w/ the GB that ALOK put together. As to ditching my Tang, we really like it and as stated before it was part of the deal when this tank was bought used. BUT After there is no more sickness evident for 6-8+ weeks, then I'll discuss new home possibilities for it. I don't disagree with the possibility of a Hippo tang outgrowing a 55 tank. As to Kick Ich, if anyone has some they would like to give away I'd be willing to try it. In terms of low stress, I'd say this tang isn't very stressed, It swims freely, eats freely and hungrily anything BUT garlic flavored/imbibed foods! It gets nori daily, Zoe and Zoe Con daily, a rotation/variety of frozen foods and spirulina. It eats better than my dog! More variety, more food, more attention and nutritiously frozen food. It is the top fish in this aquarium.

As to an ich free system, well, it was ich free until my tang broke out! No one else got it, and no one else intro'd it that I know of and this fish was already in the system and I do QT all incoming species. So could it have been in the sytstem prior to my buying it? Yes. But can I really know how this came about? Problably not. So as it stands now for my tang and tank, I'm just watching it and going to put a UV into hopefully in the next week. I'm not moving anyone and I'm not going to assault anyone w/ more meds and stress right now.

 

Phisigs, Sorry for your loss. You've been wanting a tang for awhile. I hope the next does better for you. I too saw stress in my hippo in QT by the loss of color and signs of possible scrapings/sores from wanting to hide and not being able to due to no plave to hide like my main tank. BUT now that it's back in the main tank all the color and beauty has returned.

Take care you all.

Edited January 24, 2007 by hbh