BeltwayBandit

Here is some info I found: "Ground Fault Circuit Interrupters (GFCI or GFI) are special electronic devices to protect people from fatal electric shocks. Note, however, that you can still get a shock. There's an important difference between these devices and circuit breakers or fuses. Breakers and fuses are designed to disconnect power from a circuit when there is too much electrical current flowing. If too much current flows, the wires will overheat and create a fire hazard. Most circuit breakers are 15 or 20 amps, this equals 15,000 or 20,000 milli-amps. The bad news: it can take as little as 10 milli-amps to fatally shock someone. The good news: GFIs are designed to shut-off when it determines that only 5 milli-amps are "missing", presumably it could be shocking someone. " So the GFI monitors flow in vs. flow out on the hot and neutral side of the outlet. If an item is shorted out in an ungrounded tank, the tank will be at a higher potential relative to ground, but no current will be "missing" to the GFI until that tank is grounded by either the aquarist or a probe. In an ungrounded tank the only path back to ground is through the neutral leg of the circuit. In that situation the GFI sees current in = current out. In a grounded tank the shorted device will go to ground somewhere other than the GFI, it will then see current in > current out and trip. (Many of the common culprits are two prong plug items so there is not an alternate path to ground if they short out, other than through you.) So thats my $0.02 worth on this subject. My recommendation is a GFI and a grounding probe. Screw the fish (if it really is an issue to have current flowing through the tank when an item shorts), save the aquarist. As to my credentials I'm an Electrical Engineer with the US Coast Guard and I regulate power generation distribution and supply for commercial vessels.

But without a path to ground there is only a potential in the tank. There is nowhere for the current to go in an ungrounded system. The "leaking" current is like the nozzle on a charged hose, if you don't squeeze the handle the water doesn't move. So, going back to the tank situation where a device is shorted and "leaking" current, without a path to ground the system is at a higher potential but there is no current flowing, until the system goes to ground.

True, but if you do not have a path for that electricity to flow there will be no difference in potential between the hot and the neutral, until you stick your arm in the tank. That is where the grounding probe comes in. It gives a path to ground that is not the neutral leg, allowing the GFI to see the difference in potential between the hot and neutral leg. An example would be a garden hose. Put a pressure guage on the main line and it reads the house pressure, open the valve to the hose and the pressure remains the same, but when you open the nozzle the pressure drops. The GFI is like the pressure gage, it can't tell the difference between the charged hose and the uncharged hose because there is no flow. Once the nozzle is opened (i.e. a path to ground) the pressure drops. This is what the GFI is measuring the difference in potential (pressure in my example) across the legs. With an ungrounded tank there is not necessarily an alternate path to ground to allow the GFI to see that difference in potential. BB

Coun't me in on the pro-grounding crowd. From what I understand a GFI is a great investment (I have my tank on one). But, the water in the tank is basically ungrounded. Therefore, if there is a short and you are "leaking" current there is no path to ground and the GFI won't trip. The grounding probe provides that path, and allows your GFI to work properly. Without a probe, the aquarist is usually the path to ground when you stick your hand in the tank. I had a light fixture that was shorting out with condensation. The GFI didn't trip, until I stuck my hand in the tank and got zapped. BB

If you don't mind taking time, you can do a pice or two at a time of uncured rock. You should have enough biomass in there to handle any small cycle from the new rock without too much/any spike in your ammonia. The only problem, as with any new rock, is potential nuisance hitchikers.

Speaking of half baggers and the like. At least there were no three baggers... but anyway Ghanzafar will be picking up the bag that we are splitting. BB

oscarfish.com is also pretty decent. They have some fw forums that cover fish other than oscars. BB

How bout if I called them taupe acro's. Would you be interested in them then? :o BB

I am working with Eddi to get a list of everyone that has said they want to join in, what they have offered, and figuring out what we need. Hopefully I will get that finished up and posted over the weekend. BB

I have a cabbage leather and a very large piece of capnella (or 2 large pieces if I frag it) if anyone wants it. (By large I mean 6-8" tall when polyps are open and about 6" or so across. I'll try to post some pics of the capnella and the cabbage. BB

I can definately help with bringing some people food too. I have about half a large bag of golden pearls that I can donate to the tank food making cause. I'm fine with a later start time. I was just throwing some times out there to get the discussion started. We need to come up with a plan for ingredients, and who is bringing what. Are we going to divide up the ingredients (kinda like potluck fish food) or just have 1 or 2 people buy them and settle up at the party? Oh and one other note, I think we should not let Eddi pay for any of the tank food ingredients, since he graciously offered us a venue. Thoughts? BB

Actually, the picture does not do that coral justice. It is approximately 10" across, when polyps are retracted. I pulled a 6 headed frag off of it when we moved the tank and you couldn't even notice where it was missing from. I subsequently split the frag and shared it with Howard. I would guess there are at least 20 heads on the torch. Quite impressive.

I hear that black tip reef sharks will school sometimes. How big is your tank.

Craig, VAreefman purple/blue cap (5 frags) - $20 each [recommend 20k lights] Under 400w 20k xm now. John kept it under radium when I got it from him Could I reserve 1 of these frags please.

How easy is it to break off sections of the blocks? I would be willing to purchase a block for myself, in addition to chipping in some for the food party.

I'm in for 1 bag. BB

OK, Eddi and Clownfish4 have both graciously offered up a site to host this event. So, we have a venue, sorta. I can bring Golden Pearls, new jar of Sweetwater Zooplankton. I also have some shrimp that has been in my freezer a while and is a bit freezer burned. Do you think this would still be OK to use? If so, I can bring that too. BB

How does Saturday May 7th work for everyone, with one caveat for me at least. That is the rain date for Jarosh's fishing trip, but I'm booked up everywhere else. So May 7th is my first suggestion. I would prefer in the morning, say 9 or 10 am. I will volunteer a blender. Thoughts? BB

Is anyone up for a blender party? I am pretty busy til May, but thought that I would see if there is interest in making some tank food. I was thinking around mid May. That way we have time go gin up some interest. Anyone interested? Craig

I would use vinegar and remove any scale buildup. If you are worried about the impellers freezing up you could store the pieces of the pump separately. of course then you have to worry about loosing or breaking pieces.

I switched from 2x250w XM 20K to 2x250w XM 10k with 2x110w VHO Actinic and I love the difference. I didn't realize how blue those 20K's were until I popped the 10ks in. Even without the Actinic the 10Ks look great.

I have an old Berlin Red Sea Triple Pass skimmer that never worked right so I bought a new skimmer (Aqua-C). I have had the old skimmer kicking around for a while and I got to thinking that there has to be a way that I can use it to build a calc reactor. I had two thoughts, take it apart and just use the acrylic tubes from it, or to actually figure out a way to use the tubes, stacked togeather and make a flow through reactor. Any thoughts or suggestions? BB

You know, people pay good money for those stupid little pots that make gurgling water noises. Just convince your SO that you are saving the money that one of those would cost you, and that you should be able to spend that extra money that you just saved on a new coral. So far this method has worked fine for me.

Would that be the weed that is also referred to as the Kenya Tree coral earlier in this thread? If so I can bring about 20 frags of that stuff for anyone that wants it.