jaddc

The bacteria wasn't a bad thing because that consumed a lot of the nitrates and phosphates and probably was the chief reason why your nitrates were undetectable. I don't know if you have done this already, but you can definitely rinse the rock in just tap water. After you are done just do a final rinse in RODI water to remove the water impurities before you put it into the saltwater.

I started that thread. It worked great for me. Just go slow -- a little goes a long way. Dosing out of the tank is safest, but I used a syringe to squirt a small amount of peroxide directly at the root of the algae. Go slow.

Dang it! The honey clogged my return pump...but I forgot to cut it with milk.

Carbon dosing (vodka, vinegar, biopellets) is more effective if you thoroughly understand the biology and chemistry of carbon dosing. If you overdose, there can be some serious effects. For more info: A) http://reefkeeping.com/joomla/index.php/current-issue/article/116-vinegar-dosing-methodology-for-the-marine-aquarium B) http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-08/nftt/index.php In that respect, GFO is an easier method of phosphate reduction. You just add a media reactor and change out the resin as needed.

Well, yes, his tank is an anomaly which is why this unorthodox approach is being tried out. How it got this way is a mystery to me.

+1 Your original phosphate test was 0.03 ppm and now it is 0.85 ppm -- quite a change.

Phosphate is essential for biological processes. I'll give just two examples: 1) It is integral to our DNA. As cells divide (an essential component of growth and health) DNA needs to be copied. Phosphate is needed for DNA to be copied. 2) It is the energy source for life. When we eat food or plants harvest the sun, that fuel is converted into a molecule of ATP -- the "P" is for phosphate. So the food we eat is digested and absorbed. The sugar (glucose) is converted into ATP by glycolysis (this what happens when people say that they are burning calories). Our muscles use ATP to contract and do work. Our bodies cannot ingest ATP (otherwise GNC would have ATP powders). If you are a health nut, then you may have heard that eating simple sugars is the best way to get energy. This is because simple sugars are immediately used to make ATP, whereas complex sugars (e.g. the dreaded "carbs") are not as easily converted and may be stored as fat before it is burned. For our hobby -- the key is too introduce enough phosphate to support healthy husbandry, but not to excess. Like humans, the fish and non-synthetic inverts get all the phosphate they need from the fish food, and excrete the excess. Bacteria and coral absorb the phosphate from water fairly rapidly. Ideally, the phosphate concentration in the water is zero because it is locked up in the animals and bacteria. Often, that is not the case and then nuisance algae take advantage of the excess -- a situation all too familiar to us. So Eric's coral is liking the extra phosphate because now the cells can grow and divide. Pigments also need phosphate (directly or indirectly), so color should return. It is all about balance.

Which brand is it? My guess is that it is just an acid like sulfuric acid.

Patience is the key. Did you scrub the rock? That could speed things along. Otherwise, the longer you cure it, then less chance that undesirable effects will happen in the tank. Water changes would be the best way if you want the best cure.

Carbon dioxide dissolved in the rock water causing it to acidify is my guess.

A) the article is not contrary to my point. The "hard surfaces" you mention would be your rock. Which is what you would want to avoid, correct? If you release the phosphate to the water then you can get rid of it by water changes or phosguard.B) with phosguard, my point is that you may have more phosphate than the product is meant to handle. I mean you are cycling Old rock. Some people use acid to get rid of phosphate. Since your rock is in a small chamber, fresh saltwater may be a better solution. But if it is easier for you to use phosguard than change water, then go for it.

Phosguard doesn't remove phosphate, it just locks it away. Water changes are best. If you are in a rush, then you can acidify the water with vinegar to a ph of ~6. This will start to dissolve the outer layer of calcium carbonate and release any phosphate in the rock.

Prime shouldn't affect test results by any degree that matters to us. Products that "remove" a particular substance does so in a non-permanent way. You can google "chelation" if you want to dive deeper. So Prime would stick to the ammonia and so reduce it so that it is less toxic to life, but the ammonia is still there in the water. Because the ammonia is bound to the Prime, bacteria does not convert it to nitrite and nitrate as fast. It still does, just much slower as the bacteria has to fight for the ammonia. The idea is that the conversion is slow enough to not foul the water. And the chemistry of the test kits will still register the presence of ammonia -- because it is still there. If it is not there, then the bacteria have done their job. One more thing, Prime and the like break down after 24-48 hours. So you can test in a few days to feel more confident that Prime is not effecting the results.

I too was shocked to see the DC nitrate and phosphate levels when I tested the tap water using a fresh water test kit. Phosphate is added to protect all the city pipes from corrosion. I was shocked again when I tested the tap water after going through a Brita filter and found that the levels were unchanged. The government folks are aware of this, but there is little that can be done. Our water comes directly from the Potomac about a mile or two north of the Key bridge (you can see the intake on the canal towpath). Upstream from that point are hundreds of farms. When it rains a lot (like it did), tons of fertilizer laden runoff enters the Potomac. Rule of thumb -- if the water looks nasty brown, it is high in nutrients. The filtration system can reduce these contaminants by only so much. It's a problem for the tanks, but not for humans -- of all the things that can harm us, its low on the list. I rent and I use a BRS 5 stage RODI and I'm happy with it. In fact, I moved and was able to remove and reuse the split-valve without the landlord knowing a thing and got my full deposit back. When buying a unit make sure you get the chloramine version since DC uses chloramine instead of chlorine. It's just a smaller particle carbon filter that is a little more expensive.

lol... It is so freaking weird that just your nitrates are rising.

Curing rock is like aging fine wine. Some art, a lot of science, but the longer the age the better. If you want it faster then add some DT's bacteria (like a bit of sand or some small rocks or shells).

If you have time -- post your nitrate and phosphate levels here. Try to do the test about the same time every day that you test.

Good advice. The only thing I'll add is that there is little need to strain good quality frozen food. I always liked this article: http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2012/3/chemistry

I'd leave it alone until it starts to clam up. Heh.

I hear you. But aside from the water changes, you have 1. Increased your skimmer capacity. 2. Increased the flow to your chaeto and trying a different grow light (or planning to). 3. Decided to remove the sand bed which will allow you to increase your tank flow which will keep the detritus from building up in dead zones. All good things that have been proven to work to keep nutrient numbers down. In my opinion, dosing phosphate is an unorthodox last ditch effort, but you may have turned a corner here without doing so. I'm not saying do large scale water changes forever. After your sand is gone (which is tough to do without WC's), stop the large WC's and closely monitor your nitrates. If you keep posting your numbers here, we can help before it gets out of hand again. Definitely make the phosphate stock solution so you have it on hand without scrambling to make it.

Yeah I agree. It looks like removing the sand and doing water changes is having a positive affect. Hold off on phosphate dosing and keep doing what you are doing.

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/blog/fish-poop-is-great-coral-food

Spot on as usual Tom.

According to the link that Tom posted (nice read), to get the Redfield ratio, the formula is nitrate/phosphate * 1.53. To ideal range is 10-20 with spot-on being 16. Example: Nitrates = 0.25 ppm Phosphates = 0.02 ppm. Redfield ratio = (0.25/0.02)*(1.53) = 19 Now, I don't advocate chasing this ratio to insanity. But the point is that the further the ratio deviates from this 10-20 range, the more likely that you'll encounter problems.

lol