Refugiums: How do we export nutrients?

[sethsolomon]

So I wanted to start a discussion about how we as a club prefer to export our nutrients. I want to see if there is something someone is doing than the rest of us may have not thought of that is bringing  them success.

 

So for the plan for my 150g cube,   My plan is to do both a traditional refugium and at ATS.  ATS being for the primary nutrient export and the traditional refugium for growing decorative red algaes.  

 

In the past I had a extremely high bioload 104g seahorse tank that I used a remote 70g tank as a refugium growing all kinds of caulerpa for my export.  I was feeding 4 cubes of frozen food a day on this tank and it kept my display pristine.  I was also breeding Yellow watchman gobies in the 70g because there was such a huge pod population in it.

 

 

 

What are you running?  And do you have any cool things you do special with your tank?

Edited January 29, 2020 by sethsolomon

[ReefdUp]

I worry about nutrient import, not export. I have to dose phosphate and nitrate, in addition to heavy feedings 4x/day, skimming dry, and barely growing algae in the fuge. It's a blessing and a curse.

[sethsolomon]

9 minutes ago, ReefdUp said:

I worry about nutrient import, not export. I have to dose phosphate and nitrate, in addition to heavy feedings 4x/day, skimming dry, and barely growing algae in the fuge. It's a blessing and a curse.

What do you dose for nitrate and phosphate? or do you just over feed?

[YHSublime]

I have zero nuisance algae in my tank (sump or dt). I grow cheato and dragons breath. Well, they are both in my sump, I wouldn't say they grow, but they are just there. I have never been able to grow cheato. I've never had to trim it. I feed pretty heavy, only frozen, and I only have 3 fish in a 22 gallon (probably 35 gallon total water volume). I try and do a water change (5 gallons) once a month or so. 

[VA Reefdog]

On prior 75 gallon tank-- with 20 sump-- ran a refugium chamber with chaeto and sometimes ulva added in.

On my current tank - 120 gallon with 40 gal sump-- I am running about 14 gallon refugium as one chamber with chaeto, ulva and red gracilaria.

The sump has skimmer then return with T to the last chamber for refugium (so I can keep the baffle and the fuge highest).

 

Greg

[sethsolomon]

1 hour ago, YHSublime said:

I have zero nuisance algae in my tank (sump or dt). I grow cheato and dragons breath. Well, they are both in my sump, I wouldn't say they grow, but they are just there. I have never been able to grow cheato. I've never had to trim it. I feed pretty heavy, only frozen, and I only have 3 fish in a 22 gallon (probably 35 gallon total water volume). I try and do a water change (5 gallons) once a month or so. 

so seems your coral is your main export more than anything

[YHSublime]

35 minutes ago, sethsolomon said:

so seems your coral is your main export more than anything

 

I guess? I always figured it was the water changes and skimming. 

[mogurnda]

In sump chamber for Chaetomorpha, plus a connected slug tank with Bryopsis, Ochtodes, Syringodium and Thalassia.  The Bryopsis is food for the slugs, the seagrasses were hitchhikers that took over.  

[ReefdUp]

8 hours ago, sethsolomon said:

What do you dose for nitrate and phosphate? or do you just over feed?

 

I dose a bottled phosphate additive (forgot the brand), and I make my own sodium nitrate solution (dosing about 40ml per day). I buy the phosphate product just because I only dose 1-5ml per week or so. It's not cost effective to make it on my own. 

[treesprite]

My sump and fuge are in separate containers. I don't have any macros, but have a bunch of liverock in both the fuge and the sump. I guess it doesn't export nutrients, but it gives nitrifying bacteria a place to be, and provides refuge to pods which I believe is what a refugium is for rather than just existing to keep macros out of the display tank.

 

I use a good skimmer, change filter socks every couple days so food and detritus don't have so much chance to break down into pollutants, and dose carbon and bacteria. 

Edited January 30, 2020 by treesprite

[ScooterTDI]

One thing to keep in mind is that the nutrient export needs of the tank may evolve over time. I have been running an algae scrubber (>12 hrs./day, reverse photoperiod) to reduce growth of GHA and bryopsis in the display and things were stable for a long time, but I wasn't regularly monitoring nutrients and ended up dealing with dinoflagellates after nutrients bottomed out. I responded by turning off the algae for a week or so.  Although the nutrients are still pretty much immeasurable, the dinos disappeared within a few weeks and I now run a reduced photoperiod on the scrubber (only about 4 hrs/day)  just to keep it alive if I decide I need more export in the future. The alkalinity consumption of the tank increased by about 30% in the few weeks after I reduced algae scrubber photoperiod, so I think the corals were being growth limited by low availability of nitrate/phosphate. As corals fill in, they do seem to exert a significant nutrient demand.

 

ATS are really quite efficient once they get going. I have a very high fish load in a ~40g total water volume and could adequately control nutrients with a 4x6" screen lit from a single side with a 20 watt LED fixture.

[sethsolomon]

18 hours ago, ScooterTDI said:

One thing to keep in mind is that the nutrient export needs of the tank may evolve over time. I have been running an algae scrubber (>12 hrs./day, reverse photoperiod) to reduce growth of GHA and bryopsis in the display and things were stable for a long time, but I wasn't regularly monitoring nutrients and ended up dealing with dinoflagellates after nutrients bottomed out. I responded by turning off the algae for a week or so.  Although the nutrients are still pretty much immeasurable, the dinos disappeared within a few weeks and I now run a reduced photoperiod on the scrubber (only about 4 hrs/day)  just to keep it alive if I decide I need more export in the future. The alkalinity consumption of the tank increased by about 30% in the few weeks after I reduced algae scrubber photoperiod, so I think the corals were being growth limited by low availability of nitrate/phosphate. As corals fill in, they do seem to exert a significant nutrient demand.

 

ATS are really quite efficient once they get going. I have a very high fish load in a ~40g total water volume and could adequately control nutrients with a 4x6" screen lit from a single side with a 20 watt LED fixture.

nice!  did you make your own ats?  or buy one?

[ScooterTDI]

1 hour ago, sethsolomon said:

nice!  did you make your own ats?  or buy one?

 I made one. I don't like the design of most DIY waterfall ATS or the commercially available ATS. I've heard too many stories of: 1) spraying water out of the tank as algae start to grow and block the spray bar, 2) the drain clogging causing flooding, or 3) cleaning algae/salt creep off the inside of the unit. I also wanted a IP67 (or better) rated light due to concerns about the proximity of water.

 

My scrubber is a horizontal trough-style ATS and resides entirely below the rim of the sump, so the likelihood of water spillage is very low. You can only light the screen from one side, but there is no glass/acrylic between the screen and the light, so there is no need to clean anything to maintain light transmission. Other than the light fixture, I just made it out of materials I had lying around the garage.

[treesprite]

1 hour ago, ScooterTDI said:

 I made one. I don't like the design of most DIY waterfall ATS or the commercially available ATS. I've heard too many stories of: 1) spraying water out of the tank as algae start to grow and block the spray bar, 2) the drain clogging causing flooding, or 3) cleaning algae/salt creep off the inside of the unit. I also wanted a IP67 (or better) rated light due to concerns about the proximity of water.

 

My scrubber is a horizontal trough-style ATS and resides entirely below the rim of the sump, so the likelihood of water spillage is very low. You can only light the screen from one side, but there is no glass/acrylic between the screen and the light, so there is no need to clean anything to maintain light transmission. Other than the light fixture, I just made it out of materials I had lying around the garage.

Sounds like a great ATS setup.