sen5241b May 25, 2016 May 25, 2016 Been in this hobby about 8 years and I have always had zero 'trates using only a fuge with plenty of cheato. I did a 50% water change once every 3 months. In the last year nitrates and phosphates have slowly risen to 10ppm and .2 respectively --and so has a a dark brown hair algae. I call it 'dog fur' algae. 50% water changes on my 29G don't seem to do much good. The time has come for me to add more filtration or 'trate export of some sort. There seems to be a perennial slime slick on the surface of my water. Could a skimmer eliminate that 10ppm of nitrates? What about nitrate reduction media? Vodka? I hate having to add it every day. What do I need to do here?
sen5241b May 25, 2016 Author May 25, 2016 Why are 10pm nitrates bad? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Because the dog fur algae won't go away and it looks ugly. I know there has been a lot discussion about 'trates not needing to be zeroed out but 10 seems high enough to grow nuisance algae.
YHSublime May 25, 2016 May 25, 2016 Because the dog fur algae won't go away and it looks ugly. I know there has been a lot discussion about 'trates not needing to be zeroed out but 10 seems high enough to grow nuisance algae. What are your phosphates at? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
Origami May 25, 2016 May 25, 2016 What are your phosphates at? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk 0.2 (from the first post). A 50% water change should cut both nitrates and phosphates down by 50% (if your change water is nitrate and phosphate free). The reason it doesn't appear to do anything is it's being added back (most likely from feeding your tank). Have you tried exporting the algae - that is, manual removal? And doing so until it stops growing? The slick on your water is indicative of floating oils/organics. A skimmer should be able to remove this if you can skim this surface water off and get it into the skimmer. A skimmer won't target phosphates or nitrates, but may be able to reduce both by removing or reducing organic compounds prior to their being metabolized and broken down by other processes in your tank.
gws3 May 26, 2016 May 26, 2016 +1 on better surface skimming to get rid of the surface proteins. Maybe more flow is needed through sump. Filter socks? Feeding too much? Nothing wrong with 10 ppm nitrate. If I were you I would do your 50% WC to get down to 5 ppm nitrate and .1 phosphate. These are fine levels to try to maintain IMO. Nutrient export is your issue. If the algae wasn't growing these levels would be much higher. First make sure your skimmer is sized well enough for your bioload. Clean up any accumulated detritus. If rock can be removed I am very fond of pressure washing rock to remove algae. It works very well. If you're still growing algae you could try an ATS. I run these as I feel they are more natural than GFO or carbon dosing and less harsh on corals. Also, very easy to use photoperiod to dial in rate of export.
sen5241b May 26, 2016 Author May 26, 2016 (edited) ATS? Thanks for the info. I have been doing manual removal and I have cut back on feeding.There is one specific rock that the dog fur grows on a lot. I've heard of nitrates coming from a rock cause it had detritus stuck in it and this particular rock, twice the size of a large fist, I put in dry and then it floated for almost a day before it sank. Like I said this stuff is ugly. Edited May 26, 2016 by sen5241b
Origami May 26, 2016 May 26, 2016 Can you try removing that one rock, draining it, giving it a good scrub and then soaking it in a 50/50 mixture of hydrogen peroxide and water for about a half-hour? After that, it'll need to be removed, drained and rinsed in new water (not your tank) at least 3 times to remove any peroxide that made it to the inside of the rock. The algae may keep coming back on that rock because it's never really completely removed because there are so many places just below the surface where it can latch onto and you can't easily get to. The reason that this "rock" floated is that it's an old, porous coral skeleton filled with tiny voids which, initially were filled with air making the whole structure lighter than water. Once these voids were filled, it lost its buoyancy and sank.
sen5241b May 26, 2016 Author May 26, 2016 Can you try removing that one rock, draining it, giving it a good scrub and then soaking it in a 50/50 mixture of hydrogen peroxide and water for about a half-hour? After that, it'll need to be removed, drained and rinsed in new water (not your tank) at least 3 times to remove any peroxide that made it to the inside of the rock. The algae may keep coming back on that rock because it's never really completely removed because there are so many places just below the surface where it can latch onto and you can't easily get to. The reason that this "rock" floated is that it's an old, porous coral skeleton filled with tiny voids which, initially were filled with air making the whole structure lighter than water. Once these voids were filled, it lost its buoyancy and sank. I already removed and soaked it in H2O2 but the algae was bk after about a month. I may try removing the rock for a month or two to see if trates drop.
Origami May 26, 2016 May 26, 2016 I already removed and soaked it in H2O2 but the algae was bk after about a month. I may try removing the rock for a month or two to see if trates drop. That's pretty tough stuff. How bad is it on the other rocks? By the way, it looks like what I've seen called red turf algae. It's tough to get rid of.
sen5241b May 28, 2016 Author May 28, 2016 Old tank syndrome? How old is the sandbed? That's pretty tough stuff. How bad is it on the other rocks? By the way, it looks like what I've seen called red turf algae. It's tough to get rid of. I took all sand out and rinsed it just a few months back. Its not turf algae. It brushes off very easily There is not much of this algae on other rocks.
Origami May 28, 2016 May 28, 2016 I took all sand out and rinsed it just a few months back. Its not turf algae. It brushes off very easily There is not much of this algae on other rocks. How about just tossing the rock, then?
paul b May 28, 2016 May 28, 2016 Old tank syndrome? How old is the sandbed? Seriously! My gravel is pushing 46 years old, no Old Tank Syndrome yet. I think that happens at 47 years. Nitrates of 10 are no problem and if you are growing dog fur, get a cat. My nitrates are around 45 and my PO4 is off the chart. No algae and no dogs.
sen5241b May 29, 2016 Author May 29, 2016 How about just tossing the rock, then? Yeah, that's the next step. Seriously! My gravel is pushing 46 years old, no Old Tank Syndrome yet. I think that happens at 47 years. Nitrates of 10 are no problem and if you are growing dog fur, get a cat. My nitrates are around 45 and my PO4 is off the chart. No algae and no dogs. Then tell me what makes this ugly algae grow? BTW, I have seen hermits and emeralds eating it but it grows faster then they can eat it
YHSublime May 29, 2016 May 29, 2016 Then get a bigger CUC and sell them when done, problem solved. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
paul b May 29, 2016 May 29, 2016 Yeah, that's the next step. Then tell me what makes this ugly algae grow? BTW, I have seen hermits and emeralds eating it but it grows faster then they can eat it That could be a long conversation but it is not nitrates, phosphates or anything else you can test for. It is a rumor that has been circulation for 4o years that nitrates grow algae. Of course some nitrates are needed but if you take RO/DI water and put it in the sun for a week, it will grow algae. Most older, more established tanks have much higher nutrients and have no algae. New tanks with new seawater and no nitrates usually grow it, interesting isn't it. My 45 year old tank can get cycles of it every 8 or 10 years but it leaves on it's own. I think it has more to do with bacteria than nutrients but most people will disagree with me. Those are the people with the algae problems who keep changing the water. If algae "want" to grow, it will grow. Only a lighted refugium will keep algae off your corals and allow it to grow where you want it because algae is a normal, natural part of every healthy ref and if you dive ,you will see it all over the world.
sen5241b May 29, 2016 Author May 29, 2016 Then get a bigger CUC and sell them when done, problem solved. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Is there a "rent a sea hare"? That could be a long conversation but it is not nitrates, phosphates or anything else you can test for. It is a rumor that has been circulation for 4o years that nitrates grow algae. Of course some nitrates are needed but if you take RO/DI water and put it in the sun for a week, it will grow algae. Most older, more established tanks have much higher nutrients and have no algae. New tanks with new seawater and no nitrates usually grow it, interesting isn't it. My 45 year old tank can get cycles of it every 8 or 10 years but it leaves on it's own. I think it has more to do with bacteria than nutrients but most people will disagree with me. Those are the people with the algae problems who keep changing the water. If algae "want" to grow, it will grow. Only a lighted refugium will keep algae off your corals and allow it to grow where you want it because algae is a normal, natural part of every healthy ref and if you dive ,you will see it all over the world. Paul your advice is always appreciated but I am old school: 3 things grow algae, nitrates, phosphates and light. (And let it be said, in this hobby be prepared to change your understanding of tank-keeping at any moment!) Lately, I am putting more emphasis on a varied CUC. Species of crabs and snails have a preference for certain algae. Some snails will eat things that other snail species will not. I went almost a year without any hermits and saw more algae. I recently varied my CUC and saw an overall reduction in algae.
paul b May 30, 2016 May 30, 2016 If you are older school then me, you must really be a Geezer. Algae also needs iron. If you feel that you can eliminate algae with creatures, you should add some of these. I think it is 2" of Manatee for every five gallons of water
YHSublime May 30, 2016 May 30, 2016 Why a sea hare? I would toss the rock as suggested, or get some more emeralds, blue legs, and turbos. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
rtelles May 31, 2016 May 31, 2016 True about old gravel, senor Paul, but you also use a reverse undergravel filter and stir up all the old stuff once a year or so (based on other posts). Sounds like OTS isn't what's happening though.
sen5241b May 31, 2016 Author May 31, 2016 (edited) Why a sea hare? I would toss the rock as suggested, or get some more emeralds, blue legs, and turbos. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Took the rock out last night. 6 Manatees are being shipped for my 29G. Edited May 31, 2016 by sen5241b
Origami May 31, 2016 May 31, 2016 Took the rock out last night. 6 Manatees are being shipped for my 29G. Uh oh. I think I see the Manatee police coming....
sen5241b July 12, 2016 Author July 12, 2016 Just did a 4 day black out on my tank and this "dog fur" algae did not recede one bit ! Arrggh! And it is over growing some corals. Looking at the pic above, is the proper name Blackbeard algae"? I've done black outs before and never saw an algae that was completely unaffected. 3 days was always enough to kill almost all algae. Urchin?
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