Algae Conundrum

[sen5241b]

Weeks ago I ignorantly used 70 TDS water and at the same time my cheato atrophied to almost nothing due to dimming bulbs. Algae bloomed in my previously clean tank. I used to boast at how clean my tank was and snails starved to death in there. Now its a mess. Lost a couple small frags too. Its mostly green hair algae and green and red cyano. Nitrates and phosphates are zero and yes I am using brand new API tests.I recently did a 50% water change with TDS zero water and I am running phosphate adsorption media. Also, my cheato has made a complete comeback and continues to grow. I left town over the weekend and when I came back there was more algae.

 

Is it possible to have too have algae growth while 'trates are zero?

How can I get rid of this algae?

[lutz123]

Your nitrates may be zero because all of that algae is consuming it - not that it is actually gone.  Did you manually remove as much cyano and hair algae as possible?  I would probably do another water change (or two) with 0 TDS water again and then let it run it's course with manual removal and see what happens (but I am a "see what happens" kind of gal).  It should balance out again.  If you chase it too much you may create more problems.  You also might consider any other changes you may have made in the last few months that may have led to this.

[gmerek2]

I got rid of mine with upgrading skimmer, reducing food and livestock, and running aggressive GFO. Seems like you are on the right path it just takes a long time for the algae to starve out.

 

 

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[sen5241b]

Nitrates and phosphates have remained at zero since my last post BUT the tank is still full of hair algae and cyano. I've pulled tons of cyano and algae out. Someone told me I should try a black out for 3 days, pull hair algae out and follow with a big water change. Maybe I should be more patient but this algae is driving me crazy

Edited September 30, 2014 by sen5241b

[Djplus1]

You can try Red Sea NoPox or whatever it's called. It's kind of a temporary thing, but if you start feeding less, changing more water, perhaps it will be a nice kickstart to algae free living.

[gmerek2]

You can do a black out. It will work for a short time.  But just realize things will be right back to normal in no time. The nitrates and phosphates are undetectable because the algae is consuming it all.

[sen5241b]

You can try Red Sea NoPox or whatever it's called. It's kind of a temporary thing, but if you start feeding less, changing more water, perhaps it will be a nice kickstart to algae free living.

 

If the trates are all locked up in the algae and not in the water then what good do water changes do?

 

You can do a black out. It will work for a short time.  But just realize things will be right back to normal in no time. The nitrates and phosphates are undetectable because the algae is consuming it all.

 

I thought the theory is the black out kills algae and cyano and 'trates go back into the water column then the water change removes them. No?

[s2nhle]

have you increase the light intensity lately? light can cause the algae to boom too.

[sen5241b]

have you increase the light intensity lately? light can cause the algae to boom too.

 

 

When this algae thing started I had a dimming bulb in my fuge and my cheato atrophied to almost nothing so I put a new plant light in: 26 watt 6400K "Sun Blaster" bulb.

[Djplus1]

If the trates are all locked up in the algae and not in the water then what good do water changes do?

 

 

 

it won't be locked up in the algae anymore as the algae will be gone grasshopper. Give it a week or so and your algae will be gone. I'm saying that once you "get rid" of the algae you can feed 80% less and change your water more and give yourself a cheating head start to less algae. Of course, if you keep doing whatever it was you're obviously doing now, you will get the algae back as it really is temporary, much like a lights out, unless you change your routine.

[wildcrazyjoker81]

Dont do a water change. Your adding nutrients back into the water for the algae to feed on. Get as much algae out as you can and do a 2-3 day blackout. I mean a real blackout with cardboard or something taped around the tank. The algae will start to die off in 12-16 hours. Skimming a bit wet will help pull out the excess nutrients from the water. Another good thing to add would be a ton of pods to the display. Those little critters work miracles on algae.

Edited October 1, 2014 by wildcrazyjoker81

[sen5241b]

I've had the same routine for years but the algae problem is new.

 

I was told you do a water change after a black out. I am going to monitor trates during black out. Theoretically they should rise

 

 

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Edited October 1, 2014 by sen5241b

[GraffitiSpotCorals]

Dont do a water change. Your adding nutrients back into the water for the algae to feed on. Get as much algae out as you can and do a 2-3 day blackout. I mean a real blackout with cardboard or something taped around the tank. The algae will start to die off in 12-16 hours. Skimming a bit wet will help pull out the excess nutrients from the water. Another good thing to add would be a ton of pods to the display. Those little critters work miracles on algae.

Pods help eliminate algae?

Hair algae will die in 10 to 16 hours of darkness?

How is fresh 0 tds water going to fuel algae?

[wildcrazyjoker81]

Pods help eliminate algae?

Hair algae will die in 10 to 16 hours of darkness?

How is fresh 0 tds water going to fuel algae?

 

So I guess i should of clarified more on my post. My post was more so for cyanobacteria and not GHA since cyano is technically not a algae and it easier to get rid of in quicker time frames. I had cyano and a little GHA growing in my 10 gallon tank mantis tank and all i did was add pods and did 24 hours lights out and never had algae grow again. Never did a water change during that time. If you watch your tank at night with a red spectrum flash light of some sorts you will see the pods feeding on algae.

http://wamas.org/forums/topic/67125-amphipods-as-clean-up-crew/

 

And no GHA will not die quickly at all since it stores more energy due to being an actual algae and not a bacteria like cyano and will take more than lights out to get rid of it.

 

Fresh 0 TDS water doesn't fuel algae the salt mix does. It was a theory adopted by Julian Sprung that water changes are a bad idea with cyano and dino blooms because they add trace elements that fuel their growth. So I followed his method and had great success overall.

 

EDIT: I read it in this book

http://www.bulkreefsupply.com/algae-a-problem-solver-guide-by-julian-sprung.html

Edited October 2, 2014 by wildcrazyjoker81

[GraffitiSpotCorals]

I see, so you were talking about cyano bacteria not algaes. Just asking so people dont get confused.

[sen5241b]

2 days into black out and nitrates rose form zero to 10 and phosphates rose from undetactable to 0.1 and the tank stinks

 

I was told after 3 days, the GHA will pull out much easier. Saturday morning I am doing a 50% water change which should take out 50% of trates.

 

Most salt mixes claim they are trate free. I've never heard of trace elements fueling wild algae growth.

[toastiireefs]

2 days into black out and nitrates rose form zero to 10 and phosphates rose from undetactable to 0.1 and the tank stinks

 

I was told after 3 days, the GHA will pull out much easier. Saturday morning I am doing a 50% water change which should take out 50% of trates.

 

Most salt mixes claim they are trate free. I've never heard of trace elements fueling wild algae growth.

Well depending on what the limiting factor/nutrient is in your tank- trace elements CAN actually fuel crazy growth. In MOST systems phosphate is the limiting nutrient which is why we try to keep it down. It doesnt matter how many nitrates you have as long as there isn't enough phosphate. 

 

same way you can have 100 slices of bread and only 10 slices of ham, doesnt matter how much bread you have, you are only making 10 sandwiches.

So if your phosphate and nitrates were not what was limiting growth (unlikely) then trace elements CAN cause growth. Speciifcally silica. but thats all theoretical

[sen5241b]

Well depending on what the limiting factor/nutrient is in your tank- trace elements CAN actually fuel crazy growth. In MOST systems phosphate is the limiting nutrient which is why we try to keep it down. It doesnt matter how many nitrates you have as long as there isn't enough phosphate. 

 

same way you can have 100 slices of bread and only 10 slices of ham, doesnt matter how much bread you have, you are only making 10 sandwiches.

So if your phosphate and nitrates were not what was limiting growth (unlikely) then trace elements CAN cause growth. Speciifcally silica. but thats all theoretical

 

 

Dr Shimek (reefer and invert expert) said the same thing. Concerns about nitrates are overblown -its phosphates that can really hurt corals.

[toastiireefs]

Dr Shimek (reefer and invert expert) said the same thing. Concerns about nitrates are overblown -its phosphates that can really hurt corals.

Well I do not know who that is! But I am a marine biologist (with almost a M.S.) So I hope I have learned something over the years

 

And on that note. EVERYTHING needs phosphate in their life. w/o phosphate our bodies could do NOTHING. So we NEED phosphate or need to provide it some how in food for our animals because even photosynthesizers need ATP also known as Adenosine triphosphate! 

Yea we shouldn't go over board but thats a side note  

Edited October 3, 2014 by toastiireefs

[sen5241b]

Well I do not know who that is! But I am a marine biologist (with almost a M.S.) So I hope I have learned something over the years

 

And on that note. EVERYTHING needs phosphate in their life. w/o phosphate our bodies could do NOTHING. So we NEED phosphate or need to provide it some how in food for our animals because even photosynthesizers need ATP also known as Adenosine triphosphate! 

Yea we shouldn't go over board but thats a side note

 

YES and zooxanthellae need phosphates because its algae BUT I've read that zooxanthellae needs phosphates in ppb.

 

So, I tested water today after 3 days of blackout and phosphates still at  .1 and nitrates rose to about 20  maybe 25. I was running phosphate adsorption. Blasted the rock with a pump and did a 5G change out (with the usual hose popping loose and 2 gallons of salt water spreading across 2 rooms). After testing again, nitrates seemed to drop down to at least 15 and phosphates dropped too. In general, 'trates seemed to drop by about 25 maybe 33% right after the change out. Cyano completely gone and hair algae had a big die off. With lights back on waiting to see how much algae will come back.

Edited October 4, 2014 by sen5241b