Anyone using Red Sea NO3:PO4-X

[AlanM]

It is apparently a type of carbon dosing that is supposed to encourage a balanced bacteria population keeping Nitrate and Phosphate low, but not too low.  So often carbon dosing can strip the water of nitrate, but leave phosphate climbing.  This supposedly keeps both low and keeps you at a fraction of 1ppm nitrate and 0.02 ppm phosphate.  You're also supposed to take GFO or other chemicals offline and not run a refugium to grow algae and simply rely on this stuff to do the work for you at 2ml/25g/day.

 

The MSDS says that it is methanol and acetic acid.  Hardly sounds like wonder juice.  Just wondering if anyone had tried it and what experiences were.

[Cliff Puckstable]

I bought a bottle of it, but I'm too scared to use it. You're welcome to try it out.

[YHSublime]

I bought a bottle of it, but I'm too scared to use it. You're welcome to try it out.

 

Do it, Alan, then let me know!

[Marc Weaver]

I used it for about a year.  I have since dosed vodka and vinegar as well, and have honestly not seen an appreciable difference between the three.  I have never used GFO, but always ran oversized skimmers.

 

It most certainly can be overdosed and nutrient levels can go too low.  I did it twice while following the numbers instead of observing and reacting to changes in the coral.  It's just a learning curve that you have to get used to in your tank.  Once nitrates get too low, phosphates will start to rise again.  When you back off the dose, eventually phosphates will begin to plateau then lower again as nitrates slightly rise.  The same exact things happened to me with vodka and with vinegar.

 

Don't be afraid to try it, as it does work.  I remember when I started it I followed the dosing directions verbatim and had nitrates of 44+ (the max of the test kit I was using) and NOPOX lowered them to under 1 within 6 weeks.  

[linkfalcon]

It. Works very well lower my nitrate level very well and gets skim mate supper nasty

 

 

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[AlanM]

I bought a bottle of it, but I'm too scared to use it. You're welcome to try it out.

 

I'm scared too.  It seems too simple and easy to take off the fuge light and just drip this stuff in.

 

Do it, Alan, then let me know!

 

I'm gathering info for if my effort to raise nitrate to get my phosphate down goes south now that biopellets are off.

 

I used it for about a year.  I have since dosed vodka and vinegar as well, and have honestly not seen an appreciable difference between the three.  I have never used GFO, but always ran oversized skimmers.

 

It most certainly can be overdosed and nutrient levels can go too low.  I did it twice while following the numbers instead of observing and reacting to changes in the coral.  It's just a learning curve that you have to get used to in your tank.  Once nitrates get too low, phosphates will start to rise again.  When you back off the dose, eventually phosphates will begin to plateau then lower again as nitrates slightly rise.  The same exact things happened to me with vodka and with vinegar.

 

Don't be afraid to try it, as it does work.  I remember when I started it I followed the dosing directions verbatim and had nitrates of 44+ (the max of the test kit I was using) and NOPOX lowered them to under 1 within 6 weeks.  

 

Who has 6 weeks to wait?  I want it now, darnit!  Thanks for the info.  I will give my current efforts a couple of months of work and see what happens later.

 

It. Works very well lower my nitrate level very well and gets skim mate supper nasty

 

 

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Well, I do like nasty skimmate.  I'll try it in a couple months pending what happens with my current tank experiment.  I have methanol and acetic acid at work, though, so maybe I should just dump that in. 8)

[taiscici]

I dose sodium nitrate that I bought on eBay. It's cheap and works.

[howaboutme]

Don't do it. Do this:

 

 I will give my current efforts a couple of months of work and see what happens later.

[harticus5]

I use this, 1 cap full mixed into my top off water. Seems to do a decent job. Strong odor when opening main bottle

[Squishie89]

I have been using the NOPOx for a few weeks now. My nitrates were in the 20s and now according to the red sea test kit they are between 2 and 4. I do notice my macro algae having a lot of trouble. And hard to say if the NOPOx cause this or not but I have had sone patches of cyano break out, but nothing unmanageable. Fish, inverts and corals aeem either unaffected or possibly a bit better (but nothing was doing badly before either). I like the stuff. Very simple to use, not expensive and it works.

 

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[AlanM]

Harticus and jessica, do you use any other export mechanisms aside from skimmer? jessica said macro. Any gfo needed to keep down phosphate? That would be the win for me. they allege that over time their particular form of carbon dosing reduces phosphate as well as nitrate. Any dosing of vodka, vinegar, etc reduces nitrate but normally leaves phosphate.

[ridetheducati]

Alan,

 

You are a candidate for Zeo.

[howaboutme]

Alan,

 

You are a candidate for Zeo.

Can you clarify why?

 

Specifically, who is the ideal candidate for zeo in your opinion? Is the opposite candidate therefore not ideal for using zeo?

 

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[AlanM]

Alan,

 

You are a candidate for Zeo.

 

haha, I'm afraid to get into that, but if mine ended up looking like yours I'd definitely call it a success.

 

I've been avoiding even reading too much about Zeo

 

1) because the bottles are so expensive

2) because the exact contents of the bottles are shrouded in secrecy

3) because the manufacturer of the bottles promise various things while surrounding those promises with what sounds pretty pseudo-scientific to me.  The idea that a few drops of something in your 100g of water can make any difference seems kind of absurd to me. 

Edit to add 4) because you seem to have to put little drops from teensy bottles in by hand frequently.  I'd kind of like to have the dosing of anything I'm dosing systematically handled for me automatically.

 

I can't be too harsh about it because the tanks using it have results that are pretty undeniably good.  It just rubs me the wrong way that any "how does it work" explanations ends up being so long that it feels like quackery to me.  In my experience, if an explanation is too long, it's probably BS.  So in my uneducated opinion, it seems to work, but it's probably doing something simpler than they say it is, if that makes any sense.

 

The red sea claims about nopox seem far fetched as well.  Methanol, acetic acid, some proprietary blend of "enzymes" to stop certain bacteria colony growth.  I don't know.  I distrust anything opaque, but the nopox is inexpensive enough compared to Zeo that I'd give it a try perhaps if others around here saw their phosphate go down with this proprietary carbon dosing juice.  It would be pretty simple to run a tank with just a skimmer and a nopox doser.  Then I could put my fuge light back to growing tomato seedlings.

Edited February 26, 2014 by AlanM

[howaboutme]

I'm w/ Alan on this one. From what I have read, it boils down to this......There is no secret formula in how to keep reefs. Zeo is a form of carbon dosing. You are paying someone to do the math and the chemistry for you. I equate this to using BRS 2-part vs. RHF DIY 2-part solution. If you want to pay someone to do the calculations and the mixing, I see nothing wrong with it. It's marketing and it works.

[ridetheducati]

Can you clarify why?

 

Specifically, who is the ideal candidate for zeo in your opinion? Is the opposite candidate therefore not ideal for using zeo?

 

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Sure.

 

Alan seems to be looking for an one stop solution for NO3 and PO4.  One clear option is Zeo, therefore I made the suggestion. 

 

The ideal candidate for Zeo is someone willing to experiment while learning a lot about their system and have some fun as well.  This hobby is not fun without the challenges.  Get outside that comfort zone.

[ridetheducati]

haha, I'm afraid to get into that, but if mine ended up looking like yours I'd definitely call it a success.

 

I've been avoiding even reading too much about Zeo

 

1) because the bottles are so expensive

2) because the exact contents of the bottles are shrouded in secrecy

3) because the manufacturer of the bottles promise various things while surrounding those promises with what sounds pretty pseudo-scientific to me.  The idea that a few drops of something in your 100g of water can make any difference seems kind of absurd to me. 

Edit to add 4) because you seem to have to put little drops from teensy bottles in by hand frequently.  I'd kind of like to have the dosing of anything I'm dosing systematically handled for me automatically.

 

I can't be too harsh about it because the tanks using it have results that are pretty undeniably good.  It just rubs me the wrong way that any "how does it work" explanations ends up being so long that it feels like quackery to me.  In my experience, if an explanation is too long, it's probably BS.  So in my uneducated opinion, it seems to work, but it's probably doing something simpler than they say it is, if that makes any sense.

 

The red sea claims about nopox seem far fetched as well.  Methanol, acetic acid, some proprietary blend of "enzymes" to stop certain bacteria colony growth.  I don't know.  I distrust anything opaque, but the nopox is inexpensive enough compared to Zeo that I'd give it a try perhaps if others around here saw their phosphate go down with this proprietary carbon dosing juice.  It would be pretty simple to run a tank with just a skimmer and a nopox doser.  Then I could put my fuge light back to growing tomato seedlings.

I hear ya.

 

I am not running Zeo because my nutrients are managed by... wait for it ... salt and vinegar chips, I mean vodka and vinegar gumdrops (6 ml total).

 

Now, there has been a lot of discussion regarding Zeo lately, individuals selling equipment and additives, and I thought I may give it a run just to play the mad-scientist game.  Maybe it is time to take the cruise control off.

[howaboutme]

Alan seems to be looking for an one stop solution for NO3 and PO4.  One clear option is Zeo, therefore I made the suggestion. 

 

Very good, honest description coming from a (I guess) former Zeo user. Thank you.

 

I am not running Zeo because my nutrients are managed by... wait for it ... salt and vinegar chips, I mean vodka and vinegar gumdrops (6 ml total).

 

Haha...Isn't this DIY Zeo? Just kidding (a little).