Low ph?

[Djplus1]

I seem to have a low ish ph in my tank. Is there an easy way to raise it a bit without going overboard? It's usually 8.0something the moment I do a water change, but within a couple hours I'm at 7.8something and as low as 7.6something. I know that this is within acceptable range, I just would like it to be between 82-84 regularly. I'm running an avast mr5 with Rox.08 carbon, which I think is giving me some slightly lower ph levels. I have been told that running my skimmer tube outside my house would increase ph (and also reduce noise!), I'm also considering getting the avast kalk stirrer. Are either of these options worth looking into? Any other ideas?

[treesprite]

I think it is Monkey County water supply! My pH has been super low, as low as 7.4 going both by digital meter and liquid test, in both the DT and the frag tank which are completely separate from one another. I am convinced that this is part of the reason for my massive SPS die-off (the rest being that the die-off caused an ammonia/nitrite spike). Historically, the tap water pH has been around 7.9 to 8.2, so I was shocked to find it at 7.4 (straight from the tap).

 

Can you give some specs on salt brand, water change frequency/percentage, etc?

Edited June 3, 2013 by treesprite

[ridetheducati]

What is the pH after you leave a window open for 24 hours?

[Coral Hind]

Like Ridetheducati is suggesting, I think it might be excess CO2 in the house driving the pH down. Take a cup of tank water outside and bubble fresh air through the water with an air pump for about 20 minutes. If the pH then tests higher you will know that you have CO2 build up. Running the air intake tube outside as you mentioned can help.

 

How are you adding calcium to your system now?

[OldReefer]

It is summer.

 

Low pH threads appear during the first period of warm weather every year. It is almost always the result of increased CO2 in the closed room with the AC on. Try to get fresh air to the tank any way you can. It should help.

 

The next thing will be an increase in nuisance algae threads. The increased CO2 levels in the water fuel rapid algae growth.

 

A last resort consider a CO2 scrubber on the air intake of the skimmer. They are a pain, but very effective. I believe BRS sells them.

[Djplus1]

I think it is Monkey County water supply! My pH has been super low, as low as 7.4 going both by digital meter and liquid test, in both the DT and the frag tank which are completely separate from one another. I am convinced that this is part of the reason for my massive SPS die-off (the rest being that the die-off caused an ammonia/nitrite spike). Historically, the tap water pH has been around 7.9 to 8.2, so I was shocked to find it at 7.4 (straight from the tap).

 

Can you give some specs on salt brand, water change frequency/percentage, etc?

  

Like Ridetheducati is suggesting, I think it might be excess CO2 in the house driving the pH down. Take a cup of tank water outside and bubble fresh air through the water with an air pump for about 20 minutes. If the pH then tests higher you will know that you have CO2 build up. Running the air intake tube outside as you mentioned can help.

 

How are you adding calcium to your system now?

I'm using reef crystals. I'm changing 12-15 gallons weekly. Though because of the holiday I did 2 10 gallon changes and a 13 gallon change in a 12 day period wrapped around my beach trip since I normally water change on Saturday mornings. Same result though.I don't leave my windows open, it's too hot. Last time I did it triggered all of my lights to go off on both tanks since I have my apex set to turn them off if temp hits 84, and it takes forever to get temp back down.

[Coral Hind]

What is your alk level at?

[ohaverd]

I've been looking to find a way to help out the co2 in my basement tank, but I use a AquaC EV400 skimmer with a mag 24 pump.  There is no air intake, so how would one go about hooking up a co2 scrubber to a system like that?

[Djplus1]

What is your alk level at?

Here are all the testable levels now as of just now.

Nitrite- 0 ppm API test kit

PH- 7.8 API test kit (7.89 Apex probe)

Ammonia- 0 ppm API test kit

Nitrate- 40 ppm API test kit

Mg- 1300 ppm Red Sea test kit

KH-8.4  Red Sea test kit ( this has always been the trickiest to measure for some reason, I did 3 tests in a row and depending on my "judgement" of final color I had as low as 6.2 and as high as 9.2, the last test I sort of went with my gut down and chose a more middle color)

CA- 440 ppm Red Sea test kit

Phosphate- .05 ish ppm Seachem test kit

Salinity- 1.025

Temp- 79

I have another tank in the house which reads 7.8 also in regards to PH on the API test. Similar #'s all around, with slightly less nitrate present (20 ppm)

[Coral Hind]

I've been looking to find a way to help out the co2 in my basement tank, but I use a AquaC EV400 skimmer with a mag 24 pump.  There is no air intake, so how would one go about hooking up a co2 scrubber to a system like that?

You should have two ports on the top, one for the water to go in and a blue valve for the air intake. The air intake is what you need to run outside if possible. Post a picture of the top of it if you don't have two ports.

[Coral Hind]

Here are all the testable levels now as of just now.

Nitrite- 0 ppm API test kit

PH- 7.8 API test kit (7.89 Apex probe)

Ammonia- 0 ppm API test kit

Nitrate- 40 ppm API test kit

Mg- 1300 ppm Red Sea test kit

KH-8.4  Red Sea test kit ( this has always been the trickiest to measure for some reason, I did 3 tests in a row and depending on my "judgement" of final color I had as low as 6.2 and as high as 9.2, the last test I sort of went with my gut down and chose a more middle color)

CA- 440 ppm Red Sea test kit

Phosphate- .05 ish ppm Seachem test kit

Salinity- 1.025

Temp- 79

I have another tank in the house which reads 7.8 also in regards to PH on the API test. Similar #'s all around, with slightly less nitrate present (20 ppm)

Are the pH tests taken in the morning or evening? It will be higher at the end of the day.

 

Everything looks kind of normal. I would try to aerate the water outside like was mentioned earlier to confirm that it is a CO2 issue. If so, then you can do one or more of the following; get a CO2 scrubber, extend the skimmer intake to bring in fresh air, air out the house on cool days, add macro algae to consume CO2, phosphate, and nitrate while providing oxygen, or just live with it being slightly low which really isn't that bad.

[OldReefer]

Coral Hind is wise.

 

That EV400 would really benefit from outside air. I ran a 1/2" PVC line out the wall next to my fish room and the ran airlines from that to my skimmer. One of the better reef projects I have taken on. I picked up about 0.2 pH year round, and see less variation than I used to.

 

I have an old scrubber laying around if you want to try that. I don't need it with the outside air now.

[Djplus1]

Are the pH tests taken in the morning or evening? It will be higher at the end of the day.

 

Everything looks kind of normal. I would try to aerate the water outside like was mentioned earlier to confirm that it is a CO2 issue. If so, then you can do one or more of the following; get a CO2 scrubber, extend the skimmer intake to bring in fresh air, air out the house on cool days, add macro algae to consume CO2, phosphate, and nitrate while providing oxygen, or just live with it being slightly low which really isn't that bad.

Those PH results were from about 3:30pm. They are much lower overnight obviously, 7.5 or 7.6 and change. I will try to drill out some line out of my house and see what that does. So do you think no on the kalkstirrer for ph reasons?

[OldReefer]

You could go with Kalk, but dosing 2-part at night also raises the pH. It all depends on how much calcium demand you have. Some macro with a reverse photo-period would help in several ways.

[ohaverd]

Hm... I thought the nozzles on top of the ev400 where just connectors for adding a reactor. I didn't know one was actually pulling in air...

Edited June 4, 2013 by ohaverd

[ohaverd]

Nevermind I just noticed the two intakes behind the two reactor ports.... when you cover them the foam stops... thanks for the heads up. Now to find a way to run an air line up and out of the basement some how.

[treesprite]

Would using a room dehumidifier help at all? I have a dehumidifier in the room, but just run it enough to keep the humidity level at moderate.

[Origami]

Would using a room dehumidifier help at all? I have a dehumidifier in the room, but just run it enough to keep the humidity level at moderate.

No, the depressed pH is suspected to be from high ambient CO2. A dehumidifier won't do anything about that.

 

(Sent from my phone)

 

 

[ohaverd]

so the options are to A) run an airline outside or B) add a co2 scrubber? 

 

or does the co2 scrubber need to be fed from outside as well?

[Origami]

so the options are to A) run an airline outside or B) add a co2 scrubber? 

 

or does the co2 scrubber need to be fed from outside as well?

Or open a window, turn on a fan and reduce the CO2 in the house.

 

First, have you done the aeration test to check if you have a problem with high ambient CO2? Take a cup of water and aerate it for 15 minutes outside using an air pump and stone. Check the pH before and after. If there's a substantial rise, your pH is being depressed by high ambient CO2.

 

CO2 scrubber does not need air from outside of the house, although if you were to feed it outside air, it would lower the CO2 in the outside air even more, resulting in an even better increase in pH.

 

The bottom line is if you aerate with air that has a lower CO2 concentration than your ambient air in the house, it'll help blow off the CO2 trapped in the water and raise pH.

[Djplus1]

Well, it appears that it is certainly a closed house issue. I took advantage of this beautiful day and left all my doors and windows open and I have the ph reading 8.15 on the Apex. If I run a line outside from my skimmer is it possible that I would see these type numbers when the doors are closed or will it be closer to 7.9-8.0?

[Coral Hind]

Every system is different so there is really no real way to know the exact numbers but it will be a good bit different. I would also look into adding a marco algae area in your sump if you have space. That would transform CO2 to oxygen and export waste for you.

[Origami]

And, if you run a macroalgae fuge on a reverse light cycle - that is, the fuge is lit when the tank is not - it will help to stabilize pH as the macro will be photosynthesizing while the corals are in respiration and vice versa for the opposite.

 

Fresh air will help, but it's difficult to say where it will wind up as you will still experience gas exchange on the surface of the tank. It will bring your pH up, though.

[Djplus1]

Every system is different so there is really no real way to know the exact numbers but it will be a good bit different. I would also look into adding a marco algae area in your sump if you have space. That would transform CO2 to oxygen and export waste for you.

 

 

And, if you run a macroalgae fuge on a reverse light cycle - that is, the fuge is lit when the tank is not - it will help to stabilize pH as the macro will be photosynthesizing while the corals are in respiration and vice versa for the opposite.

 

Fresh air will help, but it's difficult to say where it will wind up as you will still experience gas exchange on the surface of the tank. It will bring your pH up, though.

The Eshopps rs-75 sump has a Eshopps psk-100 skimmer in it basically taking all of my real estate. I also cram a heater, cobalt mj1200 (for Avast mr5) and filter sock in there, so I'm not sure I can grow chaeto down there. If I can just jam it in there and keep a light on it at night, I'll give it a try, but I don't see that I have enough room.

 

I actually threw a piece of chaeto from my biocube on a clip in the display to see if the hippo would take notice (of course not), would that do anything if I always just kept a clump in the display?

[Coral Hind]

Yes, any bit you add will help some. It will also offer a nice place for pods to grow inside your tank.