Getting back in - looking for information on equipment

[wade]

After a significant hiatus from the hobby, I am seriously considering getting back into it. However, the condition I set upon myself is that I have to design the most power-efficient tank possible - including lights, pumps, etc.

 

So I have questions for folks based on my desire to set up a 60g cube (or near that - under 100 gallons):

 

1) What skimmer is rated to work really well for ~150g AND is very efficient on the electricity? My old 4 foot tall Beckett driven.. is not.

 

2) What about lighting? Obviously LEDs are the most efficient on power, but are they sufficient or worthwhile for a 2'x2' cube? - if so, which have people used? Is it more worthwhile to use a set of T5s? I still have my old 4x400W halide hood, but we won't even talk about that power consumption.

 

3) What about water flow inside the tank? What burns the least power, but moves a lot of water? The ecotech pumps?

 

4) What about return pump? What is a good one that works well for a 6' rise?

 

Any thoughts from people will be gladly accepted.

 

Also, if anyone has or knows of someone looking to offload a GLASS cube tank - let me know! I will also consider other sizes. My current tank is 7' long (~250g) which is just too big to be efficiently run as a reef.

 

Cheers,

Wade

[MBVette]

Why can't a 7' tank be run as a reef? There are much bigger tanks run as a reef with no problems at all.

[smallreef]

With ecotechs or vortechs you could easily use them in a 7ft tank...that being said to light that long of a tank would be cost prohibitive ifyour already looking at that part...

A 2ft cube would be easy....2 D120s or the IT version of the evergrow lights (group buy going on now) would work well to light it, an ehiem pump, though not as forceful as some at 6ft are more power efficient than some...

 

Skimmers...if you get a recirculating skimmer they do twice the work with what they have....

 

I dont know how much of a difference alot of these things make by themselves but i know it adds up, i have a 50g 3ft long tank, eheim return pump, 3 older powerheads, a swc skimmer and 2 d120s and my power bill is less than $60 a month for the tank... my 5g pico uses about $7 a month,lol

[epleeds]

I have a 6 foot tank with only 2 Tunze power heads (6105's) running at the moment and they are all that I need. I have a 1262 as a return pump and its more then enough to handle my tank. Once you pay for the initial cost of the set up the only thing that really costs is the coral and fish purchases

[Jon Lazar]

You could also look into solar tubes for lighting, if low electrical usage is a high priority.

[wade]

I must have written that poorly - I am choosing not to use my large tank as a reef again. It was one for years. The reason is because to move that much water volume, and light that much surface, requires immense amounts of power - I used to run 4x400W halides+4x VHO, 5000gph return pump, 2x external circulating pumps, and a 3500gph pump on the skimmer, plus a small pump on the reactor. The tank was gorgeous.... for years. http://www.flickr.com/photos/68956031@N08/sets/72157632830881336/

 

Jon - this is on the main floor of a 2-story, so that won't work even without considering the problems inherent in our latitude.

 

I'm really looking for what people have used that is efficient - what pumps draw the least, but hold up and work well? What lighting is worth it on a cost basis that draws low power? What type of skimmer does a great job for ~150-200g of water, but draws low power?

 

Thanks all!

Edited February 26, 2013 by wade

[STEVE]

It's not a cube, but I have a 90 complete setup I will be breaking down in about 2 weeks, if that intrest you? If so, PM me

[wade]

Smallreef - thanks for the input. I'll look into the evergrow lights.

 

My old reef (this was around 2005) cost me around $50 in power a month - in NC where rates were about 40% lower than up here (and the power was nuclear, not 100% coal like it is here). I imagine running the same setup here that I had there would probably burn around 1500kwh a month. My solar panels only currently cover around 30% of my operating needs, adding a huge drawing tank would plummet that even more. I know there's a better way to do it with more modern equipment.

[Origami]

You might look for a skimmer with a Waveline DC-3000. That pump draws 25W and will cost you $25-$35 per year to operate. It should draw about 960 lph of air which should be good for an aquarium 100-200 gallons. I wouldn't go by skimmer manufacturer ratings as those numbers are always all over the map. If you had more space and could go larger, the DC-5000 draws closer to 1800 lph and uses 50W at full speed. Each pump has a six speed controller which can cut back on power consumption.

[wade]

Thanks Tom! Someone else just clued me into those pumps as well. I hadn't seen them before. Any idea what people are saying about their longevity? (seals, etc)

[Origami]

They're submersible and magnetic drive, so the only seals would be the potting of the motor. I don't think there's much data on that nor would I expect this to be a great problem. The industry seems to have a reasonable handle on submersibles. My direct experience with the Waveline pumps comes from the two DC-5000's that are on my skimmer that I'm using now. You can also see them online at YouTube. They're really built like a tank. I've never seen such a proportionally heavy (thick) shaft on a skimmer pump before.

 

One thing you might think of, Wade, is the possibility of connecting up a DC-3000 to an Avast CS-1 body. If interested in that, I'd drop a line to either Justin or Dan over at Avast to see if they can make that work for you. Justin is here as ctenophore, while Dan is Dandy7200. You can also just go to their website at http://avastmarine.com and contact them that way. They're local boys done good. There are also off-the-shelf solutions from other providers, I think.

 

If it came down to total cost of ownership, Wade, you might also consider a closed loop using a DC pump. It all comes down to cost recovery and flexibility, though. While the Vortech's are very power efficient (for example, an MP10 draws about 20W, I think), their flow is always directed perpendicular to the panel they are mounted on. They're also pretty pricey and could cost $100 more than a programmable DC pump. Comparing the two, your cost recovery horizon could be 3-4 years off.

 

Another option are Koralia pumps. They're a propeller pump and they offer more flexibility to point the pump, but have a larger in-tank presence. They're cheaper and very low power. Some in the product line are variable speed (DC).

 

You could also use one of the Maxijets that have the propeller kit sold with them these days (Maxijet Pro). I'd find a magnetic mount kit, though. I don't trust suction cups. Inexpensive and power efficient; moves a lot of water.

[Origami]

Here's a Skimz skimmer (new) running a DC3000:

 

Here's a DC5000 on a RLSS body:

 

Here's something highlighting the size of the impeller shaft in the DC5000. See what I mean about it being a monster?

[wade]

Yay videos! Thanks for those links, very handy. Skimmer tech has certainly shifted over time as well - it looks like various companies have tried to really reduce the bubble emissions from the needlewheels. I bookmarked Avast as well. They are new by me too.

[Origami]

I'm not sure what you mean by "bubble emissions." There are a variety of skimmer design approaches still used. Downdrafts, Becketts, Venturi, and even a few that use airstones still. Many (probably most) are Venturi (aspirated) designs with needlewheels nowadays. Improved power efficiency in the Venturi designs is one change that I've noted has taken place over the last few years. It really reduces the operating costs while preserving a low-maintenance cost design (e.g. there's no wooden block airstones to replace).

 

I'm not sure how long you've been away, Wade, or even if you've been here all that time, but Avast is formerly GSA (Grey Seas Aquatics).

[wade]

By bubble emissions, I mean the microbubbles that come out of the exit pipe from skimmers - the annoying kind that get pulled into the return pump and go into the tank. My old beckett did a wonderful job of not letting that happen, but it was 4' tall. Most of the smaller needlewheel designs used to be notorious for it.

 

As for 'here' - no. I was in NC for most of my time as a reefkeeper. I started NCFRAG and Marine Aquarium Society of the Carolinas way back when. I've been out of the hobby since late 2005.

[Origami]

Well, welcome back, Wade! Glad to have you here.

[wade]

Thanks Tom!

 

I am running into issues in planning. When looking at restoring my existing larger tank to a reef, I've discovered that I won't be able to use any of the newer pumps, except the Ecotech MP60, that mount to the side of the tank. The tank is 1" thick acrylic so very little is strong enough to be able to support it from externally. That leaves me with bulky internal water motion - or like was mentioned earlier, an inline external pump (I actually had one on the tank in its previous existence) for a recirculating line with a seaswirl on the exit end.

[MBVette]

hmmm, maybe you can get a tunze and get a suction cup for it?

Edited February 28, 2013 by MBVette

[Origami]

Thanks Tom!

 

I am running into issues in planning. When looking at restoring my existing larger tank to a reef, I've discovered that I won't be able to use any of the newer pumps, except the Ecotech MP60, that mount to the side of the tank. The tank is 1" thick acrylic so very little is strong enough to be able to support it from externally. That leaves me with bulky internal water motion - or like was mentioned earlier, an inline external pump (I actually had one on the tank in its previous existence) for a recirculating line with a seaswirl on the exit end.

Or, perhaps a closed loop using one of the power efficient DC pumps? (Maybe that's what you mean by an inline external pump?) A wavebox or some sort of surge device might be helpful, reducing the need for too much of the flow having to come from a powerhead. You have to look out for microbubbles though from waveboxes. I'm sure that some folks have worked on this problem with some success.

 

I'm not a big fan of any powerhead held on solely by suction cups, unfortunately. If you used something with a magnetic mount, it might cost a bit, but you might be able to find a large enough magnet for the outside that could still provide a secure mount for the powerhead. Perhaps a call to the powerhead manufacturer (for example, Hydor, if you were to use Koralias) could provide insight into if they've helped other aquarists with the same problem.

[gws3]

you could look at a reeflo on a closed loop. some of the newer pumps have some serious output for rather low power consumption.

[Steve175]

I would strongly consider a closed loop with a waveline DC-5000 if I were setting up a 60G (I wish they made a DC-30000 for my 250Gs).

[Origami]

I would strongly consider a closed loop with a waveline DC-5000 if I were setting up a 60G (I wish they made a DC-30000 for my 250Gs).

When they come out with them, get three DC-12000's and control them relatively asynchronously with your controller. Of course, retrofitting an existing tank would be a real challenge!

[swimmatte]

Kessil's Aquarium Light Calculator says that for a 2'x2'x2' cube thank, the minimum light requirements are (1) a150w with the maximum requirement being (2) a150w's. They have a 2'x2' range. I happen to have one listed for sale

[wade]

I have to say... I'm not impressed with the little info I've found on the Kessil 350 blue lamp. Power consumption seems off and its too far into the blue spectrum. If you look at their charts.. there's no numbers on the "distance"!! They will have to give one to an external source to test it or show me something more before I buy into it.

[wade]

All,

Thanks for your input! The process has started. I've ordered a new tank (instead of using my old acrylic beast - which I will be cleaning up and offering for sale soon) and stand. The cube option wasn't going to work in the space I have to fit it, so I went to a 180 wide (72x24x25) tank.

 

Now I just have to make decisions on water flow, skimmer, Ca reactor and a topoff mechanism. Possibly monitoring equipment as well.

 

As for lights, I personally know the guys who started up Ecotech Marine, so I will try to work a deal with them and see what I can come up with... the Radion's are hard to beat (Vega's are also nice from the testing I've seen and the discussions I've had with Sanjay). The Kessil are not worth the gamble as I haven't seen any reliable test results with them and they are a bit too blue for my tastes.