netpez August 19, 2012 Share August 19, 2012 My Situation: I setup a Red Sea Max 250 about 3 weeks ago. At first I was informed that I should keep all lights off and protein skimmer off. A week into it, I was advised to throw a couple shrimp in to accelerate the cycle process, which I did (2 table shrimp). after a week or so it appears the table shrimp had dissolved, but from my APC tests I really did not notice any differences with the ammonia, nitrite, nitrate levels (to be honest, I am not sure if I am judging the shades on the tests correctly. Yesterday I went to Blue Ribbon Koi and they performed a full test: Salinity: 1.020 PH: 7.8 Ammonia: .40 Nitrite: 0 Nitrate: 0 Phosphate: .25 mg/L Alk: 185 ppm GH/KH They mentioned that my ammonia is about peaked and that I may have about 1.5 weeks or so before the cycle is complete. Also they recommended I turn on my lights, which I have. I turned on my protein skimmer, but I am not sure if it is working properly (or I am just doing it wrong - I could use advice). Also per their recommendation, I bought 3 baby blue/green chromis, which I adjusted to the tank and released (they seem to be doing ok (noone floating). I have to admit I was not ready to admit fish in yet, but brk said that it would help introduce the bacteria for eating the ammonia and nitrites. At this point, my head is swimming as I am trying to do everything just perfect (the guy at brk said I am being too freaked out), but I am a bit of a perfectionist in things I get into. What I have been dying for, is someone to just come over... inspect things, advise me and put my mind at ease, as again, I am freaking out a bit. What I would like to chat about: I was wondering if there was anyone in the Leesburg area that could drop by and examine my setup to relieve some of my anxieties. I only need like 20-30 min of your time to help me out with advise on my current tank cycle, tuning my protein skimmer, if I need a chiller, my water flow, rock setup, light cycle, and overall condition of my tank. I could also use some advice in terms of things that I should add to the tank to improve my overall setup. I will by you a case of your favorite beer! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami August 19, 2012 Share August 19, 2012 netpez, I'd be happy to swing by to take a look. I find it unusual, though, that anyone would suggest that you add fish when you still don't have evidence of the cycle completing and when there's still free ammonia in the tank. I would have waited a little bit, personally. I'm in the office right now but hope I'll have some time later today. Can I give you a call? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami August 19, 2012 Share August 19, 2012 http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2007-02/rhf/index.php#16 "Because ammonia's toxic effects appear at levels significantly below those that are acutely lethal (0.09 to 3.35 ppm NH3-N or 1.3 to 50 ppm total NH4-N at pH 8.2), and because some organisms in a reef aquarium may be more sensitive than the few organisms that have been carefully studied, it is prudent to err on the side of caution when deciding what concentrations of ammonia to allow in a reef aquarium or related system. " These are 96h LC50 (will kill 50% of fish in 96 hours) concentrations. At the very least, 0.40 ppm total ammonia puts unnecessary stress on fish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
netpez August 19, 2012 Author Share August 19, 2012 origami... I sent you a pm. Also, I have officially joined wamas membership... can you check if that went through? Thanks! Pez Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami August 19, 2012 Share August 19, 2012 Yes, it went through. Welcome to WAMAS. I think you'll like it here. I received your PM. I'll be in touch. I have a bunch of folks in the office right now and have a few things to attend to. I'll give you a call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan August 19, 2012 Share August 19, 2012 Ditto - The raw shrimp was good enough. Any food will break down and cycle. Do you have AMquel+? http://www.drsfostersmith.com/product/prod_display.cfm?pcatid=4045 You can get it at Petco or Petsmart. Check expiration dates. It will help your fish with the ammonia. Ammonia and nitrites are killers. I find it unusual, though, that anyone would suggest that you add fish when you still don't have evidence of the cycle completing and when there's still free ammonia in the tank. I would have waited a little bit, personally. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coral Hind August 19, 2012 Share August 19, 2012 Ditto - The raw shrimp was good enough. Any food will break down and cycle. Do you have AMquel+? http://www.drsfoster...cfm?pcatid=4045 You can get it at Petco or Petsmart. Check expiration dates. It will help your fish with the ammonia. Ammonia and nitrites are killers. The shrimp method takes a long time if the proper bacteria are not introduced into the system at the start. The tank needs to be seeded with that bacteria by adding quality live rock or a product that contains the right bacteria. If not the ammonia can sit there with no forward motion in the nitrogen cycle. Add a product like Stability from SeaChem and the ammonia will start to go down as the nitrite and later nitrate rise. I agree, add the AMquel or similar product very soon to bind the ammonia and hopefully soon the nitrite. Increase O2 in the tank during this time as ammonia binders can limit O2 exchange. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huly August 19, 2012 Share August 19, 2012 Thank you everyone for all the responses. We are so confused and still trying to figure this all out. We do have about 40lbsthe live and 40lbs dead rock in from day one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami August 20, 2012 Share August 20, 2012 C&C - I'm still at the office (working on a big proposal). I've sent netpez a PM apologizing for the delay. Maybe later in the week? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
matt bills August 20, 2012 Share August 20, 2012 Welcome to the club. This is a slow moving hobby. So relax and enjoy. Let me know when your a couple months into it. I will give you some corals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huly August 20, 2012 Share August 20, 2012 C&C - I'm still at the office (working on a big proposal). I've sent netpez a PM apologizing for the delay. Maybe later in the week? All good we understand just hit us up when it is good for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
netpez August 20, 2012 Author Share August 20, 2012 The shrimp method takes a long time if the proper bacteria are not introduced into the system at the start. The tank needs to be seeded with that bacteria by adding quality live rock or a product that contains the right bacteria. If not the ammonia can sit there with no forward motion in the nitrogen cycle. Add a product like Stability from SeaChem and the ammonia will start to go down as the nitrite and later nitrate rise. I agree, add the AMquel or similar product very soon to bind the ammonia and hopefully soon the nitrite. Increase O2 in the tank during this time as ammonia binders can limit O2 exchange. Is that a product like Dr Tim's? Is it available at LFS' ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan August 20, 2012 Share August 20, 2012 It's available at LFS's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coral Hind August 20, 2012 Share August 20, 2012 Is that a product like Dr Tim's? Is it available at LFS' ? Dr. Tims is a brand name so it depends on which actual product you are asking about. The Dr. Tims "One and Only" is the bacteria booster you would want. His "Ammonium Chloride" is used to introduce the ammonia into the system without letting a shrimp stink up the water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BowieReefer84 August 20, 2012 Share August 20, 2012 (edited) Microbacter 7 is a good bacteria supplement made by brightwell. http://www.marinedep...IADWTBS-vi.html Edited August 20, 2012 by BowieReefer84 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huly August 20, 2012 Share August 20, 2012 We also have a few things growing on our rock that we are not sure what it is. Here are a few photos: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coral Hind August 20, 2012 Share August 20, 2012 The 1st pic looks like you have some sponge growing on the lower part. The 2nd looks like what is left from a dead sponge. The 3rd looks like some Foraminiferans like a Homotrema rubrum. If you see clear feeding things coming from the ends it is probably still alive. The 4th looks like button polyps (zoanthid or palythoa). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huly August 20, 2012 Share August 20, 2012 The 1st pic looks like you have some sponge growing on the lower part. The 2nd looks like what is left from a dead sponge. The 3rd looks like some Foraminiferans like a Homotrema rubrum. If you see clear feeding things coming from the ends it is probably still alive. The 4th looks like button polyps (zoanthid or palythoa). Are any of those bad? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coral Hind August 20, 2012 Share August 20, 2012 No, for the most part none are bad for your tank. If the last one is a button polyp just be careful when handling it as they can release a toxin. Just wash hands or better yet were gloves and googles when dealing with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huly August 20, 2012 Share August 20, 2012 No, for the most part none are bad for your tank. If the last one is a button polyp just be careful when handling it as they can release a toxin. Just wash hands or better yet were gloves and googles when dealing with them. Thank you! Give me a furry child and I know who what when where and how but this salt water thing is brand new. We were hoping to come out and meet some of y'all on Sunday at the Frag event to gain knowledge (Even though we are not there yet) but with a tailgate the night before and the next the following Wed I am not sure we can make it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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