Jan June 17, 2012 June 17, 2012 I forgot. Looks like this fish has round worms. The largest so far is about 1/4". It has a rounded head with a long taperd body that ends in a pointed tail. I have found 4 in the bottom of the Qt tank. I'm thinking it also has Bladder diease from the infestation so I'd like to treat with broad spectrum antibiotic. Can I use both together.
Jan June 17, 2012 Author June 17, 2012 Ok, I'm at a crossroads.The fish is now lying on the bottom of the tank. It's tired and no doubtstarved. It has not eaten since Wednesday. Been in distress for days. Can't swim straight. I've tried parzipro first. Some wormscame out. Prazi pro didn't kill the all the worms that came out so I changed water and used pureprazi. It irritated the largest worm, but it's still moving. Fish is in QT tank in hyposalinity at1.010 with prazi and now broad spectrum antibiotic. I was thinking secondary gill disease and possibly bladder disease that's why I used the antibiotics. Should I euthanize or keeptrying? The fact that it hasn't eaten in days alone tells me it doesn't havethe strength to pull through. I believe these are hook worms. The largest one,about 1/4", attached itself to a piece of PVC and it's tails is flailingabout. The others I saw were much much smaller and died right away. What kills these creatures? It's really heartbreaking. This Angelfish is absolutely gorgeous. You couldnever tell by looking at him that there's anything wrong with him. His color isgreat. His belly not sunken in or distended. Scales aren't falling off. fins are perfect. A Magnificent specimen except for the severe distress. Any suggestions?
davelin315 June 17, 2012 June 17, 2012 You could force feed the fish, just stick a tube (very small and soft) into the throat and pump some of that frozen food of yours into it. If it's thawed out it should be able to absorb some of that. Of course, this could end up killing it from stress, but sounds like it's on its way out anyway if it is lying there. There's also the potential that the worms that left the fish are leaving holes inside of it that are also causing problems, kind of like treating heartworm that's in plague proportions killing the animal due to the complications the dead worms leave behind.
Jan June 17, 2012 Author June 17, 2012 No, no force feeding. I've stressed it enough. Holes inside make a lot of sense. A secondary illness in addition to malnutrition. Im going to just let it go. It's been through enough. Thanks, Dave. What kills hook worms? The large one is still moving. You could force feed the fish, just stick a tube (very small and soft) into the throat and pump some of that frozen food of yours into it. If it's thawed out it should be able to absorb some of that. Of course, this could end up killing it from stress, but sounds like it's on its way out anyway if it is lying there. There's also the potential that the worms that left the fish are leaving holes inside of it that are also causing problems, kind of like treating heartworm that's in plague proportions killing the animal due to the complications the dead worms leave behind.
Coral Hind June 18, 2012 June 18, 2012 I have never done it but I think you would be safe according to several threads I found about using them both together. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2145552
JLW June 18, 2012 June 18, 2012 The job of a lot of anti parasitics is actually not to kill the parasites, but to force them out of the fish, which the prazi has done. Once they're out of the fish, they have a fairly difficult time getting back in -- and no chance if you remove them. Don't worry if the worms are still alive on the bottom of the tank . As long as they're out of the fish, it is an improvement.
Jan June 18, 2012 Author June 18, 2012 Thanks David, I found the same thread and dosed the antibiotic yesterday. This fish is still alive. It's still lying on it's side with labored breathing. I'm leaving for NY at 9am. I'll be back this evening. My husband will be home all day. I don't know what else to do for this fish? I've also checked all params and they are fine. There is no ammonia, no nitrites, no nitrates, ph is a little low at 7.8, temp is 77 degrees and SG is at 1.010.
Jan June 18, 2012 Author June 18, 2012 I didn't know that prazi just drives them out. I thought it killed them too. I thought it was like flatworm exit, which is also a dewormer. FWE kills the worms. Thanks for letting me know. The job of a lot of anti parasitics is actually not to kill the parasites, but to force them out of the fish, which the prazi has done. Once they're out of the fish, they have a fairly difficult time getting back in -- and no chance if you remove them. Don't worry if the worms are still alive on the bottom of the tank . As long as they're out of the fish, it is an improvement.
Coral Hind June 18, 2012 June 18, 2012 pH is always hard to maintain when SG is so low. That's one reason why I don't medicate fish while in hypo.
Jan June 19, 2012 Author June 19, 2012 the fish is still alive lying on the bottom of the QT tank. He's breathing fine he just can't move or eat. I'm trying one more thing and that's it! Methalyene blue is supposed to help with cyanide. The way this fish appears and then suddenly dropped when all others are fine didn't make sense. The worms didn't have him to the point of starvation. Cyanide will catch up to healthy fish like this, sometimes weeks later. The region it came from tells me there is a good chance he was caught using cyanide. How's the fish?
Coral Hind June 19, 2012 June 19, 2012 I've never heard of force feeding a fish, that's a new one. How do you get it passed the esophagus which is normally closed and into the stomach?
Jan June 19, 2012 Author June 19, 2012 Well, I took a small bore dropper with some of my food dosed with selcon and held the fish just beneath the surface while I gently squirted the food at it's mouth. It didn't take any of the food. I didn't take the dropper and insert it into it's mouth. That's the extent of my attempts to force feed a fish. I've never heard of force feeding a fish, that's a new one. How do you get it passed the esophagus which is normally closed and into the stomach?
Jan June 19, 2012 Author June 19, 2012 it's still alive, lying on its side looking great and breathing normally. It's a gorgeous 6" male Genicanthus melanospilos. I've been assured it was not caught with cyanide. I must wait for it to die. how is the fish? what kid of angle is it?
smallreef June 20, 2012 June 20, 2012 Not to sound cynical..but how can someone assure you it wasnt caught with cyanide unless they personally caught it? Or unless they have dealt with the same fishermen all the time?
Jan June 20, 2012 Author June 20, 2012 (edited) Whati was told is that LA oversees their vendors oversea to ensure that they do not use cyanide or purchase cyanide caught fish. They partner with them. I say BS! this fish came from Indonesia. Cyanide is used big time for catching fish there. They were very adamant about this and had no explanation as to why the fish is still alive, looking healthy and not moving. Their advice was to keep the fish in the dark, feed with food soaked in garlic extreme (but it wont eat!!!), keep all parameters in check, blah, blah, blah. They gave me an additional week on their 14 day guarantee. They also do not believe in euthanizing. So they wont honor guarantee if I put this fish out of it's agony. I've been speaking to these folks for over a week. The plant supervisor was supposed to call me but he did not. I was told there was no need. I asked what his background was and I was told that he is very well known in the field and has over 20 years experience. My question then was "and he does not believe in putting a fish in this condition out of their misery?" No, we do not. I said I'll send you pictures and a video so you can see what I'm seeing. Not to sound cynical..but how can someone assure you it wasnt caught with cyanide unless they personally caught it? Or unless they have dealt with the same fishermen all the time? Edited June 20, 2012 by Jan
LCDRDATA June 20, 2012 June 20, 2012 Poor fishie :( Although it may well be too late, I know that one of the antidotes for cyanide poisoning is sodium thiosulfate, which is also the active ingredient in some dechlorination products. You could try adding that to the water in your QT. Beyond that, I don't know what else to suggest except prayer.
Jan June 20, 2012 Author June 20, 2012 I saved the fish. It's in the freezer. Are there any marine biologists, vets or mad scientisits interested in dissecting and scoping around to find out the cause of it's death? I am that curious to know.
davelin315 June 20, 2012 June 20, 2012 I've never heard of force feeding a fish, that's a new one. How do you get it passed the esophagus which is normally closed and into the stomach? Hey David, you just push the soft tubing past the opening of the esophagus and then push the food through a syringe. I've done it before with clown fish to force them into eating and as long as you are very careful and don't puncture anything or go beyond the back of the throat, you can cause the fish to swallow the food down. It's not as tough as it seems since the inside of the mouth is pretty tough, you just have to be very careful not to push too far or not far enough. If you veer too far over to a side of the mouth then you risk damaging the gills. It's not as hard to go to the top or bottom since the roof of the mouth is typically pretty much bone and the bottom of the mouth is pretty much a tongue leading to the throat.
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