Acro RTN

[SunWyrm]

I'm having troubles again. This time with my sps.

 

I'm at work and can't do anything til this evening (I hate this!), but I was just informed one of my colonies is rtn'ing, and I've been dealing with stn on another. Other frags are alright-ish so far.

 

Do I frag or dip? What do I do with my unfortunate acro crab? Can moving the sps to another tank help without fragging or dipping? If he loses his home, he doesn't have another large acro to go to, and there are hawkfish in this tank.

 

I don't know any parameters right now, just that they're under metal halides, in a holding tank with no skimmer or other filtration. I've been keeping my sps in here as they weren't colorful under the mh but were growing better and happier than in my other led lit tanks. Those have lps, a decent bioload, and an angry lawnmower that knocks them over and into sand and other things, which is probably the biggest cause of unhappiness.

 

Would moving to my qt help at all? All I have in there is the butterfly who I could move, no lr or sand or good lighting (I can add something tonight).

 

This sucks.

[Der ABT]

i would be checking params first

 

if its from an alk swing or something there is not much you can do but hope....

 

Sometimes putting some glue to create a barrier on the skin that is still good helps...aka leave a little healthy skin under the glue you put around.

i dont think the acro crab will need a large colony, just one with enough hiding places...or put a couple frags close together so he can decide which to run to..

good luck and sorry to hear about it.

[SunWyrm]

Thanks, I'll use glue when I get home. The crab is sitting on the dead bottom of the colony, so I dont think he will mind so much. The other colonies/frags don't offer much cover from the hawkfish, and since he's tiny I worry. I'll be moving everything around tonight if all goes well.

 

I know my calcium test is wonky (tried using api, I'll find my better test tonight) and I'll check alk and others.

[Der ABT]

dont worry about calcium(well not right now).....main issues will be from Alk, salinity, ph, phos, nitr, amonia etc....

if you have had problems with other frags, check for things like stray voltage (works real well if you have a fresh cut)

i would think the crab would actually do fine on the dead acro as long as you throw him some food every so often....

Edited April 24, 2012 by Der ABT

[Marc Weaver]

As for switching tanks, I've had about a 50/50 success rate with that. Sometimes the STN stops, sometimes it turns to RTN and the frag is gone within an hour. I've never been able to save a stressed acro by dipping, they always die quicker. I've tried melafix and iodine before.

 

The only thing that ever worked was fragging off or gluing over the dead tissue like Der ABT said.

 

Sorry to hear about this, and good luck!!

[Marc Weaver]

I have personally had STN/RTN occur from water that was too clean and have seen it stop within a day when carbon dosing was temporarily stopped and nutrient levels were allowed to rise again. This happens to me from time to time and I learned to see the signs of it happening early. I load the water with amino acids and oyster eggs and stop dosing for a few days and everything goes back to normal.

 

I'm not sure if this is relevant to your situation or not, just throwing out another possibility besides alk swings.

[surf&turf]

I hope you can figure it out. I've been battling STN myself and are finally seeing some good results. If you haven't had a bad alk swing and the tips look burn't your N03/P04 might be high. The coral will also STN from the base.

 

My phosphates were testing 0 with a salifert test kit. I also had very little nuisance algae. I at first thought my water was to clean, as Marc had said, so I took my GFO reactor off line. After 3 days of that the tank really looked bad. To much GFO can also cause the tips to burn.

 

So I put the reactor back on line, started doing water changes everyday, so far I've changed 50 gallons in a week and a half, and added a purigen media to my filtration. The LPS and SPS are looking good again. The STN has stopped, and polyps are back out

again on the SPS.

 

Now I'm just waiting for them to color back up.

[trockafella]

I hope you can figure it out. I've been battling STN myself and are finally seeing some good results. If you haven't had a bad alk swing and the tips look burn't your N03/P04 might be high. The coral will also STN from the base.

 

My phosphates were testing 0 with a salifert test kit. I also had very little nuisance algae. I at first thought my water was to clean, as Marc had said, so I took my GFO reactor off line. After 3 days of that the tank really looked bad. To much GFO can also cause the tips to burn.

 

So I put the reactor back on line, started doing water changes everyday, so far I've changed 50 gallons in a week and a half, and added a purigen media to my filtration. The LPS and SPS are looking good again. The STN has stopped, and polyps are back out

again on the SPS.

 

Now I'm just waiting for them to color back up.

 

+1.. I just went through nearly the same thing. I realized my RO/DI filters were bad, and I was over feeding. I have since got things inline and everything looks much better. It did however come at a cost. I lost the majority of a nice milli colony. I fragged and glued over some skin as mentioned above. Good luck, hope it works out for you.

[SunWyrm]

Work ran over time, I just got home to find my acros dead and nothing salvageable, the crab is still hanging on. I feel horrible not being at home to help save them. I'm not sure what to do now. I don't have any other acros for the little guy, only sps are montis and such. Nothing with any substantial branches. Can he survive without his host home? I have a pico he could stay in, or I could lose him in this 180 or my 75. He's a defensive little guy and my earlier thoughts about the hawkfish subsided when he went after my fingers for picking up his dying house but I'd still rather him have a place to go.

 

I feel terrible and embarrassed that I killed his home, it was neglect and laziness on my part for not insuring that the water quality and everything else was in check.

 

I'm not too sad to say I bought the beautiful coral mostly for the crab. He's the most adorable that I've seen and I don't want my selfishness to cost him his life. What can I do?

 

The other sps and other corals aren't showing much as far as distress if anything. I'll try to get things in check tomorrow if I can.

 

I'm certainly not buying any more livestock until my build is finished, I'm sick of watching things die in "holding tanks" without proper equipment because I didn't finish this back in the fall.

 

Sorry for venting, this has been a bad week for my tanks. And thanks everybody for the help, ideas, and good wishes.

[Marc Weaver]

Don't beat yourself up too badly - sometimes things happen that are beyond our control.

 

Acro crabs are actually pretty tough, we forgot about them in a maricultured shipment we received and dipped them with the colonies in CoralRx for 15 minutes and they all lived through that. Mine all grab food out of the water easily and aren't afraid of a turkey baster.

 

I know there are people closer to you than me, but if all else fails I will be happy to give him a temporary home in my frag tank until you are ready again. It's predator free and full of SPS.

 

Read the post at the end of this for some inspiration!!

http://web1.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1001617

[Der ABT]

ill offer a temporary home as well especially if you come to the meeting

[sportzfish]

Work ran over time, I just got home to find my acros dead and nothing salvageable, the crab is still hanging on. I feel horrible not being at home to help save them. I'm not sure what to do now. I don't have any other acros for the little guy, only sps are montis and such. Nothing with any substantial branches. Can he survive without his host home? I have a pico he could stay in, or I could lose him in this 180 or my 75. He's a defensive little guy and my earlier thoughts about the hawkfish subsided when he went after my fingers for picking up his dying house but I'd still rather him have a place to go.

 

I feel terrible and embarrassed that I killed his home, it was neglect and laziness on my part for not insuring that the water quality and everything else was in check.

 

I'm not too sad to say I bought the beautiful coral mostly for the crab. He's the most adorable that I've seen and I don't want my selfishness to cost him his life. What can I do?

 

The other sps and other corals aren't showing much as far as distress if anything. I'll try to get things in check tomorrow if I can.

 

I'm certainly not buying any more livestock until my build is finished, I'm sick of watching things die in "holding tanks" without proper equipment because I didn't finish this back in the fall.

 

Sorry for venting, this has been a bad week for my tanks. And thanks everybody for the help, ideas, and good wishes.

 

Yeah the crab can live without a living host coral. Maybe help him out by throwing some food his way once in awhile.

[sportzfish]

I have personally had STN/RTN occur from water that was too clean and have seen it stop within a day when carbon dosing was temporarily stopped and nutrient levels were allowed to rise again. This happens to me from time to time and I learned to see the signs of it happening early. I load the water with amino acids and oyster eggs and stop dosing for a few days and everything goes back to normal.

 

I'm not sure if this is relevant to your situation or not, just throwing out another possibility besides alk swings.

 

Do you mind sharing what some of the signs are that you see in order to catch it early?

[Marc Weaver]

I can see the colors of SPS start to pale, with purple and blue being the worst. It is a subtle change, one you almost have to see to notice. It kind of goes from deep, vibrant color to a more pastel one, and it happens within a few days. I'm not talking easter egg pastel or anything, just a subtle difference. This will be followed by some STN, particularly at encrusted base edges of acros. The edges turn white and tissue starts to recede around 1/32" a day. Polyp extension is cut to around in half, which can be hard to notice sometimes until the situation is taken care of, then they come back out in full force.

 

Also, my ricordias don't expand fully during the photoperiod, but all my acans don't seem to be affected, even when the water is stripped they open fully.

 

I also start to get diatoms for some reason, but I carbon dose and this may be attributed to excess carbon source in the water vs the low nutrients, I'm not sure.

[SunWyrm]

Update on my acros:

 

Lost the 2 colonies (including the crab's) and a couple frags. Found out my refractometer was off and all of my tanks were 1.028 instead of 25. I don't know if this was the reason, but everything looks a little better now. I'm going to reaquascape my 75 and 90 this weekend and make room for all the survivors I have to move.

[trockafella]

What were your other params.? Phos alk etc.?

[surf&turf]

What were your other params.? Phos alk etc.?

 

 

+1 I don't think 1.028 would really hurt anything, parts of the ocean measure that.

[SunWyrm]

I know and realize this. I'm sure there were more problems, but with my basement such a mess from everything getting moved around for the 360 build, I'm afraid that I've misplaced most of my test kits, much to my embarrassment. I also haven't been testing with what I have regularly.

 

I'm moving everything around this weekend to try and get them more stable until the main tank is cycled and ready. The 180 will be dissolved into the 90, 75, 29 qt and rubbermaid tub, while it cycles with the 360. I should have done this much sooner but things happen and I keep putting it off. Hopefully this weekend is it for getting everything happy again.

 

Edit: I meant to ask this before, but do any of you use the API calcium test kit? I can never get it to go past a pinkish purple color and it's really aggrivating, especially since I know I have a really nice calcium test kit around somewhere.

Edited April 26, 2012 by YiatzOfEden

[surf&turf]

Sorry for your loss, hope the move this weekend goes smoothly!!

[Incredible Corals]

I know and realize this. I'm sure there were more problems, but with my basement such a mess from everything getting moved around for the 360 build, I'm afraid that I've misplaced most of my test kits, much to my embarrassment. I also haven't been testing with what I have regularly.

 

I'm moving everything around this weekend to try and get them more stable until the main tank is cycled and ready. The 180 will be dissolved into the 90, 75, 29 qt and rubbermaid tub, while it cycles with the 360. I should have done this much sooner but things happen and I keep putting it off. Hopefully this weekend is it for getting everything happy again.

 

Edit: I meant to ask this before, but do any of you use the API calcium test kit? I can never get it to go past a pinkish purple color and it's really aggrivating, especially since I know I have a really nice calcium test kit around somewhere.

 

Make sure to shake it a lot between steps. If you don't shake it for 10 seconds between steps the color won't change correctly when you add the drops.

[DaveS]

I use the API. I know it's not perfect but it's close enough to confirm what my eyes tell me.

[Incredible Corals]

After you add those ten drops or whatever it is before you start adding the single drops you have to shake it really well.

[SunWyrm]

Thanks! I've been just flipping it over and back to mix it but not shaking thoroughly, I'll give it a try.

[Swimboy123]

Good luck!