Moving to PAR 38 LEDs

[TonyD]

I have a 175 gallon, bowfront tank. It's 6' long and split into 3 24" section with 2 center braces. I am considering moving from (3) 150W MHs to the Ecoxotic PAR 38 LEDs or the Nanocustoms' Evilc66 PAR 38s.

 

The question is :

1) How many for a 6 foot long tank? I was thinking 6 lamps would provide enough coverage.

2) Do I go with 12k lamps or 20k lamps? 40 degree optics? 60 degree optics or 80 degree optics?

3) If going with 12k lamps, I think I would do 3 12k lamps and 3 455nm lamps.

 

So many combinations between 12k, 20k, 455nm lamps and different degree optics and I have no idea what is best. I need some advice from the more experienced LED users.

I would like nice even coverage. I have a combination of mushrooms, lps and sps if that will help with the advice.

[zygote2k]

I have used both versions of the P38's. Evil's bulbs have more choices, but I have found that the Ecoxotics are a little cheaper and have a more durable finish on the housing. 6 of them would provide decent coverage as long as you're not planning on growing SPS. If you want to grow SPS, then I'd recommend at least 10 bulbs. If you look at the 'dedicated tank forum', you'll see a 10 bulb setup over a 90 SPS tank. I have a 6 bulb setup on 2 seperate 150's that grow montiporas and softies just fine.

[basser9]

IF you put them on a light mover they will work great .....

JUST ADD ONE T5/VHO TO LIGHT YOUR WHOLE TANK.

[steveoutlaw]

Send a PM to Robert Chu (Chucelli).......he's pretty knowledgable and can answer all of your questions.

[zygote2k]

Are you going to build something like this?

 

This is 8) P38's over a 210. They're on 22" gooseneck fixtures on track. They are all 60 degree 12k.

This is 6) P38's over a 150. They're mounted on a 6' long steel rail in the canopy. They are all 60 degree 12k.

This is 10) P38's over a 90. They're mounted on 2 tracks with adjustable pendants. They are a mix of 4) 40 degree 20k,

and 6) 60 degree 12k. There is also an Ecoxotic Panorama Strip as well.

This is 3) P38's over a 60. They're on a custom fixture and all of them are 40 degree 20k.

[TonyD]

Rob,

 

Yes. I plan on putting them on track lighting. I think I like the 60 degree optics better than the 40 degree just so it doesn't look like light beams coming down. I like the adjustable pendants. Are those at Lowes? Are the Ecoxotics only available in 40 degree optics? I had planned on doing 3 12ks and 3 455nm, but it looks like I'll need 6 12k P38s based on your pictures. Thanks!

[zygote2k]

You'll see the "light beams" coming down whenever the water gets cloudy no matter which optic you get unless you go way wide like 120 degrees. You can find the black pendants and track at Lowes. The Ecoxotic only comes in 12k or 20k with 60 degree optics. 60 degree bulbs will give you the most spread with a reasonable amount of usable PAR, whereas the 40's really pack a punch and will get good numbers even at the bottom of the tank.

[basser9]

You must have 40 degree optics for your size tank and six of these lamps will only light 1/4

of your tank.

But you can put six of them[tightly packed] on a light mover which will keep any sps alive and thriving.

1 VHO WHITE type bulb or 2 t5s will light your entire tank while the 1/4 area is lighted by the moving leds.

The leds support the corals growth while the whole tank light is for your eyes and does nothing for the corals.

This is the only thing that will work as these lamps as shown in these pics will not support sps or most lps.

I HAVE USED LIGHTMOVERS ON most of my tanks with great sucess and will have some pics of my 150with a mover and leds in the near future.

 

Jason fox had movers on most of his tanks a few years ago and has great sps growth with them.

[zygote2k]

You must have 40 degree optics for your size tank and six of these lamps will only light 1/4

of your tank.

But you can put six of them[tightly packed] on a light mover which will keep any sps alive and thriving.

1 VHO WHITE type bulb or 2 t5s will light your entire tank while the 1/4 area is lighted by the moving leds.

The leds support the corals growth while the whole tank light is for your eyes and does nothing for the corals.

This is the only thing that will work as these lamps as shown in these pics will not support sps or most lps.

 

Basser-

I must say that you really don't know what you are talking about. I've got many different tanks with these bulbs that say otherwise. All of the various types of corals show much greater growth than those under conventional lights. I have yet to experience bleaching or RTN or any color change to brown on any of the corals under these lights. You also have to remember that these are spotlights and not blanket lights like fluorescents. Coral placement is critical when using spotlights.

Light movers are great in a greenhouse but are rather difficult over a regular home tank. I like fluorescent and halide too, but I realized that LED is so much more efficient at growing corals and will never switch back. They are the ultimate, focused light source. Anything better would just be called sunlight.

[TonyD]

I think I will start out with 6 bulbs for the initial setup. If I need more due to not enough coverage or coral growth, I can add more later. That's what I like the most about the P38s, it's modular. The decision now is 12k vs 20k? 40, 60 or 80 degree optics? Thanks for your input Basser. At this stage, I appreciate any and all feedback and opinions so that I can make an informed decision. Since I have 0 experience in aquarium LEDs, I'm open to anything.

[BowieReefer84]

Rapidled sells par led bulbs. 5 and 7 led bulbs. $79 and $99. Not sure what led is used, but I would recommend them as a company.

[TonyD]

Rapidled sells par led bulbs. 5 and 7 led bulbs. $79 and $99. Not sure what led is used, but I would recommend them as a company.

 

Thanks! I will check them out.

[overklok]

I think for the cost of the system you will eventually build, I would recommend the Aqua Illumination module setup. The cost is about 500 dollars per module but you much more flexibility in terms of color temperature and dimming than with the PAR38's. The Sol Blue modules are very nice with royal blue and actinic blue LEDs with the white LEDs. Best thing about the AI's is the upgradability of the modules. When a new generation of LEDs come out AI has provided an affordable upgrade path to existing users. There is very little spotlighting with the combination of 40 and 70 degree optics in each module.

Edited November 29, 2010 by overklok

[m3fan8ic]

Thanks for posting this topic OP, I am on same kinda boat as you are. Since I have my 144gl half circle tank down, I am thinking about switching to LEDs when I set it back up which will be early spring time. I have a similar question as to what's the best route to take when going with LED lights and how many is enough to keep SPS? My tank design is little different when it comes to lighting under the canopy. I was running 2x250 MH and 2x36 T5s (DYI). I am thinking about going with Cree LEDs and DYI kit (heatsink, fan, power supply etc).

Rob (zygote2k) you've seen my tank it's 29" deep and about 5' wide half circle what do you think I should go with?

I've been basically reading up about the LEDs and haven't really sat down and planned it all out yet. Maybe go with 36 LEDs on the heatsink board which is two 8" long about about 16" wide containing about 18 leds each mix of royal blue and cool white 50/50.

any thoughts?

[zygote2k]

Thanks for posting this topic OP, I am on same kinda boat as you are. Since I have my 144gl half circle tank down, I am thinking about switching to LEDs when I set it back up which will be early spring time. I have a similar question as to what's the best route to take when going with LED lights and how many is enough to keep SPS? My tank design is little different when it comes to lighting under the canopy. I was running 2x250 MH and 2x36 T5s (DYI). I am thinking about going with Cree LEDs and DYI kit (heatsink, fan, power supply etc).

Rob (zygote2k) you've seen my tank it's 29" deep and about 5' wide half circle what do you think I should go with?

I've been basically reading up about the LEDs and haven't really sat down and planned it all out yet. Maybe go with 36 LEDs on the heatsink board which is two 8" long about about 16" wide containing about 18 leds each mix of royal blue and cool white 50/50.

any thoughts?

 

I think given a half circle tank, you could go with 2 of the 12k Cannon pendants and one 453nm Cannon pendants between the 2) 12k's.

If you prefer the DIY route, you could always get a heatsink that matches the footprint of the tank and go from there rather than trying to fit rectangular lights into a half circle.

[m3fan8ic]

Yea I think to keep it clean look under the hood I would take DIY route. Where can I find the heatsink in half circular shape? Another thing I want to keep in mind is that I want to keep the cost as low as possible.

[trockafella]

LED's may be cheaper to run, but they certainly arent cheap to build. And doing it the cheapest way possible usually ends up costing you more in the end. Take your time and do it right, the cheap way never ends up being cheap.

[zygote2k]

If you're looking for the most bang for your buck, the 50w LED pendants are the way to go.

Nothing comes close for the price.

[m3fan8ic]

So these PAR38 21watts won't cut it for my tank if I decide to go with pendant route as oppost to Cannons 50w?

[TonyD]

Just to cover all bases, I priced out a DIY LED kit from rapidled.com and reefledlights.com for a 6' tank, and the price came out to be about $1k. It would be about 72 LEDs total. Compared to the PAR38 bulbs with 5 LEDs/bulb x 6-8 bulbs over a 6' tank, it would be about 30 - 40 LEDs over the tank. The PAR38 bulbs is a cleaner look, but if you have a canopy over the tank, the DIY LED kit might be more cost effective.

[m3fan8ic]

TonyD, below is the canopy that my tank came with which is little hard to work with when trying to accommodate lights inside. Top of the canopy is open and I had to DIY with my MH light (2x250 icecap pendants + 2x36 T5). I don't think I'll need 72 leds in my tank considering the size/footprint. If I go with Cree G series I was thinking about 48 leds would be enough. But then again I am no expert in this hence my post/asking questions.

 

[zygote2k]

Sid-

why not go with a ceiling mounted semicircle track and use gooseneck pendants w/P38's? You can leave the top of the canopy off too. Lights stay in place when the whole canopy is off.

[BowieReefer84]

TonyD, below is the canopy that my tank came with which is little hard to work with when trying to accommodate lights inside. Top of the canopy is open and I had to DIY with my MH light (2x250 icecap pendants + 2x36 T5). I don't think I'll need 72 leds in my tank considering the size/footprint. If I go with Cree G series I was thinking about 48 leds would be enough. But then again I am no expert in this hence my post/asking questions.

 

 

Careful with the XP-G series Cree LED's. I put some on my biocube (12 white xp-g and 12 blue xr-e), and the frilly mushrooms and chalice I have are not too happy... I do NOT have optics either, but they are very close to water surface. If you are getting optic's, make sure you have the ability to raise them up...

 

just an fyi.

 

EDIT - or just get a dimmer. rapid did not have the dimmer parts when i bought mine, and i am not into diy so i kept it simple

Edited December 7, 2010 by BowieReefer84

[TonyD]

TonyD, below is the canopy that my tank came with which is little hard to work with when trying to accommodate lights inside. Top of the canopy is open and I had to DIY with my MH light (2x250 icecap pendants + 2x36 T5). I don't think I'll need 72 leds in my tank considering the size/footprint. If I go with Cree G series I was thinking about 48 leds would be enough. But then again I am no expert in this hence my post/asking questions.

 

 

The 72 LEDs might be best for my tank, which is 6'. I would agree that you may not need as many LEDs. Could you combine heat sinks so that you're building like a pyramid shaped heat sink for your half circle tank? Something like 24" long for the base, then 18", then 14" so that the heat sinks take the shape of your tank? I'm not sure how cost effective that would be, but just a thought.

[trockafella]

Careful with the XP-G series Cree LED's. I put some on my biocube (12 white xp-g and 12 blue xr-e), and the frilly mushrooms and chalice I have are not too happy... I do NOT have optics either, but they are very close to water surface. If you are getting optic's, make sure you have the ability to raise them up...

 

just an fyi.

 

EDIT - or just get a dimmer. rapid did not have the dimmer parts when i bought mine, and i am not into diy so i kept it simple

 

 

Good point, but his tank is much taller than yours, so that light will break down significantly, where as yours is right on top of the water and only like 14" tall or so..