Sea Sheperd's new target...US!

[Coral Hind]

It seems the Sea Shepherd Society has a new article called, "The Dark Hobby"

 

Taken from the article, "What can you do? If you see an aquarium, ask that it be taken down for the sake of the reefs, the fish and us." I like how the guy writes this article just before he releases his new book.

http://www.seashepherd.org/news-and-media/editorial-100821-1.html

[jason the filter freak]

Haven't used that emoticon in a while, seems fitting though

[roni]

hmmm, i like the random facts like 99% of yellow tangs die within a year. would love to see the data on that.

 

having run a salt water only store for a couple years, i would multiple repeat customers. it's pretty rare to hear of any of them reporting even 25% losses, unless they were the type who basically had no clue.

 

i do think hobbyists need to be more aware of the potential impact of the hobby but most of us gravitate towards tank bred or aquacultured now anyway...and some of the coral/clam farms are offering a viable economic alternative to previous practices of just dredging up coral and using it as building material.

[Aurora]

I think the article is accurate in many ways. We need to see the other side of the picture. We as reefers take our time to research and learn about our fish and corals. Most reef tanks makes good habitats. For every conscientious reefer, there are ten people who wants to take Nemo home in a glass jar. How many times have you seen fish sold in LFS that you know wont survive in your tank. They are in the store because they can be sold and some bloke is gonna buy the fish and kill it within a year.

[CHUBAKAH]

Kind of an older story at this point. Here is a link to Bob Fenner's response:

http://www.coralmaga....hobby-diatribe

 

 

I also have heard, but not seen the response of Kevin Kohen who had a few nice things to say.

Edited September 9, 2010 by CHUBAKAH

[DDiver]

interesting food for thought.....

 

yep taking my tank down....open house(or tank, should i say?) at Billy's?....

[overklok]

Snorkel Bob is a jerk, his shops are all over Kauai and his clientele are out there standing on the reefs, acting like morons. He makes his money from the reef too.

Edited September 9, 2010 by overklok

[ErikS]

So let me get this straight - this *sshat runs snorkel tours & rants that the aquarium trade is the "devil"? Sorry Snorkel Schmuck I've seen the damage done by the morons you drag out to the reef everyday - seen more brain coral with foot & hand prints that I care to mention.

 

How about this one Snorkel Hole, see the toe dig damage...........you'll note I was trying to take a pic minimizing the damage, if I was taking pictures OF the damage it would be much easier. So keep ranting & bringing damage to the reefs everyday - what a moron.

 

 

(last one I was on fat cow was boo-hoo-hooing about the cut on her foot from coral............so exactly why couldn't you keep your feet off the coral? I mean lard floats like a cork, how hard could it be?)

Edited September 9, 2010 by ErikS

[Brian Ward]

Accusations and rhetoric with no scientific fact cited anywhere in the article. This is the same crap politicians pull all over the country to convince people of problems that don't exist. Taking a myopic view of an issue will always result in flawed analysis. Of course, this article didn't even provide analysis. It was at best an incendiary diatribe.

[F&Fmgr]

hmmm, i like the random facts like 99% of yellow tangs die within a year. would love to see the data on that.

 

having run a salt water only store for a couple years, i would multiple repeat customers. it's pretty rare to hear of any of them reporting even 25% losses, unless they were the type who basically had no clue.

 

i do think hobbyists need to be more aware of the potential impact of the hobby but most of us gravitate towards tank bred or aquacultured now anyway...and some of the coral/clam farms are offering a viable economic alternative to previous practices of just dredging up coral and using it as building material.

There is no way an all-marine shop, or even a full line pet store can operate with losses greater than 2-5%, it would kill the hobby, and the business... not to mention the problems it would cause to the reefs.

 

I think the article is accurate in many ways. We need to see the other side of the picture. We as reefers take our time to research and learn about our fish and corals. Most reef tanks makes good habitats. For every conscientious reefer, there are ten people who wants to take Nemo home in a glass jar.

 

Its a little bold to categorize people as reefers OR idiots. I bet there was a time once when you made a mistake in the beggining of your path in this hobby. It's a lil more complicated than that: there are experts, long time reefers who aren't experts(mostly keeping softies for years: i guess that makes them an expert. than there are the people who had luck with a tank in the past and you cant tell them anything... they eventually want to buy something and you try and go over the care and acclimation and they stop yopu mid sentence to say "i know, i have been keeping salt for ____ years". OK, i say. well guess who is back within a week because they dont know what a refractometer or alkalinity or hypo salinity is. those type of people don't want to hear that they did anything wrong. then of course there are two types of nemo "fishbowlers". the first kind will yes you to death when you ask them questions(which makes it difficult to gauge whether or not theyre full of it, so i throw some screwball questions in there just to make sure), these customers will usually have you bag the fish and get the food and start to ring them up when you begin to mention that "our fish salinity is around 1.015, so take your time when you drip them into the DT or QT". Then " wait, this is saltwater? What do I have to do to make my bowl/tank SW?" or "how do I know when they are done acclimating?". That is when the fish goes back in the tank. HelI I've even had wamas members with a "grandmaster Reefer"rating call me the day after buying a fish to say it died within an hour. I say "tell me what you did to acclimate it", then "well, I floated the bag for 15 minsthen mixed some of the water before I put them in" I mean fish can adjust to temp reasonably quick, but salinity and PH need to be matched before the fish is added to the tank. If youre reading this far down , then at that last statement you might say "duh, what salwater hobbyists don't know that?" the answers would surprise you.

 

I've also had people inquire about fish and i test their water and the tank isnt cycled yet. But they don't want to wait, so they drive to a petco and get a fish anyway. then the fish dies or gets sick, and guess who is back in the LFS trying to get a grasp on why they died . if they are nice enough to bring a water sample than i can show them WHY.

As far as the resposibility of LFS owners/operators, where do you draw the line of responsibility. We can shovel info at em until they are grey in the hair, but if they are too proud to ask a question, or can't take all of it in at one time but act like they are completely prepared...then when does it become buyers responsibility. In other words, if you give them all the info they could need to allow whatver animal they bought to thrive and not just survive, how do we know whats really going on in their heads. you lead a horse to water but you cant make them do water changes or check alk until they have a grasp for daily usage.

 

How many times have you seen fish sold in LFS that you know wont survive in your tank. They are in the store because they can be sold and some bloke is gonna buy the fish and kill it within a year.

I know my shop, as well as other conscientious saltwater retailers/stores won't stock or sell hard to keep livestock. That being said, there are some customers, who are pretty well educated that want to get something harder to keep because of it beauty, rarity, etc.. and are more than able to provide for them, so we get the coral/fish/invert for them.

 

I will add, lastly, that some of the best of my customer relationships have come from people not knowing what to do and actually care enough to listen to me, research on the internet, read books...anything. Just because someone is naive to the way things ought to work, that doesn't mean that they are indifferent to providing the right level of care for the animals. I like to think of these situations, like the above, as an oppurtunity to educate those who don't know but care enough to listen.

[Chad]

Wow, Brian, that was an eloquent abnegation of the article. I could not have said it better myself!

 

While I think it is very important to understand all sides of an issue, radical positions spurting hyperbole are not useful for anything except provocation.

 

 

[F&Fmgr]

Accusations and rhetoric with no scientific fact cited anywhere in the article. This is the same crap politicians pull all over the country to convince people of problems that don't exist. Taking a myopic view of an issue will always result in flawed analysis. Of course, this article didn't even provide analysis. It was at best an incendiary diatribe.

 

 

You said it better in 3 sentences than i could with a whole page!

[Charlie]

I noticed that there were zero footnotes and references. This would lead me to believe that most of his stuff is made up in order to sell his book.