The LFS

[Grav]

I don't want this to sound like I'm crying cuz I didn't get my way, just trying to understand.  I also don't want to hurt anyones business so I'm leaving out names.

 

Having gotten into this fraging thing, I've given it a few goes and I've had some success.  Managed to frag a 3 or 4 inch Leather and some Xena pom poms.  Anyway I walked in to the store feeling quite proud of myself. I had a pepermint and the Xena in tow and was planning to trade up to a skunk cleaner, get some LR and of course whatever else did it for me at the time.

 

To my surprise, I ended up not being congradulated as a "wizzard of the reef" as I expected, rather I ended up feeling like a 4nd class passenger on the Titanic.

 

"We don't do that today, I could take them from you but I can't give you credit." and "I don't think he will want the Pom Pom, we already have ONE."  Was the answer.  

 

Now I was off to the next LFS, slightly diffrent story, simmilar result.  Got the nice "atta boy!" I was looking for.  "Xena are harder to frag than people think, you need good water quality to do it.  HOWEVER, we are growing 8 diffrent breeds in the back..."  Maybe he was blowing smoke up my but, but at least he was nice.  I got $2 for the shrimp (okay) picked out some stuff and upon returning home, place the Xena right back where it came from.

 

Is this normal?  Granted it was a weekend, but the place was empty at the time.  Really, all I wanted was a $10 or $15 credit, and I would have spent $50 like I do every time.  

 

Did I do something wrong?  Was I off in my understanding of how the LFS views fragging?

[Guest tgallo]

local store's, there all the same. you wont get much for frags or xenia. i went around asking about bringing in frags for store credit and they all tell me yes bring them in, when i ask about store credit they all tell me the same thing $$$$ , very littile, it's not worth the effort in my book since you only get one or two dollars store credit. i see there point/ lfs   that is.they know you want to get rid of them and they can set the price wich is nothing.

[Gatortailale]

well, store credit is a funny thing.  Most are not going to give you anything more than what they pay at cost for the same item.  They also would have to take risk with fish and shrimp to acclimate and keep it alive till they sell it.

 

xenia,  most view it as a weed and easy to grow and frag.  Yes it can be demanding at times for good water, but for LFS they can easily get it in stock for almost nothing.

 

The more rare the item, the better chance you might get store credit.  lots of places sell peppermints for 6ish retail, and they probably only pay a few bucks or less to get them.  Remember,they have to add in cost of shipping livestock to store overnight, and add in cost of what livestock dies on arrival to make a profit.

 

Sorry I can't be of more help.

[AquariaUSA]

Sorry to hear about how you were treated! I think all of us at one point or another have felt great about a personal aquarist success, only to be "snobbed" by an advanced hobbyist or LFS employee. 10+ years ago keeping SPS corals for extended periods of time was something unheard of, now there are thousands of highly successful captive systems across the US. Heck, I have seen at least 15 incredible systems locally over the past two or three months! Even the most advanced keepers today run into system crashes, some hang in there, some jump ship, and the best ones are willing to teach and help newcomers. Many of these people can be found in WAMAS and CMAS, but sometimes the LFS can be a bit harder for they are primarily concerned about the bottom line.

 

As for your propagation of Xenia, congrats! It is always a great thing to read about a hobbyist witnessing captive propagation, versus a LFS having a wild colony die off in their holding systems. Although most Xenia species are considered easy to propagate like those have said above (give them decent water, current, ambient light, and they spread like wildfire) stores are reliant upon most being shipped in captive bred or from a "select" local supplier. Talking about what is in the backroom only goes so far...why brag about something the general public cannot see or buy? Why all LFS don't set up small "locally grown" propagated systems is a mystery, for wild colonies of Xenia are not the best shippers versus captive. If they pay a local customer $5 for a healthy stalk, mark it up to $15+ for new hobbyists to buy/try, they have made $10 for almost no work (no trips to the airport, no freight, no worry from dieoff if from a reputable supplier, etc.), and all the better if the captive xenia move fast (which they usually do). Don't choke on this one...but I have actually heard and seen retailers in a few places buy captive xenia for $2-5 and resell them the same day for $20-35!!!

 

If a store orders 50 or so corals from a supplier, you can bet that after they pay the freight, send an employee to pickup the order, pay for gas (+ vehicle insurance), they average at least $3-5 per coral...thus buying from local suppliers is not only smart, but one of the better business practices considering all the store has to do is supply the square footage, electricity and the products for you to buy with the store credit. Thus a $5-25 store credit turns right back into additional profits ($10 for each xenid they sell, plus the markup you pay when you buy dry or livegoods!!!)

 

Perhaps it was a bad day at the LFS, or the employee missed their lunch break, but if they care about their clients/customers (who pay their salary) you would have been treated better. I won't get into who pays what from what supplier for corals, but there is no reason you should not be able to get $5 or so for 1-3 full (1"+) polyps of Xenia if properly setup from the start. The silver tips and some of the others can command even more. Now if the stores you went to have several already in stock, perhaps it may have been best to call ahead and ask if they can take in more. Better yet, they could have taken your info for when they run out.

 

The next coral you may want to look at for captive propagation and selling to LFS are Montipora digitata, Montipora capricornus, and the Pocillaporids. These are usually hardier SPS corals which can get you $5-15 depending on species/coloration, but only after arranging this ahead of time with the LFS. Be sure if you go this route, you are careful to avoid/eliminate natural predators, etc.

 

Hopefully this helps you understand a little more what can be involved, and don't forget you always have other members to trade/sell/buy with! If you have not picked up Anthony Calfo's Coral Propagation book, it may have some great info in there for ya! Goodluck, and thank you for propagating corals (even if it's xenia!) at home!

 

Rich y Flor

[dgasmd]

Gav:

 

Don't be discouraged. LFS are out to make money, some more than others, and nothing else. Frags are not seen as profitable bussiness for them despite the logical reasons given above.

 

I went through the exact same thing a few months back. I decided not to even bother with them ever again. I found the best places to get frags is from local guys, some of which have some outstanding specimens and lots of hard to come by stuff. The yw ill always be your best asset. On the same token, they are also your best bet to unload some frags in the future as stuff grows in your tank.

 

Coming from someone that has a significant investment in equipment and livestock as well as maintenance, seling frags here and there is attractive to help curtail some of the costs. However, I rather flush any frags down the toilet than to sell them to any store after what they told me when I tried the first time. Pretty much the same experience as yours. That is another reason why I almost never buy anything from LFS, alive or not.99% of the time, I mail order them. That is just my personal beef, so please don't be influenced by my issues and internal anger. My therapist in working on those :D  :D

 

If you have frags, post them here and on the CMAS site. Bring them to the meetings and see if anyone is interested. Most times is best make arrangements before hand.

 

Good luck ::

[davidm]

Gav, I can second (or third) all of the above responses.  I also tried selling xenia to some local LFS about 3 yrs ago.  At first, one of the stores was somewhat eager, and I think i got about $30 or so per stalk, but after another couple of months I couldn't give the stuff away.  I think it became so avail it lost all of its value.  I just flush the stuff now - because I don't know what else to do.  Anyway, congrats on the success, but be careful to not let the xenia take over.  that's a mistake I'll try to not to repeat.  David

[AquariaUSA]

Hi Gav,

Glad to hear you are getting tons of responses! I hate to hear that any of us are discouraged from trading/selling with LFS, but it is their call.

 

So.... although we don't have $500-1000 to buy all the captive xenia we can get our hands on each month, I am willing to buy/trade/adopt what I can handle from those of you with captive bred xenias. I would rather drive to save the xenia from the toilet or trash can, than order them in from a coral supplier considering they are so easily bred in captivity. We always try to use as many captive bred species as we possibly can for clients who enjoy soft coral "movement" tanks, and most of the time give them xenia if we are overstocked.

 

Many thanks to Eve in Gaithersburg for the recent xenia "weed" donation, we owe ya!

 

Rich and Flor

AquariaUSA

sales@aquariausa.com

[bcjm]

AquariaUSA, are you a local store?  You website does not say anything and it is quite hard to navigate.

[Grav]

Thanks to everyone for the feedback.  It is good to know that I'm neither alone, nor crazy.  

 

Heck I'd rather trade it for anything, or give it to a newbie than flush or sell it for less than what I paid for the LR it is on.

 

BTW,

 

What is CMAS? Better yet, what is underwater rugby?  www.cmas.org

[AquariaUSA]

AquariaUSA is not a local store :(

 

We are a consulting, dev/install, and dedicated maintenance company with clients in a few SE states. The web you checked out is severely outdated, was only done on IE4 (no navigator access) and was ancient Flash work. We are in the process of launching the new site, but I have to finish the product pricing for an e-com area for clients, etc. Sorry you had to look at the old site, I have hated it for years

 

CMAS is the Chesapeake Marine Aquarium Society (the brother/sister group to WAMAS, but based in the Baltimore area) and can be found on the web at www.cmas-md.org Many CMAS members are also WAMAS members, vice versa CMAS :D

[BeltwayBandit]

Hey Grav,

 

I believe I was actually in one of the stores that you came into.  You had a shrimp and a frag, and the guy commented on your bagging of the shrimp, right?

 

Anyway, I was also very surprised to hear his response to you.  I just wanted to chime in and let you know I thought it was pretty crummy the way the gentleman treated you as well.

 

BB

[davidm]

AquariaUSA, I live in Vienna, you can arrange to stop by and pick up xenia anytime in the evenings or wkends.  e-mail at dmendel@gwu.edu

David

[Guest snapper]

FWIW IMO the only places that are worth looking into are TRT (but only every so often) and Roozens.  Everything else is crap or their prices far outweight their quality, customer service, and employee knowledge.

 

You're far better off trading frags within the club.  At least that way, you'll feel like you're getting a return on your efforts and members are, for the most part, honest brokers.

[Grav]

Beltway,

 

Yep that was me.  That is too funny!!

 

He was the nice guy in the story.  It may have been after you left, but he warmed up after a few min.  That place was like heaven after the 1st store.   They acted like I had a case of Ick.