Fazio92 October 15, 2009 Share October 15, 2009 enough to make it a 100% fully saturated solution. It's usually on the container on how much to achieve that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDiver October 15, 2009 Author Share October 15, 2009 enough to make it a 100% fully saturated solution. It's usually on the container on how much to achieve that. got it..thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDiver October 15, 2009 Author Share October 15, 2009 Fwiw, my params are stable via dosing.I just wanted to see if there's anyone here that have used both methods and prefer one over th other.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami October 15, 2009 Share October 15, 2009 Limewater is a balanced additive. That is, it delivers the right proportion of both alkalinty and calcium that your corals require into your system at once. Saturated limewater delivers 40.8 milliequivalents of alkalinity per liter, and has 808 ppm of calcium. The numbers change a little with temperature as kalk (calcium hydroxide) is less soluble as water temperatures increase. The pH of saturated kalkwasser is 12.54 at 25 degrees C. You can get a saturated solution by mixing 2 teaspoons of kalk powder into a gallon of RO/DI water and letting the particles settle out. The clear(ish) effluent should be saturated kalkwasser. Kalk is often dosed as part of an automatic top off system, compensating for the evaporation of fresh water from the aquarium. Because of the relatively low solubility of kalk (calcium hydroxide) in water, you can only deliver so much calcium and alkalinity before this approach (using it in top-off) reaches it's limit. There are alternatives that allow you to overcome this limit - such as dosing a slurry - but you need to be mindful of the resulting pH shift that can occur. Kalkwasser, as noted above, is very basic. (This is a tried and true article on limewater: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-01/rhf/index.php) A calcium reactor also delivers a balanced additive. It works by injecting carbon dioxide into tank water to make it more acidic. This acidic water is then passed over aragonite media to slowly dissolve it, supplementing the calcium and alkalinity in the acidic water. This solution is then dripped into the tank or the sump, to deliver the extra calcium and alkalinity to meet the tank's needs. Systems running calcium reactors alone often have a lower pH because of the extra CO2 that they carry from the reactor. This effect can be mitigated somewhat by dripping the effluent into a skimmer to help "blow off" the excess CO2, or can be passed over a second stage of aragonite media to bring the pH up further. Tuning a calcium reactor is fairly straightforward if you're using a controller. It's a little more complicated if you're not using one. Because our alkalinity levels are much lower (around 200 ppm, or 4 meq/l), and our test kits are more sensitive, we often monitor alkalinity to ensure that we're meeting our tank's needs and not dosing too much or too little. There are many articles on how to setup and to manually tune your calcium reactor, though. I find that using an internal pH probe and a pH controller to work very well. At that point, I only have to worry about how much effluent I'm dosing over time. My setup uses both kalkwasser and a calcium reactor. The kalkwasser helps me to maintain a higher pH than I would otherwise have normally. In this case, the calcium reactor is used to deliver the supplements that I can't get through kalk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandy7200 October 16, 2009 Share October 16, 2009 I used calcium reactors for years and switched to 2 part about 6 months ago mainly because I was bored with my equipment and I wanted to try something new. I already had lm3 and a few extra dosing pumps so it didn't cost me anything to try it out. Here is what I found......corals do not care how they get the ca + alk. Corals like stability. My wife understands how to run the dosing pumps but has no clue about fine tuning a ca reactor or how to change parameters on my ac3, this is good if something happens where I cannot fix the problem. Corals like high levels of ph, well actually I don't know if they like it but, they grow faster, advantage 2 part + kalk by a good amount. 2 part requires a little more frequent "hands on" maintenance but the calcium reactor needs "major" maintenance at least once a year, works out to about the same. If cost is the factor I don't think either one is much different if you want to have a very reliable and automated system however, if you need to buy parts "one at a time" to make the system the advantage goes to 2 part. Space, both require about the same for me. Looks cool, calcium reactor by a huge margin, especially if you use a Deltec and that crappy "mixed media" they sell for it, it looks super cool, you will impress a lot of people. In the end, for me, I will use 2 part until something different comes along. I like to try new things. I think balling is cool, will probably try that in the future. Kind of combines my need for things to look modern and high tech with the simplicity of something my wife could manage if something were to happen to me + I think higher levels of ph are possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDiver October 16, 2009 Author Share October 16, 2009 I used calcium reactors for years and switched to 2 part about 6 months ago mainly because I was bored with my equipment and I wanted to try something new. I already had lm3 and a few extra dosing pumps so it didn't cost me anything to try it out. Here is what I found......corals do not care how they get the ca + alk. Corals like stability. My wife understands how to run the dosing pumps but has no clue about fine tuning a ca reactor or how to change parameters on my ac3, this is good if something happens where I cannot fix the problem. Corals like high levels of ph, well actually I don't know if they like it but, they grow faster, advantage 2 part + kalk by a good amount. 2 part requires a little more frequent "hands on" maintenance but the calcium reactor needs "major" maintenance at least once a year, works out to about the same. If cost is the factor I don't think either one is much different if you want to have a very reliable and automated system however, if you need to buy parts "one at a time" to make the system the advantage goes to 2 part. Space, both require about the same for me. Looks cool, calcium reactor by a huge margin, especially if you use a Deltec and that crappy "mixed media" they sell for it, it looks super cool, you will impress a lot of people. In the end, for me, I will use 2 part until something different comes along. I like to try new things. I think balling is cool, will probably try that in the future. Kind of combines my need for things to look modern and high tech with the simplicity of something my wife could manage if something were to happen to me + I think higher levels of ph are possible. thats the kind of response i was looking for..thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origami October 16, 2009 Share October 16, 2009 Corals grow a bit faster in higher pH because they're able to lay their skeleton's down more easily. One reported down-side to two- or three-part that you may want to know about is salinity creep. The regimen will introduce mostly extra chloride and sodium ions into your system to create a growing imbalance. This comes about because for every calcium ion you add via the two-part calcium-chloride, you're adding two chloride ions; and, for every bicarbonate ion you add (from baking soda), you add another sodium ion to the tank; magnesium adds another two chloride ions as well. Thus, two part has a way of altering your salinity over the long term. Not to mention other long-lasting pollutants that may be present in the chemicals such as heavy metals and such. As long as you're keeping up with water changes, I think the effect is easily controlled, though. Two-part has the benefit that it can be used to correct calcium-alkalinity imbalances since it is, by it's very nature, a collection of imbalanced additives. On the flip-side, you can also introduce imbalances using two-part that you wouldn't introduce using balanced additives if not dosed in the proper amounts. Personally, I've always felt that Kalk was the best, first supplement (provided you take adequate protection against overdose) because it has so many advantages: 1) It's balanced by it's very nature yielding two bicarbonate ions for every calcium ion. 2) It's easily added through your top-off regimen. 3) It adds nothing more than you already need. No salinity creep. 4) It precipitates out heavy metals and phosphates. 5) It raises pH nicely. 6) It doesn't require a lot of equipment. You can just add it to your top-off reservoir, even. 7) It's inexpensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDiver October 16, 2009 Author Share October 16, 2009 That's also good info Tom..fwiw I'm using DTs Alk and Cal.. Corals grow a bit faster in higher pH because they're able to lay their skeleton's down more easily. One reported down-side to two- or three-part that you may want to know about is salinity creep. The regimen will introduce mostly extra chloride and sodium ions into your system to create a growing imbalance. This comes about because for every calcium ion you add via the two-part calcium-chloride, you're adding two chloride ions; and, for every bicarbonate ion you add (from baking soda), you add another sodium ion to the tank; magnesium adds another two chloride ions as well. Thus, two part has a way of altering your salinity over the long term. Not to mention other long-lasting pollutants that may be present in the chemicals such as heavy metals and such. As long as you're keeping up with water changes, I think the effect is easily controlled, though. Two-part has the benefit that it can be used to correct calcium-alkalinity imbalances since it is, by it's very nature, a collection of imbalanced additives. On the flip-side, you can also introduce imbalances using two-part that you wouldn't introduce using balanced additives if not dosed in the proper amounts. Personally, I've always felt that Kalk was the best, first supplement (provided you take adequate protection against overdose) because it has so many advantages: 1) It's balanced by it's very nature yielding two bicarbonate ions for every calcium ion. 2) It's easily added through your top-off regimen. 3) It adds nothing more than you already need. No salinity creep. 4) It precipitates out heavy metals and phosphates. 5) It raises pH nicely. 6) It doesn't require a lot of equipment. You can just add it to your top-off reservoir, even. 7) It's inexpensive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barebottomcorals_Ed October 16, 2009 Share October 16, 2009 I used calcium reactors for years and switched to 2 part about 6 months ago mainly because I was bored with my equipment and I wanted to try something new. I already had lm3 and a few extra dosing pumps so it didn't cost me anything to try it out. Here is what I found......corals do not care how they get the ca + alk. Corals like stability. My wife understands how to run the dosing pumps but has no clue about fine tuning a ca reactor or how to change parameters on my ac3, this is good if something happens where I cannot fix the problem. Corals like high levels of ph, well actually I don't know if they like it but, they grow faster, advantage 2 part + kalk by a good amount. 2 part requires a little more frequent "hands on" maintenance but the calcium reactor needs "major" maintenance at least once a year, works out to about the same. If cost is the factor I don't think either one is much different if you want to have a very reliable and automated system however, if you need to buy parts "one at a time" to make the system the advantage goes to 2 part. Space, both require about the same for me. Looks cool, calcium reactor by a huge margin, especially if you use a Deltec and that crappy "mixed media" they sell for it, it looks super cool, you will impress a lot of people. In the end, for me, I will use 2 part until something different comes along. I like to try new things. I think balling is cool, will probably try that in the future. Kind of combines my need for things to look modern and high tech with the simplicity of something my wife could manage if something were to happen to me + I think higher levels of ph are possible. are you running doseing pumps with AC3? Im currently dosing 2 part b-ionic and want to set thing up more " hands free" after christmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fazio92 October 16, 2009 Share October 16, 2009 Main reason i got the Ca reactor "hands free", with the ACIII of course! Buying dosing pumps could cost just as much as a used Ca reactor setup. are you running doseing pumps with AC3? Im currently dosing 2 part b-ionic and want to set thing up more " hands free" after christmas Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDiver October 16, 2009 Author Share October 16, 2009 Main reason i got the Ca reactor "hands free", with the ACIII of course! Buying dosing pumps could cost just as much as a used Ca reactor setup. yea my Profilux costs $500.... i gotta lead on a cheap reactor setup thats why i wanted to know if its worth it...do you see more growth out of a reactor instead of 2 part dosing is my main question... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDiver October 16, 2009 Author Share October 16, 2009 are you able to dose kalk in the topoff without running a calcium reactor?...now i'm starting to think it might just be a ph problem....i mean i get growth, just not crazy growth like i see from other tanks that run reactor/stirrer... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fazio92 October 16, 2009 Share October 16, 2009 Personally, Yes i did. I think this is mainly due to the fact that i could not keep up with the consumption requirements using two-part since my tank consumes heavily (AKA, testing the parameters then dosing to the correct amount, almost everyday!). It was just too much time i did not have to spare using two-part. Changing to the reactor made my life and my corals life much much easier. And man are they starting to pop in color and growth! Personally, I am extremely happy with my decision to move from two-part to a Ca reactor. Again my experience. yea my Profilux costs $500.... i gotta lead on a cheap reactor setup thats why i wanted to know if its worth it...do you see more growth out of a reactor instead of 2 part dosing is my main question... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fazio92 October 16, 2009 Share October 16, 2009 are you able to dose kalk in the topoff without running a calcium reactor?...now i'm starting to think it might just be a ph problem....i mean i get growth, just not crazy growth like i see from other tanks that run reactor/stirrer... Yes, that is the first thing that i did before two-part and a Ca reactor. See how it works its a great thing, just have to be careful not to let it overdose! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDiver October 16, 2009 Author Share October 16, 2009 Yes, that is the first thing that i did before two-part and a Ca reactor. See how it works its a great thing, just have to be careful not to let it overdose! thanks for all your input Fazio, i'm just hesitant because i don't wanna change whats working but i do wanna better the system if i could... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fazio92 October 16, 2009 Share October 16, 2009 If you ever want to, your welcome to come by and see the difference in person, as much regrowth is occuring now! And can show you what i did and how i did the switch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDiver October 16, 2009 Author Share October 16, 2009 If you ever want to, your welcome to come by and see the difference in person, as much regrowth is occuring now! And can show you what i did and how i did the switch. i may have to take u up on that offer, i live and work in Tysons so i'm not too far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandy7200 October 16, 2009 Share October 16, 2009 Corals grow a bit faster in higher pH because they're able to lay their skeleton's down more easily. Yes, raising ph makes the calcium more easily absorbed by the skeleton. No different than with us humans, this is why you are advised not to eat a high acid diet when taking calcium supplements. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandy7200 October 16, 2009 Share October 16, 2009 are you running doseing pumps with AC3? Im currently dosing 2 part b-ionic and want to set thing up more " hands free" after christmas No, I am using a litermeter for dosing. I used the ac3 to control calcium reactor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Camaron October 16, 2009 Share October 16, 2009 I used calcium reactors for years and switched to 2 part about 6 months ago mainly because I was bored with my equipment and I wanted to try something new. I already had lm3 and a few extra dosing pumps so it didn't cost me anything to try it out. Here is what I found......corals do not care how they get the ca + alk. Corals like stability. My wife understands how to run the dosing pumps but has no clue about fine tuning a ca reactor or how to change parameters on my ac3, this is good if something happens where I cannot fix the problem. Corals like high levels of ph, well actually I don't know if they like it but, they grow faster, advantage 2 part + kalk by a good amount. 2 part requires a little more frequent "hands on" maintenance but the calcium reactor needs "major" maintenance at least once a year, works out to about the same. If cost is the factor I don't think either one is much different if you want to have a very reliable and automated system however, if you need to buy parts "one at a time" to make the system the advantage goes to 2 part. Space, both require about the same for me. Looks cool, calcium reactor by a huge margin, especially if you use a Deltec and that crappy "mixed media" they sell for it, it looks super cool, you will impress a lot of people. In the end, for me, I will use 2 part until something different comes along. I like to try new things. I think balling is cool, will probably try that in the future. Kind of combines my need for things to look modern and high tech with the simplicity of something my wife could manage if something were to happen to me + I think higher levels of ph are possible. Interesting, i feel good now about buying a dosing pump now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fazio92 October 16, 2009 Share October 16, 2009 i may have to take u up on that offer, i live and work in Tysons so i'm not too far. So do I. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDiver October 16, 2009 Author Share October 16, 2009 What do you guys think about just dosing kalk in my topoff in conjunction with dosing 2 part via doser...I'm trying to explore every alternative that won't b too drastic of a change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandy7200 October 16, 2009 Share October 16, 2009 What do you guys think about just dosing kalk in my topoff in conjunction with dosing 2 part via doser...I'm trying to explore every alternative that won't b too drastic of a change. That is what I do now and love it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DDiver October 16, 2009 Author Share October 16, 2009 Oops I guess Dandy already answered that question...so now my question is I go through about a gallon per day of topoff...how much kalk would I have to mix into that water to be efficient but not overdose... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dandy7200 October 16, 2009 Share October 16, 2009 A gallon/day of fully saturated kalkwasser (2T/gal) would be fine for your system. You do need to make sure that it is controlled dosing so not more than a few ounces is added each time the ATO kicks on. I add 5-7 gallons of fully saturated solution to my system/day but it is controlled via the litermeter so each addition is very small. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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