why are T5's better than PC or VHO?

[zygote2k]

It seems like there's always a debate about the different types of fluorescent lighting, but if PAR readings are what we should be most concerned with, why can't I find any charts that show definitive proof that 1 type is better than the other?

Are T5's better because marketers say so? Or because that's what they use in Europe? Isn't a CF bulb just a folded version of a T5?

[cabrego]

With respect to T5 vs PC I too am under the understanding that the bulbs are essentially the same type of bulb, T5 is just not bent in half. Based on what I have read during my past research T5's are generally considered "better" because you can get more par per watt because of the capability to add single bulb reflectors. Thus, they are more efficient and generally considered superior to PC. That being said, I struggled wondering which was better for my small tank some time ago, and purchased a 24" 130 Watt PC Coral life unit that I used for a month or two, and then replaced it with a 24" 96watt NOVA extreme. In generally, thought the color from the T5 was more pleasing and slightly brighter, I am sure If i would have done a retro kit with single bulb reflectors, I would have noticed an even better difference.

 

I have no experience with VHO.

[trockafella]

Neither T5 or PC have anything on a VHO actinic bulb... Cant speak for daylight bulbs, I am a MH guy...

[Coral Hind]

Neither T5 or PC have anything on a VHO actinic bulb... Cant speak for daylight bulbs, I am a MH guy...

 

Some PC bulbs are classified as VHO(very high output).

[trockafella]

Didnt know that.. I just love the color/flourescing from vho's, I have used all 3 and like VHo better, T5's are still nice though.. Not much of a fan of pc lights.. But to each there own..

[Boret]

I am with trockafella on this one. For fluorescence POP there is nothing that even comes close to T12 VHO UV Lighting Co. Super Actinics. The fact that a 24" VHO will provide 75 watts its also important.

 

I had a 4' fixture in my old 55 with 2 250W MH and 2 48" 54w T5 for Blue supplementation. I never got a good blue color out of those.

 

Sunny_X at RC won TOTM with just T5s in his tank. If you have a good Fixture with individual reflectors and can find the right combination of T5 bulbs (there many different types now a days -- Blue +, Actinic, Fiji Purple, etc...) then you can probably achieve fantastic colors.

 

For me, as far as I have seen, and keeping in mind my limited knowledge, nothing beats Radium 20k + VHO Super Actinic.

[El Camaron]

I first started my BioCube with PC lighting and i can tell you from experience that there is no comparison in coral tissue coloration and growth when compared to T5's, the fixture i have now is a TEK which has its own refelctors for each bulb and im sure that is one major factor that helps but i am much happier with the T5's plus it runs cooler than my PC's did and of course way cooler that MH.

[ctenophore]

T5s are better than PC because they have optimized individual reflectors that allows the bulb to put a ton of light into a tank for the price. They also come in many different spectra and can be densely packed. PCs just don't compare in par output or spectrum. Don't take my word for it though, let your corals tell you.

 

T5s are better than VHO for mainly the same reasons- you can pack more per square foot, hence more light output. I disagree with the VHO actinic not having a comparable T5 bulb- there are several 22k+ and actinic T5s that bring out the same intense color as URI's VHO actinic. Since I've switched my supplemental lights from 6x5' VHO actinic to a mix of (6) T5s, my coral coloration has greatly improved. So far, every single person who has seen my tank before and after agrees

[trockafella]

"nothing beats Radium 20k + VHO Super Actinic" +1

 

Not to say other set ups are equally as brilliant, but im with boret... I have seen some awesome T5 set ups for sure, I love the shimmer of halides, and the flourescents of VHO's, together its a winning combo, atleast for me.. The flourescent bulb arguement is the same as the 10k, 14k, 20k MH arguement, al in personal taste.. As long as your happy with what youve got, more power to you..!!

[zygote2k]

anyone have any par readingss to compare so, ho, vho. pc?

[mexicanjavafish]

Since I've switched my supplemental lights from 6x5' VHO actinic to a mix of (6) T5s, my coral coloration has greatly improved. So far, every single person who has seen my tank before and after agrees

 

I very much agree with this statement. At this point I'm debating the lighting choice for my/our new set up being as right now we're running 4 x t5 + 2 x VHO

[ctenophore]

I very much agree with this statement. At this point I'm debating the lighting choice for my/our new set up being as right now we're running 4 x t5 + 2 x VHO

Just add 2x150w DE 14k or 20k and that setup will rock. This is for the 125 right?

[Sikryd]

I have a par meter, but no pc lights that work, otherwise I would.

 

I guess out of curiosity it would be good to find out. Other than that, I don't see why anyone would want to skimp on lighting with the amount of benefit that comes with running a T-5 instead of a PC. The cost comparison isn't that big, yet the benefits can be seen in coral growth and color. That is all I really use to tell me how my lights are doing.

 

I just borrowed my buddies par meter since that area under one of my 250's (4x250w + 4x39 T-5's) wasn't growing as good as I thought it should. Sure enough the par was down 200 under that bulb. Then I switched the ballast it was on with another bulb to make sure it was the bulb. It was. I pmed Amay last night and added one to my order.

 

I think watching our corals closely can give us more information about our tank than just the #'s or specs per-se.

 

I'll see if I can get a PC light to test it on for shots and giggles though.

[zygote2k]

Hard to say what the actual par reading over your t5's are if they are flooded with 1000w of mh and whether or not the t5's are doing anything for growth when combined with that much mh.

 

so- not trying to point fingers at you Chad, but in general I have only heard speculation as to why T5's are better- no hard proof other than what the market dictates and people say.

Edited September 5, 2009 by zygote2k

[Sikryd]

Hard to say what the actual par reading over your t5's are if they are flooded with 1000w of mh and whether or not the t5's are doing anything for growth when combined with that much mh.

 

so- not trying to point fingers at you Chad, but in general I have only heard speculation as to why T5's are better- no hard proof other than what the market dictates and people say.

 

 

Lol - I wasn't speaking about my tank and T-5's vs. PC's at all. I just brought that up about the coral being able to tell you whether or not they are getting what they need.

 

The T-5's do NOTHING in my tank except are for visual supplementation.

 

I had an all T-5 tank before and hated it. The colors were cool and stuff, but missed the shimmer.

I also have PC's on my QT tank. They're fine for lighting it up, but thats about it. If I can get the bulb to fire up tomorrow I'll test it to see what par it is throwing out.

It wouldn't be fair to judge growth off a QT tank where a coral isn't even settled in. So I have no idea what a straight up PC lit tank would do for growth or color.

 

I've kind of followed the crowd, and all the knowledgable reefers that have been around for 20 years. There is a reason they aren't using PC's anymore, they just aren't as good or efficient as T-5's.

 

To be honest - I would laugh if I saw $50 pc's lighting up a tank with $500 in coral. It just doesn't add up since T-5's don't cost that much more and are more efficient.

Edited September 5, 2009 by Sikryd

[Coral Hind]

T5s are better than PC because they have optimized individual reflectors that allows the bulb to put a ton of light into a tank for the price. They also come in many different spectra and can be densely packed.

 

I totally agree with this and the mixing of bulbs is a huge benefit. T-5 means 5/8" diameter. The PC bulbs we use in the hobby are T-6 = 6/8" diameter. The smaller size allows the arc passing through the tube to excite the phosphor coating better. The bent shape of the PC actually causes it to block out some of its own light that it generates so even if it is used with a reflector the light produced is lost.

 

A typical 65w PC lamp produces approximately 4,000 lumens. A typical 54w T5 HO fluorescent lamp produces 5,000 lumens. So right there you can see that you're starting out with 25% more lumens from the 54w T5 HO lamp vs. the 65w PC lamp. Granted we normally use PAR/PUR to measure light in this hobby but more lumens usually means more PAR.

[Jager]

besides the comments above, t5 lighting is specialized in that you get more bang for your buck, extremely high par/pur values across the board kelvin wise while taking less wattage then vhos and less space. overall the cost per usable Par is extremely good, while overall penetration is very good as well. so other then heat (which is fixable by fans), the t5 is very good as far as choices of bulbs also the t5 when cooled can up to double the PAR (according to testign on RC).

 

bulb life is rather good at a year or so per change out, and bulbs are not overly expensive, so about equal between swapping 6 bulbs and 2 good MH bulbs. (for a 75 gallon tank 6 bulbs is almost overkill) and the ability to custom swap your color if you prefer whiter bluer or more pop means you can easily tune the spectrum you want.

 

its also comparable to MH as far as coral growing ability, so if you plan to not use MH t5s do extremely well at growing coral.

[zygote2k]

besides the comments above, t5 lighting is specialized in that you get more bang for your buck, extremely high par/pur values across the board kelvin wise while taking less wattage then vhos and less space. overall the cost per usable Par is extremely good, while overall penetration is very good as well. so other then heat (which is fixable by fans), the t5 is very good as far as choices of bulbs also the t5 when cooled can up to double the PAR (according to testign on RC).

 

bulb life is rather good at a year or so per change out, and bulbs are not overly expensive, so about equal between swapping 6 bulbs and 2 good MH bulbs. (for a 75 gallon tank 6 bulbs is almost overkill) and the ability to custom swap your color if you prefer whiter bluer or more pop means you can easily tune the spectrum you want.

 

its also comparable to MH as far as coral growing ability, so if you plan to not use MH t5s do extremely well at growing coral.

This sounds like marketing at its' finest. No offense, but can anyone provide some PAR charts that actually show a comparison of different lights and their respective PAR values?

I wan't to believe that T5's are they way to go with fluorescent lights, but I can only find opinions about their supposed worth over other types of fluorescent lighting.

[Stephen]

A little trip to Reef Central with the same question will get you all the facts/evidence/proof you need.

[Jager]

This sounds like marketing at its' finest. No offense, but can anyone provide some PAR charts that actually show a comparison of different lights and their respective PAR values?

I wan't to believe that T5's are they way to go with fluorescent lights, but I can only find opinions about their supposed worth over other types of fluorescent lighting.

 

 

actually that is kind of offensive, what I wrote isn't spin or "marketing" but seeing as you wanted hard facts

 

each bulb costs 20-30 bucks has the par below, and each fixture can be altered anywhere from 6000 k light up to 22000k colored light and anywhere inbetween by mixing and matching.

par values are listed below, par values go up the cooler the bulbs run, up to 50% more then the tek fixture i and grim use.

the ati reflectors /icecaps are better then the current crop of teks for even more par.

 

uses less wattage then a comparable par valued MH setup, and directs less heat to your tank then MH generally not requiring as powerful of a cooling solution ergo the bang for your buck comment. I have 6 bulbs which is comparable to a 2x250w mh with (t5s are slightly stronger) with less heat (my tank requires no chiller sits at 78-79 deg) so i spend less money.

 

here are a few of the many threads to read. I have personally used T5 for about 3 years now, and am certainly happy with its performance.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.p...mp;pagenumber=1

that is the earliest the t5 Q&A goes to before the RC archives take over

 

it has split 23 times so far and is still going. one of the longest threads currently on RC along with the MH thread. you may wish to start near the end and not read all 23000 posts.

 

if you want to see hard data then search for "grimreefer" on RC. he has done as much testing on T5 as sanjay has done for MH lighting.

 

if that isn't enough

 

http://tfivetesting.googlepages.com/par

 

lists every par test grim has done without explaining the fixtures or other tips and tricks for pulling out the most par (using fans on the bulbs etc)

 

btw that's per bulb in those tests. not per fixture i suggest you read the other pages there in conjunction with RC to get the best ideas of what you can do with the various fixtures and bulbs depending on your stock list.

 

 

if you want mh par numbers this is the definitive site for sanjays info though RC carries his tests as well.

http://www.manhattanreefs.com/lighting

Edited September 5, 2009 by Jager

[zygote2k]

Thanks- it really did sound like marketing spiel that I always heard before, but until you posted those links, I had no way of actually knowing the associated par values of T5's. Can you find any on PC's or VHO's? BTW, 1st link doesn't work. Really wasn't trying to offend, I apologize if it did.

[Jager]

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.p...mp;pagenumber=1

 

should fix it the forum ate the freaking link.

 

as for pc/vho par values Id suggest reading on RC, the lighting forum is a wealth of information as well as photos of long term growth etc.

 

i cannot find any easy to locate threads that show charts, but simple math can shed some light on options

VHO uses more wattage to put out its light, so even if it were better it would have to be at least double the par to outperform a t5 (110w versus 54w 48" bulbs) also the size of a vho bulb is about an inch bigger so assumign a quality reflector, you could get 2 t5s in the space of 1 vho. why is the VHO still popular? because VHO actinics are impressive. see more below.

 

pc is useless to measure as it is much weaker at any depth , pretty much unusable past 15-18" (most accept that pc's are useless past 12" but either way YMMV as far as use); and is again wasting half of its light being bent around or hitting the other bulb(for the 2 straights) bulbs are also as expensive if not more so then VHO or T5 so not sure why you would use them anyway. lifespan versus t5HO or VHO is pitiful (most recommend 6 months per PC bulb, 12 months max) t5ho and VHO last at least a year and easily can be a year and a half before par values drop too low or bulb blackening is an issue.

 

VHO's make great supplement lights, and for actinics you have many names in the game that swear by them. the photographic proof is compelling and for several years t5 lamps were lacking in any appreciable manner to approach that sort of "pop" from VHO's. now with the fiji coral lamps and several "super" actinic 22k+ color lamps as well as the 14k and 15k lamps the t5 actinic is not lacking its fairly even with the VHO. its all in your eye though as to what you think is acceptable, so again RC and its wealth of photos and setups is worth digging through.

 

that being said No one is going to fault you for using VHO actinics, however vho full spectrum lamps are not as wide ranging as t5s nor as cheap to run, so if you planned to light a tank id use t5s for the main lighting and if you preferred VHO colors to use that for the actinic pop.

 

I prefer a 10k-12k setup, so i use a different combination then most today, but I am considering moving to the fiji kz coral lamps to push my color to a 15k area overall.

 

your tank size as well as depth and choice of corals makes all the difference, posting that can help anyone here or on RC point you toward the right types of bulbs then you can customize the right overall kelvin range to suite your tastes. most of the LFS's in the area carry the bulbs/fixtures, so checking them out in person may be helpful.

 

I know BRK and F&F both let myself and Ybe fireup and check out some bulbs , and Id imagine some of the newer places would be just as helpful, I just have not been to any of them.

Edited September 5, 2009 by Jager

[trockafella]

Everyone says that T5's take up less space, but a T5 with an individual reflector takes up more space than a VHO bulb..

[Jager]

while that is true, you are forgetting that a good VHO reflector is simply an upsized t5 reflector. so while simpler half moon shapes are fine for the actinics, most seem to be using the gullwing style ice cap reflectors which take up more room.

 

again YMMV, so dig through RC and see actual setups to decide what you want. reef lighting is more about what your eye sees as pretty or makes the corals "pop" then what is actually helping coral growth when you are discussing actinic supplementation (in comparison to the main lightings par/pur output)