dandy7200 December 29, 2009 December 29, 2009 Dave, welcome to WAMAS I don't think the minijet will cut it. I tested the unit with a mj1200 and it was not a problem, you just need enough pump to push through that 2psi of back pressure. The pressure relief will have a slight mist out of it at all times, check out the video that was posted for a real good look at it in operation. Also note the solution to quiet it down 3" diameter is a smaller than the one I tested so I can't tell you where to dial in the air pump, I think the best thing to do is to aim for 2psi internal reactor pressure and plug your tank volume into the formulas I posted earlier in the thread to determine flow through the reactor. If you are at 2psi with the right flow rate and 50% air pump then your good to go. Definitely post pics and details of your build here. I am hoping sailfintang documents his build here as well.
DFason December 29, 2009 December 29, 2009 Thanks for the reply. Do you mind to tell me where you picked up the silicon oring? I hate having to pick up one oring and pay shipping! With the back pressure do you just use a small fitting that you can adjust? With the MJ1200, did you have to cut it back or does the back pressure do that for you? I will post pictures, I have my sanders unit and just put the order in for the tube from a local place around town. I did not see the formula that you had posted. Think you could post that on here again or shoot me a PM? I needed to use a smaller footprint only because I dont have a ton of room to work with. My new tank build will be 30x22x18 so the stand only has 30x22 space, hence why I went a little bit smaller. On a side note I am doing a really cool DIY build for a hybrid tank. PVC bottom, glass sides. I can post pictures when I am finished with that too. Thanks guys! -Dave
DFason December 29, 2009 December 29, 2009 Found the formula! So I am going to have ~60 gallons of water total. Running a 25mg/hr that is adjustable. Starting out do you think it is safe to do 5/10mg and work my way up from there? Only reason I was thinking a smaller pump was because my reactor is smaller but if you think it wont be able to handle the pressure I'll trust you. -Dave
dandy7200 December 30, 2009 December 30, 2009 I think starting at 10mg would be safe. Do you have a controller for orp? The pump doesn't care how big the reactor is, only the pressure inside matters. It's no different than calculating head pressure really, gravity = psi
DFason December 30, 2009 December 30, 2009 Thanks for the info dandy. I will have my RKL with a ORP probe to keep the ORP in line. Should be getting the materials next week for the reactor. For the time being my new golden dwarf moray will have to keep me busy -Dave
DFason January 6, 2010 January 6, 2010 Well I just picked up my acrylic tube's and ordered the silicon oring, kynar fittings and screws. Hope to start working on this in the next 2-3 weeks. Should be an easy project once everything is in. Dandy - Did you use 3/16 fittings on everything? -Dave
sailfintang January 8, 2010 January 8, 2010 Finished my build a few days ago on the unit. I have a few things to modify/fix o nthe unit all together but over all I am very pleased with the outcome. Thank you very much for this thread and the insight you all provided. The build was not as clean as I had expected but for my second DIY I am very happy with the results. ------------------------------------------------ Photos of the construction: Top Drip plate Routed Base Constructed Base
dandy7200 January 9, 2010 January 9, 2010 Nice! I didn't even glue that bottom drip plate on, looks like you did. Doubt it makes a difference either way. I don't see your pressure valve tube stem though, is it in there?
sailfintang January 9, 2010 January 9, 2010 Nice! I didn't even glue that bottom drip plate on, looks like you did. Doubt it makes a difference either way. I don't see your pressure valve tube stem though, is it in there? yes I glued the bottom plate to the base, the pressure valve has not been attached yet awaiting it to come in. Looking forward to building my kalk reactor next, just have to find a decent stir motor.
basser9 January 10, 2010 January 10, 2010 I dont think anybody showed what a burp tube is and where you put it or why you need it.... Dan i have only herd it called a burp tube and the use of pressure valve through me off THERE are some ozone pressure valves but they operate at higher psi then needed Your burp tube is just a rigid airline tube connected to the exit nipple RUN it to the bottom of the reactor to where you want the water level to be It works like a siphon break
dandy7200 January 10, 2010 January 10, 2010 basser, we are talking about the same device. Burp or pressure relief is kinda the same thing when you think about it There is a pretty good picture of it in post #59 of this thread.
sailfintang March 16, 2010 March 16, 2010 So it has been a while on this thread but I figured now that I got a pressure rated air pump I have a pressure issues. I can no get the pressure above 1 on the gauge I run the luft pump through a check valve, into the air dryer (large red sea model), through the ozone unit, into another check valve, into the reactor. I can not have more than 5 ft of air tubing. I have tried messing with the input out put levels but the pressure stays at 1. I have also bled the gauge with the safety valve and it still registers at 1 psi. Any ideas how ti get the PSI at 2 like in the video.
dandy7200 March 19, 2010 March 19, 2010 What feed pump are you using? What gph do you get with output valve completely open? What gph do you get at 1 psi? What happens when you close the valve even more? How about closing it 100% with the input still going and the air pump on full blast? Can you take the air line and check valve off and just leave the fitting on, then close the output valve and run water and air full blast, this will cause the reactor to fill to the top with water and out air inlet and let you see if there are any leaks..... What was your orp before you installed the reactor? What is it now? How are you controlling it? What size ozone generator? How many hours a day does it run? Water volume? Do you notice a improvement in water clarity? Quality?
ctenophore March 19, 2010 March 19, 2010 So it has been a while on this thread but I figured now that I got a pressure rated air pump I have a pressure issues. I can no get the pressure above 1 on the gauge I run the luft pump through a check valve, into the air dryer (large red sea model), through the ozone unit, into another check valve, into the reactor. I can not have more than 5 ft of air tubing. I have tried messing with the input out put levels but the pressure stays at 1. I have also bled the gauge with the safety valve and it still registers at 1 psi. Any ideas how ti get the PSI at 2 like in the video. Make sure you haven't blown a seal on the air dryer or ozone unit. They are not designed to be pressurized. Your answer to Dan's question of valving back the output will tell a lot- that is how you create pressure in the reactor. The feed pump needs to be strong enough to handle whatever pressure buildup you induce by restricting the output.
sailfintang March 19, 2010 March 19, 2010 Wow so many questions. I was not very specific I apologize. Any how lets start answering as many as I can: What feed pump are you using? quiet one 4000 (1000 gph) which feeds a manifold I tee off for all my needs that includes, return to DT, return to FRAG, O3 reactor and soon my CA Reactor. Calculated head loss and it should handle it okay. What gph do you get with output valve completely open? ~100gph i woudl have to do some math cause it leaves and then goes into a TLF 150 reactor of carbon/gfo What gph do you get at 1 psi? running wide open so about 100 gph What happens when you close the valve even more? water drops in reactor and pressure will fluctuate as it drains fills inside the reactor How about closing it 100% with the input still going and the air pump on full blast? Have to test this Can you take the air line and check valve off and just leave the fitting on, then close the output valve and run water and air full blast, this will cause the reactor to fill to the top with water and out air inlet and let you see if there are any leaks..... Will have to test this. Couldn't this cause water to back pressure into the ozone unit? What was your orp before you installed the reactor? Not sure I think 280 - 300 What is it now? It reads around 400-425 but I think my probe may need replaced How are you controlling it? Milwaukee ORP controller in the sump to monitor the level and shut it off when above 350 What size ozone generator? 100 M/g Read Sea set to only put in 5% at all times How many hours a day does it run? Minutes maybe Water volume? Total ~80 gallons Do you notice a improvement in water clarity? Quality? Yes I think it allowed more light into the tank fading some of the corals. well I have some testing to perform later on. will update again after that.
dandy7200 March 19, 2010 March 19, 2010 I will give a more complete answer when you have performed the test however one thing here that looks obvious to me is that you just don't have enough pressure feeding your reactor from water input. While your pump can produce the required flow it is not creating enough pressure. A very easy way to change this is to add a valve after the tee that feeds your reactor and before the output to your tank. By closing this valve you will create some pressure to push towards your reactor. You shouldn't loose too much flow to your tank, only 10-15% would be my best guess. Oh, and disconnect the generator before performing the leak test. You just need some tubing on it and direct it back to the tank for the test.
sailfintang March 19, 2010 March 19, 2010 I will give a more complete answer when you have performed the test however one thing here that looks obvious to me is that you just don't have enough pressure feeding your reactor from water input. While your pump can produce the required flow it is not creating enough pressure. A very easy way to change this is to add a valve after the tee that feeds your reactor and before the output to your tank. By closing this valve you will create some pressure to push towards your reactor. You shouldn't loose too much flow to your tank, only 10-15% would be my best guess. Oh, and disconnect the generator before performing the leak test. You just need some tubing on it and direct it back to the tank for the test. Dan, I have a quick connect fitting after the T from my manifold (which also has a shut off switch to the reactor) to the reactor so I can quickly take it off line and it is a 1/2" ball valve connector. On the reactors return output to the sump I have another 1/2" ball valve for control. If I am understanding this right I can just cut the flow going into the reactor to raise the pressure or even possibly reduce the output to put pressure in to the reactor itself? I will see what difference this makes with the PSI. -Will
dandy7200 March 19, 2010 March 19, 2010 No, you need to valve after your tee off from the manifold on the tank return side of the plumbing to create the backpressure to the reactor. ..Pump.. ...|... ..tee.. |.....| |.....| o3...to tank |.....|... |...New Valve... |.....| |....tank You have enough flow but the water is taking the path of least resistance. Put more than 1psi of pressure on your return to the tank and then you will be able to achieve greater than 1psi inside the reactor as that will then be less resistive. HTH
sailfintang March 22, 2010 March 22, 2010 So i have tested what was recommended and the same result with the reactor. I am still getting about 1 PSI inside. I removed the ozone unit, air dryer, and cehck valve so nothing but air & water is pumping into the reactor. I create back pressure on the manifold by restricting flow from the pump to the manifold no change. I can only think there is an air leak somewhere. here is a crude sketch of my manifold to give you and idea of what it looks like. I have restricted the ballvalve after the pump to the return lines to create pressure this may not have been correct but thats what it looked like I needed to do.
ctenophore March 23, 2010 March 23, 2010 It looks like you have a valve between two of your "spare" lines. Both the valve directly after the pump and the valve to the ozone reactor should be wide open. Close the valves to the 20G FT and display tank to create back pressure. On the output side of the ozone reactor you should have a valve as well, this should be partially closed to build back pressure.
dandy7200 March 23, 2010 March 23, 2010 I agree, close every valve except the one to the o3 reactor then valve back the output of the reactor, if the pressure rises then you just need to get a dedicated pump, good news is that a mj1200 can handle it. If pressure doesn't go up then we can eliminate the plumbing from being the issue.
sailfintang March 25, 2010 March 25, 2010 Good news all. After playing around with some valves and drain lines I was able to get the reactor up to about 1.8 PSI with it running through a modified RO Canister air dryer, through the ozone generator, and out the relief valve and the O3 Reactor, all using the same Quiet one 4000 pump. Thanks for the tips just took a lot of tweaking.
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