Guest Scott324 January 16, 2003 Share January 16, 2003 Hello all, I recently received a pair of Orchid Dottybacks (pseudochromis fridmani) and they have already layed their first batch of eggs. I am not really set up for this, but would like to give it my best effort. I have ordered some rotifers from mountaincorals.com, but unfortunately they will not be here until monday. My hatch is scheduled to occur saturday or sunday night. Does anyone out there have any rotfiers they can spare? I can return the favor next week sometime. I am planning on only trying to rear half of the fry for my first attempt, so hopefully I will not need that much, plus I am not really setup for this yet. ALso, I was curious if anyone had ever heard of stress spawning in fish. I know it seems to happen with the BTA's, but thought the same may hold true for Fish. Also, any green water anyone could spare would be great, as I only have 2 gallons going now and don't think that will last long (seeing as how I can only use about halfof my supply so I have enough for the future). I am keeping a log so I can speak with the speakers at the next meeting. wish me luck :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelg January 16, 2003 Share January 16, 2003 Scott- I have an extra bottle of green water (2L) that I will bring to the meeting. I haven'ts started my rotifer cultures yet, but have an extra vial of cysts if you want them (will take a while to grow out though- so won't help with immediate need). Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scott324 January 16, 2003 Share January 16, 2003 Michael, THanks, I may be able to get through the first day until I get the rotifers. The green water will definately help, but I am beginning to think if it's worth the effort. I just talked to the owner of Inland Aquatics and he said very few hobbyists have been successful in rearing pseudochromis. I am going to give it a shot, but we shall see. I am also looking into other means of feeding rotifers. I am going to order a bottle of roti-rich to see if I have any success. I may also try the v-8 method, we'll see what happens. Thanks for the offer of the phyto, if noone else has dibs on it I will gladly take it. In trade you can have the second surviving baby, the first is for me!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelg January 16, 2003 Share January 16, 2003 Do you have Moe's book "breeding the orchid dottyback"? You can borrow my copy if you want. I have roti-rich and can give you 1/2 of the bottle. I'll gladly take one of the babies if you make it through the run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scott324 January 16, 2003 Share January 16, 2003 I have both Moe's and Wilkerson's books. I have read them both a couple times. That is the reason I though I may have some success raising the dottybacks. If he can raise a couple hundred I should be able to get 10 or so :D :D I just ordered some of the roti-rich and a rotifer screen (filter) along with some more phyto fertilizer, so I should be set, but thanks for the offer. Have you heard or had any experience with the roti-rich. There seems to be a couple products out there for feeding rotifers. Hopefully they are as nutritious as phyto, as that seems to be the major concern with such small larvae. There is another product called instant algae that I may try in the future. Hopefully my pair will continue to breed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelg January 16, 2003 Share January 16, 2003 Contact Bob (bcjm)- he uses it from what I remember before the board crashed and we lost that information. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gatortailale January 17, 2003 Share January 17, 2003 I will buy a few(2) off of you if you have success. Please put me on a list I think it is awesome that you are giving it a try to raise them. Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scott324 January 17, 2003 Share January 17, 2003 Craig, OK, they are scheduled to hatch sunday night, when do you want to meet to get 2 :D :D :D Seriously, I hope I do have success, the owner of Inland Aquatics wasn't very reassurring, but maybe he is trying to protect his investment. Only time will tell. You're on the list! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgasmd January 17, 2003 Share January 17, 2003 Hey, sign me in for a couple of them as well. Can I come by monday night and hand pick mine from the lot?? :D :D :D Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gatortailale January 17, 2003 Share January 17, 2003 If you need to get them out asap then if they ready for the meeting, I'll take them then. I was operating under the impression that you would try to raise them a few weeks to a month to improve their chance of survival. We can talk more at meeting :] Craig Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scott324 January 17, 2003 Share January 17, 2003 HAHAHA I was just joking guys, Pseudochromis have an extremely long, or at least compared to clowns, larval stage, about 28 days. Until then I expect a large loss. If I get 10 or so (out of 300) through I will be extremely happy. Once they go through metamorphasis I will probably try to grow them out for a month or 2 to ensure they are healthy. Although if anyone wants to try and raise some they are welcome to come by and get some larvae. You'll need rotifers because they are small, 2-3mm. I will keep everyone updated on my progress. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelg January 17, 2003 Share January 17, 2003 Man- if only all fish were as easy as bangai's. I have a question for you though- what are the characteristics of the male and female? Are they easy to tell apart (other than behavior). Are they in a tank with other fish at the moment? Tolerance? I would suspect they would be mean as h*ll to other fish..... Thus, people may need to take consideration in this.... Scott- You have all our confidence that you can pull it off... I've almost finished my copy of Moe's book- it is written journal style, with his daily ramblings/entry's. I can loan it out if people are more interested in what Scott is up against. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scott324 January 17, 2003 Share January 17, 2003 Michael, These fish are very peaceful, not aggressive. That seems to be a common misconception given to Orchid dottybacks. They are by-far the most docile of the species, unlike the others. I have them in a 75 g tank with: 2 fire shrimp 1 purple tang 1 kole tang 1 coral beauty 1 Chromis 1 brittle star The tangs initially chased them, this is why the breeding came as such a surprise and because I have only had them since Jan 8, but now everyone gets along fine. If you have read the book, you probably know a bit about them, but for everyone else I will give a little run down. Most pseudochromis are like clowns, hermaphroditic(sp), but the jury seems to still be out on the Orchids. They are opposite clowns in size regards. The male is normally larger and dominant. I read that there were some differences in the anal fin, but that seems to be iffy as well. I cannot tell the difference, other than the female gets real real fat, unproportionally, when she is about to lay eggs. The male does a little courting behavior, leading and chaseing, until the female depsoits her eggs in his hole/den/whatever. After that the female is no longer part of the picture. The male actually guards the nest from the female, which will eat the eggs. The eggs hatch on the 5th day after the lights go out and then take 22-30 days to reach juvenilles. This is the biggest obstacle in raising them, because they are the most fragile at this stage. The male is very picky about his den, I think this is why I don't see much aggression towards the other fish. They pick at the rocks around his hole and he seems to know they cannot fit or get to the eggs. Although I did see him peck at the brittle star which got a little close. FWIW, I got these fish from Inland Aquatics, they were very helpful, but very expensive too (100 for the pair). They told me these fish had been breeding in their system for a while, but they don't raise them because of the difficulty involved. These came from ORA. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dgasmd January 18, 2003 Share January 18, 2003 Scott: I was wondering if you have any pictures. Any pair of fish costing $100 I ahve to see. Also, I am forwarding this message to the tang patrol so they can come and do a cavity search on you for having 2 tangs in a tank less than 1 million gallon with a 6 trillion gayillion gallon sump :D :D Shame on you man :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scott324 January 18, 2003 Share January 18, 2003 Alberto, Are you asking for pics of my fish or just the fish in general. I am sure there are lots out there on the web if you just want to see what one looks like or else you will have to wait till I can take a pic. They usually go for around 35 dollars in the LFS (Roozens) and higher online (40 from Petwharehouse), so the 100 for a mated pair is a pretty good deal. As for the tang police, I was waiting for someone to catch that, I always laugh at those people that think it's ok to put one in a 6ft tank and not a 4 when compared to their natural habitat, the extra 2 feet is nothing. Mine seem very happy, and I think that is the best we can do. Plus they are not all that big, so I should be safe. One fortunate thing is that I live on a military installation gaurded by men with guns, so let'em come. :p :p :p Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelg January 23, 2003 Share January 23, 2003 Any news yet? How big was the egg mass? Are you going to get some hatchlings? What's the idea behind your clearing out some corals? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scott324 January 23, 2003 Share January 23, 2003 Sorry, Forgot about this thread. The eggs hatched Sunday night. I estimate about 300-400 fry. I collected about 200+ and gave half to Bob (BCJM, or some combination, sorry Bob, always get it mixed up) so he could try and raise them too. I have lost about 20-30% so far. I have about 75 fry left or so. I was unprepared for this hatch, so I am trying different methods of feeding. I don't have enough rotifers to feed them so I am feeding very little and trying to supplement with other things, prawn eggs, golden pearls, flake, etc while my rotifer population grows. The male and femal already have another batch of eggs. I am going to devote more of my resources to this new batch in hopes that I can get them through. This way, my phtyo and rotifer populations should be strong by the time they hatch. Hopefully Bob has more luck on the first batch than me. I am still looking for rotifers if anyone out there is culturing them. Plus extra green water would be nice. Bob has been very nice in giving me some, but I don't want to deplete his supply and cause both of us to lose the fry. I'll keep everyone updated. scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coral Hind February 3, 2003 Share February 3, 2003 Scott-How are the fry doing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcjm February 4, 2003 Share February 4, 2003 I am raising the fry from Scott. He is trying to get his rotifers culture going first. The first batch failed completely. I started with about 100 fry. The first 5 days seem OK. More dead between day 6-10. All died after the 10th day. These Dottybacks take longer time to metamorphose than clownfish. I think they are not big enough to eat BBR until day 13-15. So the food quality is really a problem. I am working on the second batch. Today is day 3. Hopefully I will have better luck this time. I have successfully raised Tomato, percula and gold stripe maroon so far. Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelg February 4, 2003 Share February 4, 2003 Bob- get your hands on a copy of Moe's book. I know you are looking for it, but if someone near you has it- borrow it immediately. I will be over in VA this saturday and can drop off my copy if you need it. Some key points- the fry need a high quality food within the first 6 hrs of hatching. Moe seemed to feel the extra vitamins in V8 juice worked well for culturing the rotifers. These fish take a lot longer to undergo metamorphosis occuring after 3 weeks- though again the first couple days/hours appear to be the critical window for sucessful rearing. He did start adding baby brine after day 5 I believe (perhaps it is more inline with what you state and it was around day 14), but he continued with the rotifers as well. ODB eggs should not be taken away from the male before hatching- he does the best job at keeping them Unfortunately the book does not read like a cookbook, such as wilkerson's. It is written journal style. I will look at the end of the book to see if it is abbreviated. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcjm February 4, 2003 Share February 4, 2003 Thanks Michael. I ordered the book yesterday. Should be here in a day or two. I used the BBR on day 7 for the first batch. I saw some fry tried to eat them numerious times with no luck. BBR is just too big for their mouths on day 7. One did managed to eat a few on day 9 but dead the next day. Percula fry seems to be the easiest so far. I had no luck with banggai so far. I can't even keep the adults alive for some reasons. Anyone got a pair to sell? Bob Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michaelg February 4, 2003 Share February 4, 2003 Unfortunately, I have lost both of my bangaiis. The male was lost first- I think he starved while carrying eggs. The female went over the overflow a couple weeks ago and was trapped against the screen for some amount of time. She was still alive when I put her back in the tank, but did not make it. I think the biggest problem I faced with then was lack of growth. Pez has the other pair from the ones I reared and when I saw them last they were a lot larger than mine. I don't think it was diet, as mine ate well, and I feed lots- but rather the tank size. I think mine were just too confined in the 30 gallon heavily stocked tank. I will rear some more again after the new tank is up and going. I will do it in a 5 gallon tank with 5 again. This worked real well for pairing up last time. Bob, if you don't have a pair by then, you can have the other pair (chances are there will be 2 pairs). Bangaiis should be a lot easier than perculas! You don't have to deal with larval stage feeding. Michael Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bcjm February 4, 2003 Share February 4, 2003 I am working on the cleaner shrimp which probably is the most challenging task. Can't tell you how pretty they are at day 8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Kimo February 11, 2003 Share February 11, 2003 Bob, How are the larvae doing? Do you have a digital camera? Think you could take some pics for the gallery? BTW the 180 is up and coming!! :D Jamie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scott324 February 11, 2003 Share February 11, 2003 Well, I guess I should keep up on this thread. I forgot all about it again. I have about 12 11-day-old larvae from the third batch, also the batch that I gave 99% to Bob. They are doing very well. I do not feed rotifers that much because I have about 300 fry from the last (fourth) hatch. Instead I set the tank up shortly after the first hatch and seeded it with what I thought were rotifers, but instead were small copapods or other (larger than rotifers) small critters. The tank ran for about 2 weeks before adding the fry so the population had lots of time to get strong, these things are all over the walls. ANyway, the fry have about doubled in length and are picking the bugs off the walls constantly. I tried to feed BBS which were about the same size, but the fry seemed uninterested. I think it is much easier to raise the fry in small batches, that way more food is available and less waste is produced. The 4th batch of fry is also doing well, I havn't lost many and they are feeding very well on rotifers. They are setup in a 10 gallon tank. THey are now 6 days old. We shall see how they fair in such large numbers. The adult pair are VERY prolific. The female is now ready to depsoit eggs the day after the previous batch hatch. They have the largest eggball yet right now that should hatch tomorrow or Thursday. Bob, or anyone else set up to raise them are welcome to some or most of the fry. I don't want to waste them if someone can give it a shot. I have room for one more hatch and then (as long as some are surviving) I will be letting it go as fish food, which happens anyway because I can't seem to get all the larvae out of the tank. The only problem is, you need to come pick them up the night of the hatch or morning after :D I will continue to update as things progress. Bob, How old were the first set of babies I gave you when they all died? Scott Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now