patriotm December 31, 2008 Share December 31, 2008 (edited) Well, it appears I have an Ich infestation on both of my tanks (55 G and 72 G). The good news is that all the fish appear to be healthy and eating well still. So, the following is my plan of attack and I am looking for any feedback or advice so that I don't make any major mistakes along the way. Bad news, it appears to be moving fast on the larger fish and spreading as well. last 24 hours I have seen noticeable changes for the worse. Thanks to modelrr (Timothy), I was able to buy and setup a new 14 G quarantine/hospital tank tonight. Quarantine Tank Initial Setup 14 Gallon CPR with back sump CPR protein skimmer with Rio 600 Rio 600 for tank circulation Removing all the Bio Balls and sponge filters 1 small piece of live rock from existing tank with no visible corals 50% fresh new RO/DI saltwater (1.026 salinity) 50% saltwater from existing tank (1.026 salinity) I am hoping a 24 hour seed period will suffice and will test to verify. Damsels will go in first and may be sacrificed if I have a unplanned spike. Although they all don't appear to have the Ich symptoms, I plan to treat all my fish over the next 4-6 weeks in the quarantine tank. 2 mature large Maroon Clowns mated pair 1 small false percula 1 firefish 1 lemon peal angel 1 small bicolor angel 1 small goby 1 small clarky clown 2 med size black clowns 4 small damsels Plan of attack Dec 30th - Setup quarantine tank Dec 31st Test quarantine tank for Ni, Na, pH levels. Catch and transfer Damsels to Quarantine Tank. Decided to change my plan and modify my 55 G tank to use as a 2nd Quarantine Tank since the 14G is too small for all the fish. Have relocated all the corals, snails and crabs to the 72 G tank and also some live rock. Will leave the fish and rock in the 55 G tank and begin the Ich Treatment. QUESTION: What will the impact be of treating the fish with the live rock? What is the best approach to re-establishing a reef in my 55 G after about 6 weeks? Jan 1st Test quarantine tank for Ni, Na, pH levels. Monitor Damsels and if they are doing well, move forward with treating the other remaining fish. Complete a 2 stage dip treatment using wardley ick out sensitive (Formaldehyde 5.55%) 5 min, and a 15/85% saltwater/freshwater dip 5-10 min. Transfer fish to quarantine. Compete a 30% water change. Jan 2nd - Jan 12th Monitor fish daily. Treat with wardley ick out sensitive every two days 1 tsp (5 treatments). Complete daily 20% water changes, while slowly dropping salinity levels from 1.026 to 1.019. Jan 12th - Feb 12th Monitor fish daily Complete 20% water changes every other day, while slowly raising salinity levels back to 1.026. I am hoping the regular water changes will allow me to keep this many fish alive in such a small tank. Feb 12th Re-introduce all remaining fish that survived back into the main tanks. All comments, suggestions are welcome and appreciated. Edited December 31, 2008 by patriotm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason the filter freak December 31, 2008 Share December 31, 2008 ii see two problems but maybe i'm missing something... first you have 3 different types of clowns but only two different tanks, are they fighting perhaps that fighting is causing stress that is perpetuating ich. Secondly if you try some fish in the QT then put them back to treat others they may just become reinfected, if you are going to try treating them all at once on the other hand i think thats too many fish for such a small tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patriotm December 31, 2008 Author Share December 31, 2008 Thanks for the reply Jason. There are actually four different clowns, two types in each tank . With that said, I have a lot of live rock (hiding places) and haven't seen any fighting between the different clowns. The clowns seem to hang out on different ends of the tanks and avoid each other. But, your point is valid and could be a major contributing factor to stress that I missed. Unfortunately, I may have mis-judged the size of quarantine tank with the number of fish I have to treat. I was hoping to get them all in the quarantine tank at the same time so that I don't introduce the disease again. I had planned to do water changes at least every other day to manage the levels in the quarantine tank. My other options would be to get a bigger tank, or convert my 55 G to a quarantine tank, which would require moving most of the live rock to my 72 gallon to make sure I remove all the inverts and corals alike. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rioreef December 31, 2008 Share December 31, 2008 Scott, Always good to see a new member from Ashburn on the boards. If you have not yet, go to Fins and Feathers in the Broadlands Shopping Center and talk to Sean to see if he can help. On you second tank, I see you have power compacts with clams listed in it. I have done a clam with PC's but they must be high up in the rock work and it can be a slow death. With your other tank having the MH, I would move them there to ensure good health. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Lazar December 31, 2008 Share December 31, 2008 Scott, Lowering the salinity to 1.0190 and doing freshwater dips won't affect the ich. Ich is only susceptible to salinity of 16ppt (1.0120) or lower, and is well protected when it's inside your fish. Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sharkey18 December 31, 2008 Share December 31, 2008 I just lost all my fish to ick so I really sorry to hear about yours. A couple of issues: You had better move faster. Even though the fish are eating, IME, they can eat in the morning and be dead by night. Also keep in mind how long you need to keep the fish out of the display tanks. If you add them back too fast you will still have ick parasites in the main tanks and the fish will get re-infected. I was told 30 days in QT tank. Good luck, sounds like your in a tough spot. You can check out the "all fish dead" thread in the beginners forum. I got a lot of great advice. Laura Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lunker December 31, 2008 Share December 31, 2008 Scott, I found the following from Reef Central very informative as I'm just finishing the process of quarantining both my fish (hypo-salinity in a seperate QT)) and having a vacant DT for seven week weeks other than invertebrates. My fish have been reintroduced into the DT a week ago and are doing fine. PM me if you have any questions. Part 1: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-08/sp/index.php Part 2: http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-10/sp/feature/index.php The above links will give you the choices, including the pros and cons, on how to rid yourself of ich. Good Luck Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patriotm December 31, 2008 Author Share December 31, 2008 Scott, Always good to see a new member from Ashburn on the boards. If you have not yet, go to Fins and Feathers in the Broadlands Shopping Center and talk to Sean to see if he can help. On you second tank, I see you have power compacts with clams listed in it. I have done a clam with PC's but they must be high up in the rock work and it can be a slow death. With your other tank having the MH, I would move them there to ensure good health. Thanks rioreef, I need to update my signature, I started out with a clam under the PC, but moved him to the MH tank about 3 weeks ago. He was doing really good, but read about the slow death, so decided to move him to a happier place. Thanks for the info. I will try to see if Sean can help as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patriotm December 31, 2008 Author Share December 31, 2008 Scott, Lowering the salinity to 1.0190 and doing freshwater dips won't affect the ich. Ich is only susceptible to salinity of 16ppt (1.0120) or lower, and is well protected when it's inside your fish. Jon Thanks Jon. So, are you recommending no fresh water dip (10-15 min) even if the freshwater is way below 16ppt (1.0120)? I read that a 15/85 saltwater/freshwater dip for 10-15 min is good to kill off a lot of the ich parasites for the initial treatment. Taking your advice, it sounds like dropping the salinity over the next few weeks is not worth the trouble and stress to the fish. I don't think I want to go that low. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jason the filter freak December 31, 2008 Share December 31, 2008 thought, can you switch all the corals into one of your tanks and flip all fish into the other probably the 72 and drop the salinity of the whole tank down it shouldn't affect live rock too much. then flip the pair of clowns in the QT tank, and if you have a sump on the 72 you can flip a clown into there too to keep them all seperated. lastly since your 55 would now have only coral, if you use the 72 to treat for the proper amount of time, the ich not having any fish host in your 55 just coral should die off. Hope this is a good solution Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Amuze December 31, 2008 Share December 31, 2008 Why is there sand in the QT? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patriotm December 31, 2008 Author Share December 31, 2008 Why is there sand in the QT? No sand in the QT tank now, I was going to have some sand until I did some more research and discovered it was a bad idea. The thought was to help cycle the QT tank and stabilize it better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patriotm December 31, 2008 Author Share December 31, 2008 thought, can you switch all the corals into one of your tanks and flip all fish into the other probably the 72 and drop the salinity of the whole tank down it shouldn't affect live rock too much. then flip the pair of clowns in the QT tank, and if you have a sump on the 72 you can flip a clown into there too to keep them all seperated. lastly since your 55 would now have only coral, if you use the 72 to treat for the proper amount of time, the ich not having any fish host in your 55 just coral should die off. Hope this is a good solution This is a good idea and kind of where I am headed. I have taken all the corals and inverts out of the 55 G and transfered them to the 72 G, leaving only fish and rock. I have transfered my large maroon clown to the 14 G QT tank and started treatment. She is the worst and showed signs the earliest. If I can catch all the fish in the 72 G and transfer them to the 55 G, for a low salinity treatment, that is step 2. I may have to just keep working at the transfer for the next few days. Thanks for all the great advice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patriotm January 1, 2009 Author Share January 1, 2009 thought, can you switch all the corals into one of your tanks and flip all fish into the other probably the 72 and drop the salinity of the whole tank down it shouldn't affect live rock too much. then flip the pair of clowns in the QT tank, and if you have a sump on the 72 you can flip a clown into there too to keep them all seperated. lastly since your 55 would now have only coral, if you use the 72 to treat for the proper amount of time, the ich not having any fish host in your 55 just coral should die off. Hope this is a good solution Jason or anyone else, How quickly and how long should I drop my salinity from 1.0260 to 1.0120 to address my ick problem? Also note, this will be in a 55 G tank with live rock and sand. I removed all the inverts and corals to my other tank. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kholla12 January 1, 2009 Share January 1, 2009 Here read this http://www.saltwaterfish.com/vb/showthread.php?t=127007 .It help me alot im doing hypo right now.You can not keep and live rock or sand in the Qt.Lower the SGL to 1.009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
octopus January 2, 2009 Share January 2, 2009 Start feeding with garlic extreme. All my fish had ick and I started feeding with garlic daily, I only had 1 fish die and all of them are healthy now. Im not saying its a cure but suprisingly it worked for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
F&Fmgr January 2, 2009 Share January 2, 2009 I know alot of reefers don't like chemical approaches....don't know if it's an experience thing or comfort issue, but if u do a bare bottom with hang on filter or sponge filter then i can reccomend a couple of things. Call me at the store or PM me if you'd like help. Also you dont have to use copper. There are alternatives. On the freshwater dip, it takes longer to kill ich in freshwater than it would the fish. FW dip is only effective against larva that have NOT dug into the epithelium. Its really effective against Ich when compared to long term hypo or a chemiical treatment. Hope that helps.... Sean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmubeach January 3, 2009 Share January 3, 2009 Ich ich ich... while I've never had ich I learned the hard way about the multiple clownfish I "Killed" a wonderful male black occelarous... anyway I run uv strilizer into my return pump and infront of my chiller on the my smaller 24 g tank so far I've only had ich once the uv sterilzer kills it in the free swimming stage so no free swimming however it won't kill the ich thats on the fish I've learned that if you feed them good they don't get sick... anyway I hope you can beat it some ppl on this forum have lost all there fish anyway hope your doing well...Troy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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