do you really feel safe?

[treesprite]

How confident really are people with putting a fish in the tank after it has been "cured" from ich?

 

I got a small yellow tang Friday, and early this morning noticed ich spots on its fins. Hopefully it will get better and be fine, but I'm afraid I'll not want to ever put it in my tank. I gave it a freshwater dip for 5 minutes and it's in a 10g QT with UV and water w/ sg of 1.012. My questions are whether or not 1.012 is too high, what sg would be too low, and how frequently I can or should (?) do fw dips during the time that I still see spots?

[zygote2k]

If your fish is in QT, why not adjust the salinity to the display salinity? A freshwater dip killed most everything, the UV should take care or the rest. I'd keep it in there for at least a week for observation, then put him in the main display. To give it the best acclimation possible, use display water in QT system.

[ctenophore]

http://atj.net.au/marineaquaria/marineich.html

 

From the article:

"Are freshwater dips effective?

 

Freshwater dips are generally ineffective in the treatment of marine "Ich" infestations. Trophonts burrow deeply into the epithelium where they are generally protected from external influences. Colorni (1985) found that even after 18 hours in freshwater, infected fish still have trophonts attached in the same positions as they had held before the freshwater treatment. The trophonts later detached and completed their life cycle as normal.

 

Trophonts penetrate the epithelium which causes a loss in osmoregulatory capability. Infected fish are less able to cope with a sudden and drastic change in the ionic concentration of their environment. This is likely to cause further stress to the fish which will impair their ability to acquire immunity to the parasite.

 

Does a specific gravity of 1.017 prevent outbreaks?

 

A specific gravity of 1.017 is not effective in controlling outbreaks of marine "Ich" as has been claimed by some authors (e.g. Delbeek and Sprung, 1994). Colorni (1985) found that tomonts could survive at salinities as low as 15 ppt (specific gravity ~1.011 d20/20). Further, a specific gravity of 1.017 is far too low for most invertebrates and the long term effect on fish is unknown. "

[YBeNormal]

Hypo salinity is 1.008 and even that may not entirely kill off the Ich. Regardless, the life cycle of Ich is about two weeks, more or less depending on temperature and other variables. I would keep the fish in QT for at least 4 weeks, preferably 6 weeks, after the last spots have disappeared. Make sure your refractometer is properly calibrated if you are going to attempt treatment with hpyo salinity. To high and the treatment may not be effective, too low and it can be damaging or fatal to the fish.

 

Z, a freshwater dip will not kill spores that are in the tomont stage of development, and may be less than fully successful against spores that are in the trophant stage. It is only during the tomite stage that hpyo salinity and other treatments are truly effective and spores do not transition from stage to stage all at once. A one week treatment followed by introduction of the fish to the display tank is a sure way to transfer the problem to the display.

 

FW dips are not necessarily a bad thing to do but keep in mind that this will stress the fish and may actually weaken it to the point that it cannot fight off the infection. Do some research on Google or look on RC for the Ich thread that is posted there. Educate yourself and then decide how you want to treat the fish.

[Jon Lazar]

Treesprite,

 

Good to see you caught the problem in quarantine before you added to your DT. Once you get ich in the DT, it's much more difficult to eliminate.

 

When you see the white ich spots, that's when the parasites have finished feeding and growing inside the tissue of your fish, and they are burrowing back to the surface to escape. The parasites then drop off the fish and into the water, where they attach to the substrate and grow their eggs to start another cycle. It's only in this stage, attached to the aquarium substrate, that they become vulnerable to hyposalinity.

 

UV will kill the free-swimming stage, but there's a narrow window when the parasite is vulnerable. After hatching ich normally finds it's host and burrows in within 6-8 hours. So you need high enough flow through the UV to irradiate all the tank water, but slow enough flow to gain long exposure time and kill the parasites.

 

I keep my hyposalinity between 15-12 ppt, which works out to 1.0115-1.0090. I keep new arrivals in hyposalinity for 45 days, but 30 days can be long enough. The biggest danger is keeping ammonia and nitrite low enough during this time.

 

Jon

 

 

How confident really are people with putting a fish in the tank after it has been "cured" from ich?

 

I got a small yellow tang Friday, and early this morning noticed ich spots on its fins. Hopefully it will get better and be fine, but I'm afraid I'll not want to ever put it in my tank. I gave it a freshwater dip for 5 minutes and it's in a 10g QT with UV and water w/ sg of 1.012. My questions are whether or not 1.012 is too high, what sg would be too low, and how frequently I can or should (?) do fw dips during the time that I still see spots?

[Smoothtriqueter]

look on RC for the Ich thread that is posted there. Educate yourself and then decide how you want to treat the fish.

 

 

Anyone have this link I would like to read?

[zygote2k]

I stand corrected. Disregard previous post.

[traveller7]

Marine Ich:

http://atj.net.au/marineaquaria/marineich.html

 

Hypo procedure:

http://atj.net.au/marineaquaria/hyposalinity.html

[F&Fmgr]

Quinine Sulfate or heavy copper sulfate ALWAYS do the job for me

[YBeNormal]

I agree but those methods of treatment also require that the person read up and understand what they are doing. Otherwise the cure can be worse than the disease.

[F&Fmgr]

I agree but those methods of treatment also require that the person read up and understand what they are doing. Otherwise the cure can be worse than the disease.

 

Agreed, however quinine sulfate, albeit expensive, is very gentle to the fish.

[quazi]

While copper is tough on your fish and tank, it works well. Just change the water afterward (you should with a QT anyway) and use polyfilter to get/keep all the copper out of the QT tank.

[YBeNormal]

Agreed, however quinine sulfate, albeit expensive, is very gentle to the fish.

 

I've never tried that product. Is it something that needs to be purchased fresh or does it store well for long periods of time?

[treesprite]

Thanks for the information.

 

The last time I used copper was many years ago and now I see scary information on teh internet which I did not have in the past. I have a bottle of Cuprex "copper sulfate with chelation" here, but I think the directions are "off" a bit. The bottle says to keep the copper concentration at 0.10 to 0.15 PPM for 4 days - has anyone used this particular product who could tell me how she or he used it? Does copper lower Ph?

 

Do you think putting eggcrate across the bottom of the QT raised a few inches would help keep the fish from getting re-infected while resting in the dark?

Edited December 1, 2008 by treesprite

[FishWife]

Hey there...

 

We had ich badly last Christmas... 'member the "bathtub conversion"? It was awful!

 

Anyways, we left the fish in hypo for four weeks by the calendar, and the live rock etc. for five. Our CBB had also a fungus infection and was in hypo and isolation for about 2.5 months! Then we assembled the DT and put all those formerly ichy rocks and fish into it. Never had the problem again. I do think that you can feel OK about putting fish that recover from illnesses in your healthy display tank. My feeling is that if you have a healthy reef operating, and there are no signs of disease, then the fish's bodies have done what God intended: healed. A healed fish is as healthy as any other fish. KWIM?

[treesprite]

Hey there...

 

We had ich badly last Christmas... 'member the "bathtub conversion"? It was awful!

 

Anyways, we left the fish in hypo for four weeks by the calendar, and the live rock etc. for five. Our CBB had also a fungus infection and was in hypo and isolation for about 2.5 months! Then we assembled the DT and put all those formerly ichy rocks and fish into it. Never had the problem again. I do think that you can feel OK about putting fish that recover from illnesses in your healthy display tank. My feeling is that if you have a healthy reef operating, and there are no signs of disease, then the fish's bodies have done what God intended: healed. A healed fish is as healthy as any other fish. KWIM?

I do remember that ordeal of yours, and saw it too! Your post is comforting, thanks

 

Are there other people here who have had problems with Friday's fish purchases?

[DJBoy98]

2 missing Hippos and a fire shrimp within 48 hours. Hippos had tons of ick within 24hrs.

[Smoothtriqueter]

got a hippo sailfin and sixline with a few spots on all. All are eating well and the spots are almost gone. Sixline has none and the hippo still has a few but all seem to be doing quite well.

[Jon Lazar]

No.

 

When the ich cysts hatch, they swim around in the water until they find a host.

 

 

Do you think putting eggcrate across the bottom of the QT raised a few inches would help keep the fish from getting re-infected while resting in the dark?

[CHUBAKAH]

I got a small yellow tang Friday, and early this morning noticed ich spots on its fins.

Where did you purchase it?

[MisterTang]

I got a small yellow tang Friday, and early this morning noticed ich spots on its fins. Hopefully it will get better and be fine, but I'm afraid I'll not want to ever put it in my tank.

 

This kinda goes with the discussion on here last week about whether or not people QT - thankfully, you do, but it sounds like whoever had this tang before you did not.

[flowerseller]

Where did you purchase it?

 

This kinda goes with the discussion on here last week about whether or not people QT - thankfully, you do, but it sounds like whoever had this tang before you did not.

 

I don't think that's got much to do with it at all.

After QT/ob and then vacationing for 4 months, I have taken a very healthy Purple Tang from my FT and put it in my DT.

It showed signs of white spot the next day. It was cleared up and gone with in a week and no other residents of the DT showed any signs.

BTW, my FT and DT are on the same sump system.

[treesprite]

I got the fish from a shop. Some of the fish didn't too great there and I probably should have gone with the "second thoughts" I had while I was there.

 

I would like to know about how high up in the water column the swimming ones go. What I had been thinking regarding the eggcrate was that the fish rest on teh bottom in the dark while the cysts hatch in the dark - perfect for the parasite, much worse for the fish than if the fish weren't right there waiting for it to hop on. If teh fish would be further from the nest, it would maybe not get as much on it so the infection would not be as severe.

 

I am more and more tempted to get rid of the fish. It isn't any worse and is active, but it isn't eating. It acts like a hungry fish when I put food in, but isn't actually eating any of it. I ended up putting Zooplex in the water yesterday which it can't avoid ingesting... better than no food at all.