making a DSB efficient

[treesprite]

I have a few of the very small nassarius snails in mine.

 

Does it not also have to do with area? Surely A 5" DSB covering a large area is a lot more anaerobic area than a 8" DSB in a bucket. I just don't see how 5" can't be adequate when it worked in my nano.

 

Anthony Calfo is coming to our December meeting - maybe instead of going by articles that seem to conflict as to what he says, we could ask him in person. I believe there are people here who know just as much about it here though, it's just a matter of sorting out opinions.

 

Does anyone have enough spare equipment to do an experiment?

[lhcorals]

The test kits used to measure phosphates down in the range of 0.02 are fairly expensive. I have used the API, which will let you know if your levels are quite high, but are worthless down at the lower levels. I use the Salifert & it is ok, as long as you get readings of zero.

 

The best: Photometers are pricey @ over $200.00. I use the Hach PO4-19, which will run you about $90.00 including shipping. The refills are only about $20.00/100 tests.

 

I still think that judging your phosphates by the amount of scrapping of algae on your glass is the best test kit. If you have to clean your glass more than once per week, then your phosphates are too high. Using this method with the Salifert Kit works great and is the most economical approach.

 

If the phosphates get too high then you need to cut back on your feeding. If that does not work, then you have to adjust your GFO: add more flow or more GFO or replace it. If they get too low (no scrapping for more than 1.5 weeks), then you need the reverse. The GFO reactor is great for this fine tuning.

 

Had my water tested today with Photometer( a good one) and no Phosphates.

[lhcorals]

I agree with Highland Reefer, it sounds like carbon.

 

Far be it from me to suggest that a manufacturer might actually lie in order to sell a product

 

Although meaningless phrases like "specifically designed for aqueous phase filtration" might be a tip-off!

 

-R

 

 

 

So i guess that goes for everything we put in our tanks. How did you choose the products you use? How do you know your products do what they say? I know i'm happy with the results i get , My tank ,corals and fish are healthy. What else can we ask for?

[lancer99]

I base the things I add to my tank on chemistry, the advice of reefers who have much more experience than me, and what works in my experience.

 

I don't think anyone would argue with the value of Ca/Alk/Mg supplements, top-offs with RO/DI water, or water changes.

 

What I don't rely on is claims from manufacturers, especially when they're trying to pull to wool over the eyes of less-experienced reef keepers, and moreso when they throw out a bunch of meaningless jargon like "aqueous phase filtration."

 

-R

Edited November 11, 2008 by lancer99

[lanman]

I have a few of the very small nassarius snails in mine.

 

Does it not also have to do with area? Surely A 5" DSB covering a large area is a lot more anaerobic area than a 8" DSB in a bucket. I just don't see how 5" can't be adequate when it worked in my nano.

 

Anthony Calfo is coming to our December meeting - maybe instead of going by articles that seem to conflict as to what he says, we could ask him in person. I believe there are people here who know just as much about it here though, it's just a matter of sorting out opinions.

 

Does anyone have enough spare equipment to do an experiment?

 

It is one heck of a read (I'm only through the first 15 pages) - but I did see one clue in the thread about remote deep sand beds. Someone asked if he should go for a trash can, or a 55-gallon aquarium, and Mr. Calfo said he would choose the 55-gallon aquarium. Go for length, not depth. Nonetheless - it seems like DEEP sand is by far the best. I am trying to find some sand for a reasonable price, and will try it myself.

 

bob

[Highland Reefer]

 

Had my water tested today with Photometer( a good one) and no Phosphates.

 

 

 

When you clean your glass, I am assuming that you mean you are cleaning a green film off the glass and not a clearer type of film with no green color or a brown film due to diatoms.

 

There are always phosphates in your system as long as you are feeding your fish. Otherwise, everything would die. The goal would be to have the levels low enough to prevent the microalgae from becoming a problem. Having a zero reading for phosphates is a good sign, but does not mean that you do not have phosphates. None of these meters or kits are that accurate at the levels we are talking about. Some of the forms of phosphate are not detected by the photometers. This is why I use the Hach PO-19 kit. There are many factors that can come into play as to why you are having this problem. An example would be if your rock and sand remained in a high phosphate environment for an extended period of time in the past. During this period the phosphates would become bound in your rock. Once the levels of phosphates are reduced in the water column below that of the rock, then the phosphates from the rock and sand would begin to leach into the water column. This would continue until they are equal to that of your water column. In other cases, the phosphates would be in a chemical form that would not be detected by your kit or photometer.

 

The bottom line, is to have enough GFO in your reactor & having enough water flow, but not too much flow to continually pull the phosphates out of your system. In your case, I would increase the amount of GFO used if you had a reactor.

Edited November 11, 2008 by Highland Reefer

[lhcorals]

When you clean your glass, I am assuming that you mean you are cleaning a green film off the glass and not a clearer type of film with no green color or a brown film due to diatoms.

 

There are always phosphates in your system as long as you are feeding your fish. Otherwise, everything would die. The goal would be to have the levels low enough to prevent the microalgae from becoming a problem. Having a zero reading for phosphates is a good sign, but does not mean that you do not have phosphates. None of these meters or kits are that accurate at the levels we are talking about. Some of the forms of phosphate are not detected by the photometers. This is why I use the Hach PO-19 kit. There are many factors that can come into play as to why you are having this problem. An example would be if your rock and sand remained in a high phosphate environment for an extended period of time in the past. During this period the phosphates would become bound in your rock. Once the levels of phosphates are reduced in the water column below that of the rock, then the phosphates from the rock and sand would begin to leach into the water column. This would continue until they are equal to that of your water column. In other cases, the phosphates would be in a chemical form that would not be detected by your kit or photometer.

 

The bottom line, is to have enough GFO in your reactor & having enough water flow, but not too much flow to continually pull the phosphates out of your system. In your case, I would increase the amount of GFO used if you had a reactor.

 

Ok so i should say undetectable with my test kit, i will agree with that. You are right when you said a green film.

 

I base the things I add to my tank on chemistry, the advice of reefers who have much more experience than me, and what works in my experience.

 

I don't think anyone would argue with the value of Ca/Alk/Mg supplements, top-offs with RO/DI water, or water changes.

 

What I don't rely on is claims from manufacturers, especially when they're trying to pull to wool over the eyes of less-experienced reef keepers, and moreso when they throw out a bunch of meaningless jargon like "aqueous phase filtration."

 

-R

 

 

To answer you, I'm going on the advise of a reefer who has been doing this for 20+ years. He could be selling me products that would cost me alot more. It's the same product he run's in his 1200 gal reef, he trust's the product and he has way more experience than me and probably alot of us. And so far it's working in my 265 gal. reef.

[lanman]

I have to clean my glass every two days and my Phosphate are 0.

 

What do you clean off your glass every two days? Is it kind of a light brownish yellow 'dust'?? If I don't clean mine every two days, I instantly get little spots of coralline algae on the third day, and I'm scraping on the 4th.

 

Mind you I KNOW I have nitrates and phosphates - so it could be most anything growing in there.

 

bob

[reefmontalvo]

I recently added a conch to my 75. It did more than the nassarius which only surface to feed when I place food in the tank. The conch will come out at night and feed on anything left over on the surface. Then when day light approaches it sinks back under the sand. SO in respect to the whole thread the snail is doing two things 1: It is eating anything left over from the day, food detritus, and etc. 2: By the animal surfacing and sinking it is actually helping turn the sand over. I also maintain about 1 1/2" sand bed. And when I do work on the fug I tend to grab any brittle stars and throw them in the main tank as well. I even adopted the practices of placing free roaming bristles in the fug into the main tank. I have noticed significant color brightness in my sand.

[sen5241b]

I recently added a conch to my 75. It did more than the nassarius which only surface to feed when I place food in the tank. The conch will come out at night and feed on anything left over on the surface. Then when day light approaches it sinks back under the sand. SO in respect to the whole thread the snail is doing two things 1: It is eating anything left over from the day, food detritus, and etc. 2: By the animal surfacing and sinking it is actually helping turn the sand over. I also maintain about 1 1/2" sand bed. And when I do work on the fug I tend to grab any brittle stars and throw them in the main tank as well. I even adopted the practices of placing free roaming bristles in the fug into the main tank. I have noticed significant color brightness in my sand.

 

 

What kind of conch? I have a small 1 inch conch that never digs under the sand.

[lhcorals]

What do you clean off your glass every two days? Is it kind of a light brownish yellow 'dust'?? If I don't clean mine every two days, I instantly get little spots of coralline algae on the third day, and I'm scraping on the 4th.

 

Mind you I KNOW I have nitrates and phosphates - so it could be most anything growing in there.

 

bob

 

 

It's just a light green film. Just like you if i dont clean it about every 2 day's i get spot's of coralline and have to scrape on the 3rd or 4th day. Most of the time i just run the magnet over everyday.

[reefmontalvo]

What kind of conch? I have a small 1 inch conch that never digs under the sand.

 

I think it's a fighting conch. Marine Scene had them there and they were in seperate tanks.

[Vader]

Great links, I'm going to start my tank off with a 5 gal. bucket full of sand and flow water though it.