Must ALL Fish Be Removed to Eradicate Ich

[Kengar]

Despite have QT set up and running, once again I've jumped gun and introduced fish with ich into display. Soo, once again, I'm in ich eradication mode. (How many times do we have to make the same mistake????)

 

What I'm wondering is whether absolutely every fish must be removed, or whether some fish are impervious. In particular, I've got a number of small and/or fast fish that would be exceedingly difficult to catch without breaking down the reef. The ones I'm wondering whether they are ich impervious are the following:

 

mandarin dragonette

yashia goby

engineer goby

rainford goby

flaming prawn goby

 

If I removed all others (for six weeks) and left those fish in place and they did not exhibit clear signs of ich, is it possible that they could be carring it without showing, in which case I would not have achieved the goal? Or are those fish ich-resistant, such that if they don't exhibit after six weeks of the system being free of all other fish, I could assume the ich has died off?

 

Thanks for input.

[flowerseller]

Do you use UV?

If not, get a high powered unit while you're fixing this problem.

Many of us really like CurrentUSA gamma units.

[Brian Ward]

Despite have QT set up and running, once again I've jumped gun and introduced fish with ich into display. Soo, once again, I'm in ich eradication mode. (How many times do we have to make the same mistake????)

 

What I'm wondering is whether absolutely every fish must be removed, or whether some fish are impervious. In particular, I've got a number of small and/or fast fish that would be exceedingly difficult to catch without breaking down the reef. The ones I'm wondering whether they are ich impervious are the following:

 

mandarin dragonette

yashia goby

engineer goby

rainford goby

flaming prawn goby

 

If I removed all others (for six weeks) and left those fish in place and they did not exhibit clear signs of ich, is it possible that they could be carring it without showing, in which case I would not have achieved the goal? Or are those fish ich-resistant, such that if they don't exhibit after six weeks of the system being free of all other fish, I could assume the ich has died off?

 

Thanks for input.

 

 

 

You have to remove them all in order to eradicate ich. They can be carriers without exhibiting the outward signs. The only possible exception is the mandarin - these are not immune to ich, but nearly so. I'm not sure whether they can be carriers.

[jhn]

If I remember correctly the mandarin is more resistant to ich than most fish due to the heavier slime coat. Never heard anything about the gobies being resistant, unfortunately the only way to rid your system of it is by having it completely fishless. Otherwise, imo it is a pointless endeavor...I know it's a pita but I would get all the fish out.

[jamal]

dont remove the mandarin because there will be no food for it to eat during treatment but the rest should be removed since you have the means. i have fought ich a few times. i have only lost once but it was a big loss. i have never removed my fish though. i would need a very large container for that. i have noticed that for light infections the kick ich stuff works. a large uv helps

[Kengar]

I run UV and Ozone, but the limitation with those is that the organism must come into contact with the means. That is why I want to eradicate. (UV is sized to the amount of water that flows through it (1/3 of total return flow).) Perhaps I will pull as many as I can, and use kick ich for good measure on what is left. (I agree re mandy not having food source, which is why I would be reluctant to pull it.)

[flowerseller]

The mandarin will eat LBW and LBS.

Many fish live just fine on LBS and gluting them with selcon or nanochloris is better.

 

Why not do it right this time, remove all fish, treat them while allowing the tank to become clear for at least 6 weeks?

 

Wonder why both ozone and UV are not helping keep it at bay?

Many healthy tanks/fish can do fight ick off themselves and you have both.

What's the rated flow and mg of ozone per hour?

[Kengar]

The mandarin will eat LBW and LBS.

Many fish live just fine on LBS and gluting them with selcon or nanochloris is better.

 

Why not do it right this time, remove all fish, treat them while allowing the tank to become clear for at least 6 weeks?

 

Wonder why both ozone and UV are not helping keep it at bay?

Many healthy tanks/fish can do fight ick off themselves and you have both.

What's the rated flow and mg of ozone per hour?

 

 

Tank is a 156. Return pump is a Velocity T4. About 150 gph from return goes to main skimmer (Euroreef recirc; ER recommends one to 1.5 tank volume per hour through it) then back to sump; one half of remainder goes through UV before going to tank; other half of remainder goes straight to tank. UV is only 15 watt, because that is appropriate size for the amount of (guesstimated) flow that goes through it, per Aqua sizing chart.

 

Ozone is only 50 mg/hour unit. I have it set at about the midway point, so about 25/hour. I blow air through the ozonizer, and the air pump is set at about 2/3 full. Small airpump; don't know make/model/size. I have a CPR backpack-type skimmer (Odyssea) sitting in the sump that I use as ozone reactor. The powerhead that drives that skimmer is private brand, but comparable to a Maxijet 900 or 1200 I would guess. Ozonized air is blown into an intake nipple on the powserhead outlet, which supplies the skimmer. So, water that is ozonized is taken from sump and returned to the sump. I set the amount of ozone being generated based on smell -- if I don't smell excess ozone, I'm good -- and the amount of air based on as much as possible before I see excess air shooting out the powerhead intake.

 

Bottom line is that the UV and ozone are arranged so that neither really hits the whole system. In other words, total system flow does not go through either. They certainly don't hurt, but they are not the be-all end-all on my system for controlling pathogens. Hence my need for better control in the first place (i.e., PROPER and PATIENT quarantining).

Edited April 21, 2008 by Kengar

[flowerseller]

I would use at least 40w of UV. We used to use ozone to help burn off HA and clarify water, UV can too. Consider adding 40W more UV and develop a well executed w/c schedule. Once the twins come you'll have the w/c system down pat and continue to do it.

You won't be dissapointed.

[Highland Reefer]

I am a believer in UV. I believe it really works. I would put a wager that ich and other protozoans can not be removed from a system completely. They will always be lingering in the back ground waiting for a stressed victim. I have found that keeping the water conditions in good shape and properly feeding your fish will help them kick ich with the use of UV alone in most situations. If the protozoan populations get out of hand, then something else made need to be done. Just my two cents.

[jamesbuf]

I agree with Chip. You need at least a 40watt UV on that size tank. You're obviously killing anything that goes through your current UV unit, but you're just not getting enough of your water pushed through your unit to make a difference in the ENTIRE water column. My last ich outbreak (over 2 years ago, knock on wood) cost me about $350 worth of fish. I then dropped $300 on a 57watt UV sterilizer on sale at thatpetplace. Keep in mind that I had a 180gallon back then, which is why I bought such a large unit. I have yet to have another ich outbreak and I can't think of the last time I've seen even the smallest white spot on any of my fish. I will NEVER run a tank without an appropriate sized UV unit ever again.

 

With your taste for expensive fish, you'd do yourself a huge favor by upgrading your UV unit, especially with all the problems you've had to date. I would upgrade units and push your entire return through the UV sterilizer back into your tank, so everything returning to your tank is nice and sterilized. You can pump around 1100gph through the 57watt Aqua unit and still get the contact time to kill ich. I only run 900gph through mine just to make sure. I do believe that more is better when running UV. Don't let the naysayers tell you that this will affect your pod population, sterilize your tank, etc,. I've never had a problem with that and I don't know of anyone who ever has. Anyone who has seen my 92gal can vouch that everything is more than thriving, even with my oversized 57watt sterilizer on it.

 

Hope this helps.