RBTA Dying??

['Ric]

What could be wrong with my RBTA?

 

He hardly expanded at all, and was recessed back into a crevice where I first put him. So, I move the rock he was stuck to up to give him a little more light and flow, but still nothing.

 

Recently I had a low Ph dip, almost down to 7.9, but it's back to 8.18 now. Could there be another problem besides the Ph dip, or will it just take him a while to recover?

 

'Ric

 

[traveller7]

Hi Ric,

 

Tough to analyze a single picture but:

 

- some of the tentacles appear to actually be damaged- predation, dosing nearby, powerhead, or heater?

- column appears to have damage - division, predation, powerhead, heater?

 

How long have you had it? Recent arrivals, acclimations, etc., frequently show more stress the first few days only to quickly adapt to a new tank.

 

Source? If it was from a local division, I would just make sure predation, power heads, heaters, and proper acclimation to lighting are not issues.

 

Best of luck.

['Ric]

HMMMM...

 

Two prime suspects:

 

I have a clownfish that used to host in my GBTA before it got to big and I sold it. He hosted in a torch coral, ultimately killing it, and then in a frogspawn, killing two heads of it, too. When I got the RBTA, he tried hosting in it, too, but he's as big as it is. He flaps into very aggressively to the point where I thought he might be hurting it. The RBTA wouldn't stay out and let him host, but would retract, frustrating the clownfish into going back to the frogspawn.

 

I haven't observed him picking on the RBTA, but I do have a PB Tang that recently has begun nipping at my clam and sponges in the tank. He's been going a bit nuts. He's gotten a lot bigger since I got him, so maybe it's time for him to go.

 

Do either seem more plausible than the other? If the PB Tang was nipping at him, wouldn't he get stung?

 

'Ric

[NRehman]

Ric,

 

If the RBTA is a recent division, it should get some time without a clown trying to host it. If I recall from my readings, new splits (aka sliced) anemones need a bit of time to recover or can be damaged by clowns which are agressively trying to host in an anemone.

['Ric]

Ric,

 

If the RBTA is a recent division, it should get some time without a clown trying to host it. If I recall from my readings, new splits (aka sliced) anemones need a bit of time to recover or can be damaged by clowns which are agressively trying to host in an anemone.

 

 

I've had it since mid-December, so it's most recent was at least a month and a half ago.

['Ric]

Well, I put a permanent-coffee-filter (the non-metallic kind) over it for the night. There's a gap under it I can't block that the clown could probably get through, but i think it will deter the PB Tang, in case he's the guilty one.

 

'Ric

[FishWife]

My RBTA is also not doing well... but that's to be expected. I had no sooner nursed it back to health using frozen smelts when we did our tank swap. It did pretty well in the holding tanks, but is not looking super right now. I'm going to work with it, but in case it doesn't make it and I look to a replacement, and also in case my clownfish starts hosting (and killing) all my LPS's when she FINALLY comes out of QT tomorrow AM (um... today, I guess, it's late) and goes back into the display, can I ask for some experience-based counsel?

 

Traveller and Chip (and anyone else who had enjoyed success): can you weigh in with a few tips on anemones? For instance:

 

1. Would you agree that one should wait any amount of time in establishing a tank before introducing an anemone, as Calfo writes in his Invert book?

 

2. Are clownfish beneficial or deathly to anemone? If the latter, are there any tricks to making things work out?

 

3. How big of a new anemone should you look for? Is small OK, or is bigger more stable and likely to do well in a new setting?

 

4. How/what do you feed them?

 

5. How important is pH (and other chemical factors that I don't know to ask about, like salinity)?

Edited February 5, 2008 by FishWife

[flowerseller]

Traveller and Chip (and anyone else who had enjoyed success): can you weigh in with a few tips on anemones? For instance:

 

1. Would you agree that one should wait any amount of time in establishing a tank before introducing an anemone, as Calfo writes in his Invert book?

 

2. Are clownfish beneficial or deathly to anemone? If the latter, are there any tricks to making things work out?

 

3. How big of a new anemone should you look for? Is small OK, or is bigger more stable and likely to do well in a new setting?

 

4. How/what do you feed them?

 

5. How important is pH (and other chemical factors that I don't know to ask about, like salinity)?

 

I base my thoughts and experiences on my BTA's and my production farm.

1. it mostly depends how the "established" tank was set up.

If a transfer, not too much different than bringing home from pet shop.

If a new hard cycle, about 6 plus months or where you see actively newly mount encrusting SPS before you get a BTA.

 

2. Loaded question,

often more benificial for the clown in that it provides refuge

Size makes a difference, both ways

Some feed their host some "love" them to death

clowns do fine w/o anemones, but often seek unusual hosts

anemones do fine w/o clowns

never in a new manual divide until the mouth is centered and than a small one

 

 

3. I prefer to sell/trade small anemones (caveat in that they seem to be more mobile) that have a great red color and a centered mouth. I've never seen someone exclaim with delight at how small their anemone has gotten, but have the other way around. Also from a price stand point.

size matters but bigger is not more stable, health of anemone is

bigger can cause more pollution if goes south

 

4. I feed mine scalpels.

I feed the farm. I do not feed my anemones much since I have a very busy life outside away from my aquarium. I prefer to produce a dog that does not need a walk. When I do I feed small to it chunks of cheap fish/shrimp from the seafood counter. never imitation crab or the like.

 

4a. You did not mention light so since my buddy dhoch often accuses me of taking threads off track, here's an excellent opportunity to do so.

I find RBTA anemones want as much ligh as they want.

Some move to it, some shy away from it.

I have been growing many of mine under vho bulbs and having plenty of success in producing many generation lines of anemones that do fine accustomed to lower lighting while still holding great color. This will hold true in the new farm but it will go to MH and "they" decide or some will be cordoned off to do so.

 

5. always important silly, my SG is always in the 1.024-1.027 range with a target of 1.026.

I use both Ca and kalk reactors and have the dickens of a time keeping my pH "high" regardless of the skimmer I use. It ranges 7.86-8.30 but the 8.30 is short lived. This is a heavily stocked, well fed system also and that does make a bunch of difference. I change 10-20g per week and siphon vaccuum my sump, more since I have been recently expanding my water volume lately.

Yes, you can siphon vaccuum a floor level sump very effectively and do not need a pump!

 

hth

[traveller7]

1. Would you agree that one should wait any amount of time in establishing a tank before introducing an anemone, as Calfo writes in his Invert book?

Stability is key with many anemone species, established tanks tend to be more stable. Unless the rock is well established and maintained during "new" tank transitions, I tend to wait a few months.

 

This is a wide range of species tolerance though, i.e. Haddoni is frequently on tidal flats and out of water for a few hours, hardly stable.

 

2. Are clownfish beneficial or deathly to anemone? If the latter, are there any tricks to making things work out?

Most clowns are a net benefit, although many are quite abusive. General rule for sizing the anemone to clown is to have the anemone's oral disk 3x greater then the clown length. I prefer to allow the anemone to stabilize and begin growing prior to allowing clowns to call it home(30ish days or so).

 

High probability abusers(tentacle eating, mouth picking, column biting, food stealing): Maroons and Black Saddlebacks.

 

3. How big of a new anemone should you look for? Is small OK, or is bigger more stable and likely to do well in a new setting?

Hosting anemone sizing is species dependent but here are a few generals:

 

BTA: 3-5" with well formed tentacles(larger if tentacles are damaged, bleached, etc.)

M. doreensis: 6-8"

H. crispa: 6-10"

H. magnifica: Avoid

S. haddoni: 7-10" (good shipping size, larger ones frequently damaged, stressed, etc.)

S. gigantea: Avoid

 

A general rule, smaller specimens ship better but don't provide much time to acclimate before wasting away. When adding a clown into the mix, smaller anemones don't stand up well to hosting clowns.

 

4. How/what do you feed them?

Mysis and brine when they catch them and since I overfeed the clowns by 2x, the anemones grab some daily.

 

1 week - 2 months, lancefish.

5. How important is pH (and other chemical factors that I don't know to ask about, like salinity)?

IME stability is important. Chip and I have tanks at opposite ends of the water quality spectrum. His is text book managed, mine is nitrate laden "breeder" quality and lucky to see water changes every few months. For the record, Chips anemones grow much larger in my tanks :D

 

If dosing, make sure the dosing point is away from the anemone.

[gastone]

My RBTA is also not doing well... but that's to be expected. I had no sooner nursed it back to health using frozen smelts when we did our tank swap. It did pretty well in the holding tanks, but is not looking super right now. I'm going to work with it, but in case it doesn't make it and I look to a replacement, and also in case my clownfish starts hosting (and killing) all my LPS's when she FINALLY comes out of QT tomorrow AM (um... today, I guess, it's late) and goes back into the display, can I ask for some experience-based counsel?

 

Traveller and Chip (and anyone else who had enjoyed success): can you weigh in with a few tips on anemones? For instance:

 

1. Would you agree that one should wait any amount of time in establishing a tank before introducing an anemone, as Calfo writes in his Invert book?

 

2. Are clownfish beneficial or deathly to anemone? If the latter, are there any tricks to making things work out?

 

3. How big of a new anemone should you look for? Is small OK, or is bigger more stable and likely to do well in a new setting?

 

4. How/what do you feed them?

 

5. How important is pH (and other chemical factors that I don't know to ask about, like salinity)?

 

 

Though not Chip (thank goodness) and certainly not Scott I'll give it a go.

 

1. My suggestion is at least 6 months, preferably a year before adding an anemone to a new tank. I say this out of experience as I did wait 6 month and then promptly killed a quadricolor clone. I think there is something to be said for the tank itself being established, matured, aged... as well as the reefkeeper.

 

2. Clownfish and anemones have a symbiotic relationship. The anemones protect the clowns from predation (and vice versa in some cases), and the clowns inadvertently feed the host. I doubt this is a nurturing behavior, more like squirrels hoarding their food, except in this case the "pantry" eats the reserves.

 

3. Size is not an indication of overall health upon initial purchase IMO. Look for a gaping mouth, tattered tenticles, feeding response, color (as in does it have some, is it unnatural). A general recommendation would be an anemone that's diameter is at least 3x the length of the female clown. Smaller and it might get battered to death.

 

4. Different anemone require different supplemental feedings. I used to feed my quadricolor whole silversides (soaked in selcon) until I noticed that often times it would expell undigested remains. I have since switched over to smaller foods, mysis and mush. I hear that haddonis prefer expensive tangs. Here is a good start: http://www.carlosreef.com/AnemoneFAQ.pdf

 

5. If you are having large parameter swings I would recommend holding off.

 

 

Garrett.

 

Edit: I was putting together a response as when both Chip and Scott posted. Feel free to disregard.

Edited February 5, 2008 by gastone

[traveller7]

Edit: I was putting together a response as when both Chip and Scott posted. Feel free to disregard.

Doubt Chip or I would argue with anything you posted and your points to question 3 are very important when selecting a specimen ;>)

[FishWife]

Thanks SO MUCH.

 

So, from all that I have another question arising from the discussion above my post: my tank is sort of new and sort of not. All my rocks are aged, cycled, and aged some more. We've had them fallow from Christmas day (when our system came down with ich) to today, when we finally reintroduced fish. 1/3 of the rocks came from a mature system in Oct 07; the other 2/3 came from a mature tank that had been let go (and hence to our tub and the fallow routine for a month). These rocks have been in, with corals, and cycling for about two weeks in the 175g display tank. The water is cleansed by one of Dan's Standard 8's which is producing very little green stuff. Today, we introduced three fish (from our month-long hyposalinity/quarentine stint: thanks, Chip, all our fish lived!) .

 

So: is my system "mature" enough for two RBTA?

 

If not (as I suspect you'll say) when would you guestimate "maturity" enough for the 'nem? (And when will you have some ready for me, Chip? I am partial to RBTA, and I think we want two, since I've heard that multiple specimens will do better since the clownfish will wander back and forth and not beat them up as much.)

 

In the meantime, how do I keep my small (2") maroon clown from hosting my LPS's to death (if she does start to do so)? Put her back in QT?

Edited February 5, 2008 by FishWife

[bk_market]

Hi, I have an off topic question for Chip.

 

How exactly do you siphon your sump from floor level? I have one at the floor and I cant figure out how to clean it. Thanx

[flowerseller]

Hi, I have an off topic question for Chip.

 

How exactly do you siphon your sump from floor level? I have one at the floor and I cant figure out how to clean it. Thanx

 

 

I'm not the one taking this off thread,,,,,,

 

I exactly fill the sump to the top and siphon (vaccuum) until the sump level matches the bucket level.

Everybody loves a clean sump

 

Say, speaking of that,

Does Sally really sell seashells by the seashore and was this before or after slipping Sally through the ally?

 

 

Oh, BTW.

 

Today is chop chop day in McLean

[FishWife]

So... Grabbing the thread back again can we define "mature tank" in terms of anemone? Rocks? System running? (This will be of general interest, I think...)

 

And, maybe, assess my tank for how soon we might buy two of Chip's RBTAs and have it live, as outlined above? (This is for my info, but I really want to know... ) (As I feared, my clownfish has started trying to host my hammer corals... and I hear that it's bad for her and them... ideas?)

[lanman]

So... Grabbing the thread back again can we define "mature tank" in terms of anemone? Rocks? System running? (This will be of general interest, I think...)

 

And, maybe, assess my tank for how soon we might buy two of Chip's RBTAs and have it live, as outlined above? (This is for my info, but I really want to know... ) (As I feared, my clownfish has started trying to host my hammer corals... and I hear that it's bad for her and them... ideas?)

 

I have VERY little experience. I got an RBTA (one of the WAMAS 200th generation clones) by accident when I bought some live rock from a member for setting up my 240.

 

All the rock, and about 1/4 of the water in the 240 came from mature systems. About a week after the tank was full and moving water, I added the live rock, which included the RBTA. He was tiny, and beat up. He has since moved all over the tank, colored up a bit, grown quite a bit, and is now quite happy living in a crevice in my rockwork. He eats like a pig - including a piece of silverside last night almost as big as he is.

 

Sometimes it's just luck, I think.

 

bob

[FishWife]

That's interesting, Bob. So, maybe it's just a luck thing? My Xenia is growing like a weed, and others have trouble keeping them. Hmm. Well, guess we'll just have to see what happens. THANKS for all the great info. I'm storing the link to this one, gentlemen!

[YBeNormal]

 

I'm not the one taking this off thread,,,,,,

 

Today is chop chop day in McLean

 

 

No more kids, eh?

[trble81]

No more kids, eh?

 

 

Burn