monti bleaching

[zotzer]

Hi all!

Over the weekend, my indigo monti from Dr. Mac started to fade. It still has color, but is fading out fast.

 

On his website, he states that this is a high-light, high-flow coral, so I have it up as high in my tank as is physically possible. It's been growing and encrusting on the frag plug since the fall meeting, and the color change happened very quickly.

 

I *just* (as in ten minutes ago) changed out my light fixture from a 4x39w T5 to a 6x39w T5 unit.

 

I am trying to determine whether the fading would occur because of too much light, or too little. If too much, I need to move it fast, as I just upped the ante. Odd thing is that it's been in the tank for some months now, and the bleaching happened quickly.

 

I've been in the process of boosting my CA and alk. (was ca 360 and alk 2.5 before I started adjusting yesterday). All other parameters are in ideal ranges, and other corals are showing no signs of stress or issue.

 

If this were you, what action would you take?

 

Tracy

Edited January 25, 2008 by zotzer

[jason the filter freak]

Did you acllimate the coral to the new lighting? Did the fading occur before or after you added the new bulbs, the bump up in PAR sometimes causes bleaching

[zotzer]

The fading started to happen before I added the new light. That's why I'm in a bit of a crunch. If the consensus is that bleaching would be caused by too much light, I'd better move it fast.

 

But, it was under the same light for months looking great. Fading started happening over the weekend. It's pretty pale, but still not white, so I am hoping there is hope!

 

Also, the fading has been overall....not just in one area.....even across the board.

 

Tracy

[scott711]

How old were the lights before you replaced them? Also if you changed the lights you will need to acclimate your corals to the increased light

[lanman]

No frags down on the bottom of the tank for comparison?

 

Are you still getting some polyp extension?? Have the polyps changed color as well?

 

bob

[zotzer]

I had bought the fixture used, but upgraded/replaced the bulbs back on November 15th. So, it was under the new bulbs for over two months. Since they were so new, three of them have been transferred into the new fixture, to replace the stock bulbs.

 

I've already set the timers to reduce the full daylight cycle, and will slowly ramp them up.

 

Polyps are visible, but barely. The whole thing has changed color....evenly faded across the board.

 

No frags on the bottom. It still is a frag in and of itself. :(

 

Tracy

Edited January 25, 2008 by zotzer

[dhoch]

My vote is too much light... move down in the tank... especially a monti... let it acclimate...

 

CA & Alk (in values like you have can also cause bleaching).

 

Dave

[zotzer]

Thanks....that's what I'm looking to know!

 

Would it take two months of too much light to cause the bleaching though? Just thought it might be quicker under that circumstance. I guess that is why I am not 100% positive and am looking for feedback.

 

Whatever the consensus is, that's what I'll do in the morning.

 

Thanks for all of your input, all!!

Tracy

[lanman]

I killed my first monti cap with too much light... it grew like CRAZY for about a week, and then collapsed.

 

I didn't know - thought I was giving it the PRIMO spot in the tank, up high under the middle of the MH light.

 

bob

[zotzer]

Well, the monti is moved....not to the bottom, but a little more than half way down. There are parts that are still glowing solid blue under actinics (the base of this coral always glowed dark blue...polyps dark purple). The blue isn't as dark, but it is there, as are the polyps....albeit shrunken and faded.

 

Here's hoping that I can get it to color back up, and if it does, that I can find a permanent, appropriate spot for it in the tank.

 

Tracy

Edited January 26, 2008 by zotzer

[davelin315]

Hey Tracy, I disagree that light is your cause. It might be contributing to it, but to me, the light itself being in place for 2 months is not your cause. That said, let me ask you some questions that might sway me one way or the other...

 

Have you recently added any mechanical or chemical filtration? That can cause your water clarity to change and affect the amount of light that gets to your coral.

 

What is your temperature range? The ocean, if I'm recalling correctly, is at around 76 degrees or so, not accounting for global warming. Reefs are slowly bleaching out and dying due to minor changes in temperature that we witness each day in our reefs. I set my chiller to 76 and the temperature rises at times up to 79 during the day. I am hoping that there is no swing at all when I get my fan hooked up to run through the lumenarcs. There are many reefs that are run at 80 degrees, which in my humble opinion is too hot. Not that I haven't run it at this temperature before, but it's not ideal by any means.

 

Have you introduced any new corals that might be releasing chemicals into the water that could be affecting your coral?

 

Is it actually bleaching or is it simply changing colors according to your lights? If it's not actually turning white, perhaps it's simply that different zooxanthellae are becoming more populous and changing the complexion of your coral. Browning out and bleaching are two possibilities when a coral is receiving too much or too little light, but I don't know where your coral is bleaching from. If it's top down, it could be light, if it's bottom up or splotchy, the light is not affecting it in my opinion.

 

Got a picture?

[zotzer]

Have you recently added any mechanical or chemical filtration? That can cause your water clarity to change and affect the amount of light that gets to your coral.

 

Thanks, Dave. I appreciate your help. In fact, I did add a small amount of filter floss. It's about a 1/2" thick sheet that I put in my fuge preskimmer between the overflow and pump (just a 2"x6" sheet of it). The goal was to help with the water clarity a little. Never considered that such small amount of filter floss could impact things so much, but when I replaced it today, it was disgusting (obviously catching lots of crud)

 

What is your temperature range? The ocean, if I'm recalling correctly, is at around 76 degrees or so, not accounting for global warming.

 

Well, I thought I had been running the tank around 74-76, but when I finally got an accurate thermometer, it shows the tank running at a constant 80 degrees.

 

Have you introduced any new corals that might be releasing chemicals into the water that could be affecting your coral?

 

Nope, nothing new. It was also in a somewhat isolated spot. The only corals that were anywhere near it were another monti cap and a birdsnest.

 

Is it actually bleaching or is it simply changing colors according to your lights?

Got a picture?

 

I'll get a picture tomorrow when the lights come back on. It is definitely bleaching, but not from any one place....totally even over the whole thing. It went from deep dark indigo/purple, to light pastel pink over the course of several days. My large green monti cap that was right next to it has not paled out at all...nor have any of the other montis (red, and brown with green polyps) which are lower in the tank.

 

Here's the most recent FTS (pre-bleaching)....it's the small purple square on the top right of the tonga branch:

 

 

Thanks again for chiming in. It's a real puzzle.

Tracy

[ctenophore]

If this were you, what action would you take?

 

I would increase feeding. Ideally you could target feed the monti some oyster eggs or similar small particle coral food several times per day. The coral needs to catch more food since it's getting less energy from photosynthesis. Hopefully more food in the tank also will temporarily boost free nutrients, allowing zooxanthellae to grow and recruit in the coral. If it turns brown, that's a good thing. Brown means lots of zoox in coral tissue, which means a well-fed coral. Color will come back in time if it survives.

 

I'd be very interested to see which monti type/species it is. I have had bad luck with the bumpy purple M. danae-looking montis often called M. palawanensis. They always bleach out on me after a few weeks, like yours is. I suspect that whatever zoox strain is living in the coral when it was imported must not be very hardy, and the coral has trouble recruiting new zoox clades in captivity (if it can even harbor them at all)

 

Good luck

Justin

[zotzer]

Justin,

Here's the link to it on Dr. Mac's site: http://www.pacificeastaquaculture.com/Deta...15+Waiting+List

 

As you can see....it might be a small frag, but it's not a cheap one. LOL

 

I did target feed it some reef chili today. Thanks for the idea to do so multiple times a day...will give it another shot now.

 

I know that other people bought these at the fall meeting, because Dr. Mac sold out of them. How are others' frags doing??

 

Tracy

[ctenophore]

That's not the one I've had trouble with.

 

You might put it on the bottom or very near if you haven't already. If it has lost pigments then it could be susceptible to burning (assuming its pigments are protective).

 

Turn off your flow pumps when feeding and make sure a cloud of the food sits on it as long as possible.

[zotzer]

The biggest challenge is keeping the juvie clownfish out of the way. He actually comes and sucks right from the bottom of the target feeding bottle. LOL

[zotzer]

Okay, lights just came on, so I snapped a pic.

 

Here is the color the day I got it back in October (and it remained this color up until last weekend):

 

Here it is now. It actually looks more white in this pic than it is. It's like a very pale pink. You can see that it had encrusted over the sides of the frag plug. It still glows blue under the actinics (which gives me some hope of life remaining):

 

Tracy

[davelin315]

It looks like it expelled certain types of zooxanthellae or that they weren't getting what they wanted and were outcompeted. It doesn't look much different than a lot of corals when you buy them at the store after shipping. I wouldn't consider it bleached, just lost one of its colors is all. If it's pink, it has some zooxanthellae. I would say it's been partially bleached, or simply developing other colors. It very well could be that it's not getting enough light and instead it needs more to maintain the blue/purple coloration. Typically they will brown out, but it's not unheard of to lose the colors. Think about what a coral in the dark looks like, not as much color as in full blown lighting. Could also have to do with a color shift in your old bulbs. They may have shifted away from the spectrum that was required to keep them the same color that it began as.

[zotzer]

Thanks for your help, Dave.

 

Do you think the spectrum shift could have occured already on two-month old bulbs though? The lamps I upgraded to mid-november were actually higher par too.

 

Something obviously made it unhappy. I guess I'll keep target feeding it and seeing if I can't get some sort of color to reappear.

 

I have read over on RC about people with T5 systems who's corals "pastel out". Entire tanks look like lighter versions of their prior selves. This is the only SPS that has been affected in my tank so far. Guess I'll just wait and see what happens.

 

Dr. Mac keeps this coral under 1000w 20ks. I'm with you that the color change probably isn't due to "too much" light.

[dhoch]

20Ks... interesting...

 

I'm more with the params causing it than anything else (you mentioned low calc & alk way back when).

 

This one just seems more susceptable maybe.

 

What I can say is that I have had corals go from my 180 to my 40 breeder and exhibit this same behavior.

 

Whats the difference... well more par (even though less bulbs and smaller wattage) on the 40 for one, PLUS lack of stable params... I've been able to stabilized the params and the bulbs are now a year old and milli & montis have now colored back up.

 

Dave

[zotzer]

Yep, could be oddball parameters. I did go through several days when I had to top off with treated tap a couple weeks back. Could be a delayed response to that, plus the low cal and alk. Got a bum bucket of reef crystals and didn't discover it until several water changes into it.

[dschflier]

My first suggestion if you haven't done so already would be to call or write Dr. MAC. Tell him what you use in your system as in light filtration and your parameters and then ask him what he uses and what he might think could be causing the issue.

 

From the picture of the parent colony it appears he is able to keep them pretty succesfully.