New to the Hobby

[newfish]

Hi,

I have a 30 gallon fish tank that I have gotten all setup for saltwater.

I have everything ready and have all of my water tested and even have a Yellow Clown Gobi in the tank.

Unfortunatly I do not really have the money right now to go by all of the live rock and corals that I need.

I know that this is an expensive hobby but just currently things are tight.

I have put posts on Craigslist and they all tell me to come here.

I was wondering if anyone can help me get my initial setup going. I have a pound and a half of Figi liverock that I got for my gobi to hide in for now.

If anyone can help anyway please let me know. I am in the Reston area and can drive pretty much anywhere in the DC Area.

Please let me know if you have any questions about my set up.

I can send pictures if interested.

Thanks For all the help

[Brian Ward]

Hi,

I have a 30 gallon fish tank that I have gotten all setup for saltwater.

I have everything ready and have all of my water tested and even have a Yellow Clown Gobi in the tank.

Unfortunatly I do not really have the money right now to go by all of the live rock and corals that I need.

I know that this is an expensive hobby but just currently things are tight.

I have put posts on Craigslist and they all tell me to come here.

I was wondering if anyone can help me get my initial setup going. I have a pound and a half of Figi liverock that I got for my gobi to hide in for now.

If anyone can help anyway please let me know. I am in the Reston area and can drive pretty much anywhere in the DC Area.

Please let me know if you have any questions about my set up.

I can send pictures if interested.

Thanks For all the help

 

 

 

Welcome. Join the club, it's completely worth the fee. You'll get access to the buying/selling forum and you'll save a TON of money buying things from other people in the club. I just recommend you work in slowly - you don't need a ton of live rock to get started with small fish. You'll need the live rock before you can keep corals. Work your tank up slowly - many people have. Build things yourself - great way to save money. As your tank gets more complicated, that's when you have to spend more. Just read about everyone else's builds and ask for advice when you want to do something.

[gmubeach]

I know where your coming from I lost my job and havn't been able to find a new one. I would also recomend spending the 20$ for the membership and I would check out DR MAC CORALS. or Drmaccorals.com hes got live rock going for 4$ a pound and its 10X better then the stuff in a local fish store. The only catch is to avoid shipping you have to drive to the eastern shore its about 4 hours from me in springfield va and it was well worth it just to see his tanks! Anyway.... Craigslist is a ok place to find stuff, but unless someone is really tite with moving its hard to get a really good deal. Also I avoid craigslist because there are alot of scammers on there. For instance when I sold pusling xenia I sold it for 10-15 dollers a frag. Some guy bought my xenia and turned around and put it up for 25! Couldn't believe that .... The other thing you have to watch out for is HITCH HIKERS!!! they are all over peoples stuff. Avoid buying live rock at lfs and do pay the 20$ membership fee in addition you will get 10% off at select saltwater stores. You get access to a bunch of diffrent things like for sale forums and stuf/groupbuys and you get to meet alot of great people anyway I'll pm you with some stats and if you want you can come check out my tank thanks again Troy

[newfish]

Thanks for the advice everyone.

As soon as I get the $$$ I will definatly become a member.

I look forward to getting more involved and meeting others that love this hobby.

Thanks again

[gmubeach]

Did you get my pm? If you didn't I will send again I love this club and recomend it to any person that wants to get into the hobby! I went to my first social today and it was lots of fun. I Just need to meet more people in the hobby it was hard in that online we go by screen names, but I had lots of fun. I got some hermits and some bubble bee snails. As well as a nice coral for way less then I would of payed else where at a local fish store. Anyway I hope you join when you can! If you didn't get my pm pm me back.

[treesprite]

welcome Newfish!

 

It IS an expensive hobby if you're on my kind of budget. I have had to do a little at a time, and thanks to joining WAMAS I have more than I would otherwise. If you join the club you will be able to see the member-only boards that include buy/sell/trade, and sometimes people have freebies on the buy/sell board.

 

Can you tell us what kind of equipment you already have? That might be a start for people to be able to give you ideas about what you can do, and give you a base for deciding what to get or upgrade in what order as money allows.

[newfish]

I have a 30 Gallon Tall Aquarium.

Protein Skimmer and Fluval 205 Canister Filter.

Heater

Nothing special for lighting yet. I have a typical florescent light hood with what I think is a 15W T8 aquarium bulb, so any suggestions or help there would be great.

I have Caribsea Sand. Salt(ofcourse)

Only a pound and a half of liverock and a yellow clown gobi.

 

And that is it.

I have had the gobi for about a week and he is doing great. He seems much happier now that the liverock is in there(what little bit there is).

 

I really want to get some corals going so I know that I will need to change my lighting situation.

but the first thing is the live rock.

I REALLY NEED TO GET SOME MORE.

I would really like to have a couple of clowns. That is really all that I will for sure be getting other than that I am open to suggestions.

 

I plan on joining the club as soon as I get some money.

Any help with anything would be great.

[zotzer]

This is a great club, and the members are very generous. You can indeed save a lot of money by joining.

 

That said (and not to come off like a party pooper), even with the generosity of fellow reefers, the hobby is far from free. At a minimum, you'll need funds to purchase water conditioner and salt to maintain what you already have. Live rock is something you'll rarely find for free. Lighting is another that, although you can get great deals on used stuff, will rarely come free. Sometimes this happens, but it is often to reefers who have systems set up at schools and the like.

 

Work on maintaining what you have, even if it is a very modest start. Once you've saved up and gotten some appropriate lighting, many members are frequently trimming and flushing fast-growing easy corals like Kenya Tree and Xenia. Put the word out, and you can drive around town and pick up starter corals by the bagfull. :P These are live animals though, and many would rather euthanize with a flush down the toilet than put them in an environment where they know they will suffer a slow death (ie: under inappropriate lighting).

 

Sometimes in life you've got to give a little to get a little. For example, when you see someone post that they are moving a tank and need help, jump in and offer your time. Pitch in, make yourself known to people, contribute, and things will come back to you 100-fold.

 

Good luck, and keep us posted on your progress.

Tracy

[gmubeach]

These are live animals though, and many would rather euthanize with a flush down the toilet than put them in an environment where they know they will suffer a slow death (ie: under inappropriate lighting)

 

Wow thats cruel If you really need to get rid of these types of corals centerville aquariums will give you a turn in coupon I never flush anything!

[lanman]

These are live animals though, and many would rather euthanize with a flush down the toilet than put them in an environment where they know they will suffer a slow death (ie: under inappropriate lighting)

Wow thats cruel If you really need to get rid of these types of corals centerville aquariums will give you a turn in coupon I never flush anything!

 

Ah... but you don't understand - some people have xenia, for example, that grows so fast they could completey saturate the local market. One guy used to try to unload a pound or two of xenia each week. I have a rather large quantity of Green Star Polyps at the moment. I doubt I could get enough for it at any LFS to pay for the gas to get it there. And I definitely need to get rid of some soon - it's trying to strangle one of my sinularias.

 

bob

[gmubeach]

Oh thats crazy! 2 pounds of it a week is a ton, but as far as I know centerville will still take it for a 10 percent turn in coupon. Anyway I'm sure he would find a buyer for it. Some people love xenia I personally love all corals, but given that room is an issue I don't mind taking them to the local fish store! Anyway if your going to flush I understand now why you would.

 

I used to turn in cheato when I had it in my tank he would gladly give me a turn in coupon that huge emeral crab turn in coupon anyway I still understand why you would flush.

Edited January 13, 2008 by gmubeach

[Brian Ward]

I have a 30 Gallon Tall Aquarium.

Protein Skimmer and Fluval 205 Canister Filter.

Heater

Nothing special for lighting yet. I have a typical florescent light hood with what I think is a 15W T8 aquarium bulb, so any suggestions or help there would be great.

I have Caribsea Sand. Salt(ofcourse)

Only a pound and a half of liverock and a yellow clown gobi.

 

And that is it.

I have had the gobi for about a week and he is doing great. He seems much happier now that the liverock is in there(what little bit there is).

 

I really want to get some corals going so I know that I will need to change my lighting situation.

but the first thing is the live rock.

I REALLY NEED TO GET SOME MORE.

I would really like to have a couple of clowns. That is really all that I will for sure be getting other than that I am open to suggestions.

 

I plan on joining the club as soon as I get some money.

Any help with anything would be great.

 

 

 

 

OK... enough with how you can't afford it. A lot of people latch onto that earlier statement since many try to get into the hobby and don't understand the cost. As far as how to upgrade your system:

 

 

 

You have a good setup for fish-only. I'm assuming you're running some ceramic media in the canister to aid your biological filtration? This can make up for not having enough live rock but your nitrates will likely grow out of control - that's what the live rock helps with over the canister. The aerobic bacteria is able to grow and thrive and that will break the nitrate back into nitrogen and oxygen making water changes less frequent. Also you have live sand, this helps as well. DO NOT EVER STIR UP YOUR SAND BED! It will release all kinds of horrible chemicals and probably kill most of your stock. Also before you go for any difficult corals you'll want to look at upgrading to some sort of overflow/sump system for filtration. This is preferred for mechanical and chemical filtration. The other option is a big HOB filter such as a biowheel - this can also cause nitrate problems but if you have enough live rock you should be OK.

 

 

 

The skimmer is good - what kind do you have? Depending on what type of corals you want to keep will drive what direction you need to go. The Deltec MCE300 is an excellent HOB skimmer and will be more than sufficient to keep your water quality VERY high. Don't know if you're looking to upgrade that component, but when you do (it's inevitable) I'd seriously consider that one. If you decide to go to a sump, talk to Dan (Dandy7200) he makes excellent skimmers but does not have a HOB model.

 

T8 lighting will keep very few, if any, corals and will probably only contribute to an algae problem. I would recommend an upgrade to T5 - at least initially. Look at the IceCap retro kits. I'd probably recommend 4 bulbs spanning the length of the tank - 2 actinic, 2 white (whichever spectrum you like best) and individual reflectors. I'm not sure what your hood looks like but my guess is that you have a standard strip light setup - this is OK but you'll want to modify your hood into more of a canopy that is more suited to holding the lights. Many people like MH but there are a ton of reasons not to go straight there - heat and cost being the primary ones.

 

 

 

That should get you started and ready for corals.

[gmubeach]

Yeppers, Lights are the most expensive part of reef keepingas itapplies to corals. Anyway if you factor in the cost of new bulbes 100$ every 6 months to a year you may want to try fish only. Discions are overwelming, but thats life. Anyway I hope you choose the setup that works for you!

[treesprite]

Newfish,

I'm totally understanding about the money thing, and not having financial ability to just run out any old time and getting things. Some people just don't realize that people without money have to take their steps differently or at least slower.

 

Here is my PRACTICAL small pocketbook advice from another person living essentially month-to-month with an ocassional small bit of non-dedicated money:

 

You just need to make a personal hobby plan that you can manage financially, and acquire things in the order that best suits your own desires and needs with the help of understanding priorities and pre-requisites for livestock. Education is extremely important as it will help you make these decisions. Write your plan down on paper... having your tank goals clearly spelled out will help keep you from getting discouraged over the costs and the need for patience in being able to pay for things. Sometimes the opportunity comes up to get a piece of equipment at a great bargain that is further ahead in the plan, but try to take advantage of those because you may not have such a good opportunity in the future.

 

You have enough for fish-only (FO) right now. Stick with FO until you can gradually add on the additional equipment and rock. If you have FO, your filter will be fine for a while, as will having less than desireable quantity of rock; most fish (other than especially delicate ones) have no problem with nitrate that is not outrageously high - as long as you have FO, you can set your upper limit of nitrate at 15. The primary problem with the nitrate at that level in a FO tank is algae and cyano.

 

What will keep your nitrate down is:

1. do not put too many fish... you have the goby and you want a pair of clowns - that is plenty for a 30 gallon tank.

2. Do a water change 5% every single week do not skip them until you are set up with rock and equipment to help the nitrate stay lower without so much effort.

3. Do not overfeed the fish. Don't feel sorry for the greedy ones. Put a tiny bit of food, avoid things that disintegrate in the water like some frozen foods do... other people here can give you better feeding advice than I can.

4. If you can't afford a HOB refugium that is sold as a refugium, try to find something like an old Aquaclear HOB filter that you can convert to a refugium then fill it with chaeto. People here sometimes give chaeto away. If you can't find or afford either of those equipments, you can put some other type of macro directly in your tank, like caulerpa or other more attractive macroalgae... just make sure it stays in a desirable area or else it might overgrow to everywhere. The macroalgae will help with controlling nitrate as well as helping keep down growth of undesirable algae as it competes for nutrients.

 

If you have only fish in your tank, you can keep your salt specific gravity at the level the "1/2 cup per gallon" of salt, as that should fall between 1.021 to 1.023... just make sure it's always the same (this is not high enough for any corals - you will have to adjust it up some when you are ready for those). You can keep some snails at that sg... you could probably keep hermit crabs too, but you will end up spending more money on snails as hermits are bound to kill some of them.

 

You do not need a refractometer for a FO tank as long as your sg stays constant - the way to keep it constant is to always measure the salt exactly the same way in conjunction with always keeping your water topped off (you can make a mark somewhere on the tank to remind you of when a top-off and how much is needed). What will throw your sg off is not making up for water that was lost in ways other than evaporation, such as spilling and water that goes in the skimmer cup. Take your swing-arm hydrometer to someone who can verify that the reading is correct initially... if it is off, you can mark the amount it is off by on the outside of it so that you don't have to replace it (if the arm sticks a lot, then replace the hydrometer), and follow what Tracy said about maintaining the hydrometer properly. Once in a while you can check your hydrometer accuracy with someone. (The one I use at work reads .015 too low, so I have it marked... it works just fine).

 

Once in a great while, someone will sell liverock for around 3$ a pound. Not everyone is willing to sell only a few pounds to a person, but ask. Do this several times as you are able to afford over time until you have enough. I had to get mine bits at a time... there's no rush if you only have fish.

 

If you do not have test kits, get them immediately. For FO tank you need to have kits for at least Ph, ammonia, nitrate, and phosphate. Calcium becomes mandatory when you start keeping corals and certain inverts, and other test kits are helpful to have. If anyone else has better practical advice on this, please correct me.

 

I had my own initial list for the very basics in this order - adjust your order as you feel best suits your needs:

powerheads

liverock

skimmer

better lights

sump-refugium - this also requires having a return pump and hoses or pvc plumbing (had caulerpa in the tank itself before I set this up, though things kept eating it)

 

Once I had those things, I started to put coral frags in my tank - I would not do it before then.

 

Don't buy really crappy equipment. Look for bargains on used equipment that is good equipment before looking to new stuff. You don't need "top of the line" brand names, just stuff that will do the job you need it to do.

 

First before any of that, join WAMAS. I am not saying that to push the club itself, I am saying that because it will save you an absolute ton of money not just in terms of equipment but in the amount of money and frustration or discouragement you will save by having a good education which the people here can give you. That $20 dollars honestly I understand is difficult to come up with, but that is where I would put the first $20 you are targeting for your aquarium. I went my first 10 years all on my own with just advice from books and people in stores, and I was getting discouraged and was about ready to call it quits even though I loved my aquarium and wanted in my heart to move forward with it. I found the WAMAS website and thought to myself how much I did not want to take down my tank, then decided to join. Best thing I have ever done for my aquarium and I am back on track with my original plan which I adjusted by using the knowledge and hobby support I've gained.

[newfish]

WOW, Thanks everyone for the great advice.

I will just take my time and gradually get what I need.

With the lighting, I do realize that I will have to do a major upgrade before any corals.

As far as the Skimmer, I have a Visi-Jet PS. I realize now that this was probably not a very good purchase because it is not working like it should(I dont think). It is really hard to adjust so if anyone has any tips or experience with these please let me know.

Thanks again.

Edited January 13, 2008 by newfish

[gmubeach]

Anyway keep us informed on the progress. Its a fun hobby to be in and this forum is great make sure to led a helping hand when you can.

[newfish]

Just a quick question.

Are bigger tanks considered EASIER than smaller tanks.

I have the opportunity to get a 55 Gallon aquarium with Fluval 305 and lights.

1. Would you guys recommend smaller for beginners or a larger aquarium.

2. How hard would it be to put what I have in my 30 Gallon into the 55 Gallon.

 

Thanks

[gmubeach]

IN my opinion the more water the easier but the more expensive the supplies and everything will be. As for transfering Its fairly easy, but anytime you transfer tanks things can get messy and you may loose your livestock. PS whats the light on the tank?

[newfish]

IN my opinion the more water the easier but the more expensive the supplies and everything will be. As for transfering Its fairly easy, but anytime you transfer tanks things can get messy and you may loose your livestock. PS whats the light on the tank?

 

I am not sure yet... The person I may be getting it from said that the person that had it before him used it for saltwater and he used it for fresh.One light is blue and one is white

It is the kind of tank with the split in the middle and separate lights on each side.

I dont think that he really knows the difference.

When I find out I will let you guys no before I make a deal.

Its a trade deal for a guitar that I have.

Thanks again

[gmubeach]

Well I don't know what to tell you maybe do some research on the lighting and see if you can find something similar on the internet. That will give you a price and since your trading something maybe you will get a good deal anyway if I can help more just let me know

[Tee]

Hi newfish,

I am glad you made it here. I was the one who email you. There are a couple guy selling 150lbs of live rock in the member section for 3$/lbs. This is a good deal for live rock. I think 20 dollar for membership will pay itself off.

Tee

 

----------------------------

 

I have a 30 Gallon Tall Aquarium.

Protein Skimmer and Fluval 205 Canister Filter.

Heater

Nothing special for lighting yet. I have a typical florescent light hood with what I think is a 15W T8 aquarium bulb, so any suggestions or help there would be great.

I have Caribsea Sand. Salt(ofcourse)

Only a pound and a half of liverock and a yellow clown gobi.

 

And that is it.

I have had the gobi for about a week and he is doing great. He seems much happier now that the liverock is in there(what little bit there is).

 

I really want to get some corals going so I know that I will need to change my lighting situation.

but the first thing is the live rock.

I REALLY NEED TO GET SOME MORE.

I would really like to have a couple of clowns. That is really all that I will for sure be getting other than that I am open to suggestions.

 

I plan on joining the club as soon as I get some money.

Any help with anything would be great.

[treesprite]

maybe by "blue" he is talking about an actinic bulb.

 

Bigger tanks are better because of stability, so if you can go bigger I would say do it if you are much more interested in an aquarium than a guitar (I got my current tank in a trade for a comp monitor, thanks to being a WAMAS member).

Edited January 14, 2008 by treesprite

[newfish]

As far as transfering my current fish and things over, what do you guys recommend.

Should I put the water that is in the 30 Gallon in the 55 or just start fresh.

 

I am just trying to figure out whether or not I want to make the trade.

 

Thanks

[Brian Ward]

As far as transfering my current fish and things over, what do you guys recommend.

Should I put the water that is in the 30 Gallon in the 55 or just start fresh.

 

I am just trying to figure out whether or not I want to make the trade.

 

Thanks

 

 

 

You would want to re-use all the water from the 30 unless you used tap water to fill the 30 - if this is the case and you want to do corals down the road we'll need to talk about RO/DI. Take the water out and put it in a separate container. Put the LR in the same container. Put the fish in another container with some of the water, ideally with a powerhead, airstone and heater in case he needs to stay there for a while. Remove the sand, rinse it (tap water is fine here) so you don't release the chemicals into the water in the new tank. Put the new sand in the tank. Add the water, pouring it onto a bowl or plate in the tank to minimize the sandstorm. Add the rock, minimize the time the rock is out of the water to prevent another cycle - anything under 5 mins should be fine. Top off the tank with new water. Let the water clear - hopefully only a few hours. Drip acclimate the fish before adding it/them to the new tank. You will likely need more sand (or you can go barebottom and forgo the sand altogether). It's not difficult, just time consuming - probably 4 or 5 hours start to finish. Many people in the club will loan out buckets, powerheads, heaters, etc to other members for exactly this purpose since not everyone has all the extra supplies - especially just as you're getting started.

[newfish]

The current water that I have in my 30 Gallon is tap mixed with Salt.

I guess it would be best to start a discussion about the best type of water then?

I am not sure what the other types are or best way to do this is.

what is RO/DI.I assume that it is the water that you can get from the Fish Store. Can I mix my current water with this to maintain some of the good bacterias that I have developed in the 30

Thanks so much for the help