SPS Grow Question

[discretekarma]

I have a 180 with 2 250w MH bulbs. I have a wide glass brace in the middle of my tank causeing me to only fit 2 MH bulbs so I am going ot be upgrading to 400 watt bulbs.

 

I'm thinking about putting T5's on my frag tank. Any ideas about what 30" t5's would be best for that tank. It's a 20 long.

 

Would T5's work for all types of frags in my frag tank including SPS?

 

Thanks

Edited October 22, 2007 by discretekarma

[xCGx]

I'm not an SPS guru, but I know that they are a little more demanding, so its good to know things like how old your bulbs and what your calc and other parameters are at. I would check calc and adjust and buy new lights. Going to 400 watt lights depends how deep your tank is. You could probably stay with 250's and use xm 10'ks. Look up SANJAY on reefcentral, he has done the numbers as far as bulbs, ballasts, and such and has an interactive website. As far as coral growth, you would have to let us know your other parameters and equipment that you use, etc.

 

craig

[discretekarma]

My tank is a standard 180 gallon display tank 6' x 2' x 2'. I have two 250 watt metal halide bulbs ( one is 10k xm and the o ther 10k venture -much more blue for some reason) and two vho actinics. I have about 200lbs of live rock. I have a plastic tub as a sump for now with a mag 24 return pump going in to a 3/4" sea swirl. I have 2 1200GPH Koralia's. I have a 6 stage RO/DI made by The Filter Guys that ATO's with a Pan World. I'm building a frag tank to tie in to the rest of the system. On the frag tank I'll either move my 250 10k xm from the display tank if I get 400 watt bulbs or if I keep 250 watt bulbs on the display then I'll have a small pc light on the frag tank for now and just house softies in the frag tank. I have about 0-5 Nitrates, 0 Ammonia, 8.4 PH and 1.026 SG. I don't have the Ca or Alk kits so I've had to take my water to the LFS to get those numbers.

 

 

 

I'm not an SPS guru, but I know that they are a little more demanding, so its good to know things like how old your bulbs and what your calc and other parameters are at. I would check calc and adjust and buy new lights. Going to 400 watt lights depends how deep your tank is. You could probably stay with 250's and use xm 10'ks. Look up SANJAY on reefcentral, he has done the numbers as far as bulbs, ballasts, and such and has an interactive website. As far as coral growth, you would have to let us know your other parameters and equipment that you use, etc.

 

craig

Edited October 22, 2007 by discretekarma

[Gadgets]

Honestly you could do 250w bulbs . Use XM 10K bulbs and good reflectors (Lumenarcs) and you should be fine. In order to keep SPS happy and growing you need to concentrate on Water quality, Water flow and then lighting comes third. Get some new bulbs if you don't know the age of the ones your using now, that is likely a big problem. What are our water parameters (alk and Ca)? I think 400w will give you a lot of unnecessary heat. They can be used, but they aren't the best solution to your problem. Get your water quality together, your flow and you should have beautiful colonies in no time.

[discretekarma]

I think I am pretty set on the 400 watt lights . I can't fit luminarcs under my canopy and since I can only have 2 bulbs with not great reflectors, I think I need more power. I like the way the 400's look on the 180 better then the 250 watt 10k xm that I have on one side of my tank but I still am going to work on whatever it takes to get great water quality and flow as well. Is any ca and alk kit from the LFS good enough to test. I am getting a Grey Seas Aquatics K6 Kalk Stirrer in about 2 months.

 

Is my flow good? mag 24 return pump going in to a 3/4" sea swirl. I have 2 1200GPH Koralia's.

 

What else should I do besides test Ca and Alk and add a Kalk stirrer for water quality and what should I add or adjust regarding my flow?

 

Thanks,

Scott

 

 

 

Honestly you could do 250w bulbs . Use XM 10K bulbs and good reflectors (Lumenarcs) and you should be fine. In order to keep SPS happy and growing you need to concentrate on Water quality, Water flow and then lighting comes third. Get some new bulbs if you don't know the age of the ones your using now, that is likely a big problem. What are our water parameters (alk and Ca)? I think 400w will give you a lot of unnecessary heat. They can be used, but they aren't the best solution to your problem. Get your water quality together, your flow and you should have beautiful colonies in no time.

Edited October 22, 2007 by discretekarma

[lletellier]

the best advice I was told is that if your not even testing for the things you should be then your not ready for sps. like chris said, get ca and alk tests, get the numbers to where they should be and maintain them for a while, then add the corals. You'll figure out how to dose your system or maybe learn you need a kalk reactor... you won't know till you test.

[discretekarma]

Were you given that advice before or after your tank crashed?

 

I'll test the Ca and Alk.

 

I feel like a child who just lost my driving privileges.

 

Edited October 22, 2007 by discretekarma

[rioreef]

T5s over a 20g frag tank. No problem for any coral.

[discretekarma]

I bought a Calc test kit today at Aquarium 1 but they were out of Alk tests so I'll have to wait on that one. As soon as I got home opened it up and tested my system.

 

The results of the calc test was 350. If I understand correctly, it is supposed to be 400-450. Is this correct?

 

What should I do? Kalk stirrer?

 

Thanks,

Scott

[flowerseller]

Just asking,

 

Why are you so set on 400w lights?

What kind of reflector are you using now and will it change if the watts change?

Are you familiar with kalk and what it can or can't do or just what you hear?

Sand?

Skimmer? (high quality)

What's your view on relationship of ALK level to Ca level?

 

Just thoughts,

 

You likely do not need the 400's and heat will be an issue if you do not have room for lumennarcs.

if the reflectors are not great now, heat will become an issue.

If you add a kalk reactor, you will have difficulty getting/maintaining your Ca level above 350-370 with just it.

If you have decent ALK level, you can raise your Ca with calcium chloride, but too much of that and kalk may cause sand to bind together as one big blob.

If you don't have a good skimmer, the lights may actually hurt you if the heat does not.

Many find a higher ALk level combined with (even) a lower Ca level is just as desirable and certainly more so if the ALK is low and Ca is high.

 

Different point of view

 

Get an ALK kit and become familiar with the rise and fall

Research 2 part solutions and if you decide to, then use them light handed.

If you can't fit lumenarcs, your 400's might then be too close to the water adding heat.

I clearly find higher ALK with Ca at or close to 400 is better and easier on heat producing devices in the tank.

Low Alk sucks

[discretekarma]

Why are you so set on 400w lights?

 

I saw a 180 and liked the way it looked much better then my 250s. I have a big reflector that goes the whole length of the canopy. It's all that will fit with the VHO's and the MH. I just like them and don't think it will hurt anything so I'm getting them. My wife likes them better too and that's important to me. It's not that I feel like I NEED 400's but I really LIKE them and the way they look in a 180. 2 x 250 just doesn't do it for me. It would be a waste to do anything to my tank if I don't like the way it looks. IMO.

 

What kind of reflector are you using now and will it change if the watts change?

 

The 400 watt bulbs come with individual reflectors so I am going to put those in the other reflectors. The big refletors will reflect the VHO actinic and the individual will reflect the MH's.

 

Are you familiar with kalk and what it can or can't do or just what you hear?

 

Just what I hear.

 

Sand?

 

2" SB

 

Skimmer? (high quality)

 

ASM G3

 

What's your view on relationship of ALK level to Ca level?

 

Not sure

 

Just thoughts,

 

You likely do not need the 400's and heat will be an issue if you do not have room for lumennarcs.

if the reflectors are not great now, heat will become an issue.

 

I'd rather find a way to deal with the heat (chiller or fans) so that I can get lighting that looks good to me in my tank.

 

If you add a kalk reactor, you will have difficulty getting/maintaining your Ca level above 350-370 with just it.

If you have decent ALK level, you can raise your Ca with calcium chloride, but too much of that and kalk may cause sand to bind together as one big blob. Research 2 part solutions and then use them light handed.

 

Any suggestions on where to start?

 

If you don't have a good skimmer, the lights may actually hurt you if the heat does not.

 

Not sure I understand? How would lights hurt me if I don't have a good skimmer?

 

Many find a higher ALk level combined with (even) a lower Ca level is just as desirable and certainly more so if the ALK is low and Ca is high.

 

I need to get a Alk test kit if I can find somewhere that has one. I hate going there but I may have to see if Congressional has one since Aquarium 1 didn't and Jim at Tropical Fish World doesn't really stock much.

 

Right now my Ca is 350. Is that not going to be good with heat generating devices? It looks like you said I should get that to 400. Will 2 part help me do this??

 

I'm sure it will be easier for you to give me advice once you get my Alk number.

Edited October 23, 2007 by discretekarma

[lletellier]

Were you given that advice before or after your tank crashed?

 

I'll test the Ca and Alk.

 

I feel like a child who just lost my driving privileges.

 

 

 

AFTER :(

[dandy7200]

Honestly you could do 250w bulbs . Use XM 10K bulbs and good reflectors (Lumenarcs) and you should be fine. In order to keep SPS happy and growing you need to concentrate on Water quality, Water flow and then lighting comes third. Get some new bulbs if you don't know the age of the ones your using now, that is likely a big problem. What are our water parameters (alk and Ca)? I think 400w will give you a lot of unnecessary heat. They can be used, but they aren't the best solution to your problem. Get your water quality together, your flow and you should have beautiful colonies in no time.

 

Money.

 

 

I think you need to evaluate your lighting setup before moving on to a new one.

 

a. What brand and spectrum bulbs do you have?

b. Who's 180 were you looking at? What brand bulbs did they have? What spectrum?

c. What ballast do you have?

d. What ballast did they have?

 

 

If you don't know the age of your bulbs they are garbage. If you got them used and the person you bought them from didn't know, they were garbage before you turned them on.

 

2x 24" t-5 with ab+ bulbs near the center of the tank may be all the pop you need. This is what I use. These are kinda the new "actinic whites" for me.

 

 

Growing SPS is about 10% lighting, 80% water quality and movement and 10% luck.

 

Clear water helps the light penetrate better. Good skimming, UV, Carbon, Ozone are some things that will keep the water clear.

 

Ca and Alk. Important that they are balance and in range of ca 350-450 and alk 7-14. Now that is a pretty big range if your on top of things, again stability is more important than a single number. I shoot for 400/10 since it is easy to remember. If you don't know these numbers the sticks don't have a chance.

 

No3 and Po4. Important they are balanced and in the range of 0.0 and 0.0 Coral will live outside this range but growth is totally retarded.

 

Water movement. You should see the sand blowing around your tank. Many serious SPS keepers don't use sand. Many do. The successful ones either get used to the look of a controlled sandstorm or pull it all together. A 2" sandbed is doing nothing for water quality if it is stirred well. It might hurt you if not kept clean and moving.

 

Light. You seem to actually have this one wired. It is more about what you want to see than what the coral needs. I can tell you though a 250w 10k xm bulb looks an awful lot like a 400w 10k xm bulb. There is a little greater intensity, but the differences you are describing you would never be able to tell by just looking with the naked eye.

 

Find out what the person whos tank you liked was doing for lighting in detail and as much info as you can dig up on your ballast and you might be surprised how close to that look you can get with a whole lot less money.

 

QUARANTINE: The single most expensive mistake I have ever made was not following this. All of the above information means squat when your big healthy fast growing sps corals all are eaten alive in a matter of days. Take a closer look at that space you have dedicated for a frag tank and consider your options well. This could be the most important decision you make.

[discretekarma]

Absolutely great information.

 

Money.

I think you need to evaluate your lighting setup before moving on to a new one.

 

a. What brand and spectrum bulbs do you have? Right now I have a set of 10k xm's that are a few (2) months old and a set of 10k venture bulbs that are about 4 months old. I am not sure how old the balasts are but they are rusty and the labels are peeling off. They look old. M58 ballast.

 

b. Who's 180 were you looking at? What brand bulbs did they have? What spectrum?

I've seen several 180's with 250's including mine. I've seen several 180's with 400's as well. Even my XM 10k's look dull. It may be my ballasts but either way I need to buy new ballasts. I'm buying Dschiflier's 400w ballasts, sockets, and reflector's for $200 and I ordered 10k xm 400w bulbs today.

c. What ballast do you have? Old oxidizing m58's.

d. What ballast did they have? Not sure.

If you don't know the age of your bulbs they are garbage. If you got them used and the person you bought them from didn't know, they were garbage before you turned them on.

The balasts and bulbs I have are JamesBuf's. He told me when I bought them that thebulbs needed to be replaced which they have and now I think it's time for the ballasts need to be replaced.

 

I'm not trying to save money on the lights but get what I think looks good. I appreciate everyones concern that I'm waisting my money on 400 watt lights but it only a waste if I think I need them to grow corals. It's not a waste if that is the lighting I think looks good on my tank. You are the first person who has seemed to understand what I mean by this.

 

2x 24" t-5 with ab+ bulbs near the center of the tank may be all the pop you need. This is what I use. These are kinda the new "actinic whites" for me.

Growing SPS is about 10% lighting, 80% water quality and movement and 10% luck.

 

Clear water helps the light penetrate better. Good skimming, UV, Carbon, Ozone are some things that will keep the water clear.

I have a skimmer that may not be the best out there but it seems to work well (ASM G3). I do not have UV so I will need to look in to that and am not sure about carbon or ozone (ORP?)

 

Ca and Alk. Important that they are balance and in range of ca 350-450 and alk 7-14. Now that is a pretty big range if your on top of things, again stability is more important than a single number. I shoot for 400/10 since it is easy to remember. If you don't know these numbers the sticks don't have a chance.

 

My calc is at 350 when I tested it tonight. I plan to test it at different times of the day and at the same time as well and keep a spreadsheet on Excel so I can track what my ranges are or when they rise and fall. I still need to get a Alk test kit. I tried today but the were out.

 

No3 and Po4. Important they are balanced and in the range of 0.0 and 0.0 Coral will live outside this range but growth is totally retarded.

 

No3 is 0. I need a Po4 test kit as well.

 

Water movement. You should see the sand blowing around your tank. Many serious SPS keepers don't use sand. Many do. The successful ones either get used to the look of a controlled sandstorm or pull it all together. A 2" sandbed is doing nothing for water quality if it is stirred well. It might hurt you if not kept clean and moving.

 

I have a mag 24 on a 3/4" sea swirl and 2 x 1200 GPH Koralias. The sand doesn't exactly stir around visibly but there is a good flow so far. Should I just keep adding power heads until I get to that point or is there a better plan?

 

Light. You seem to actually have this one wired. It is more about what you want to see than what the coral needs. I can tell you though a 250w 10k xm bulb looks an awful lot like a 400w 10k xm bulb. There is a little greater intensity, but the differences you are describing you would never be able to tell by just looking with the naked eye.

 

Find out what the person whos tank you liked was doing for lighting in detail and as much info as you can dig up on your ballast and you might be surprised how close to that look you can get with a whole lot less money.

 

QUARANTINE: The single most expensive mistake I have ever made was not following this. All of the above information means squat when your big healthy fast growing sps corals all are eaten alive in a matter of days. Take a closer look at that space you have dedicated for a frag tank and consider your options well. This could be the most important decision you make.

 

I am very limited in space for a frag tank so I am pretty excited that my wife agreed to put in a frag tank. I bought a 15 gallon for now and once the frag tank has been accepted, maybe I can then move in to a better frag tank but for now I am happy with a 15 gallon.

 

 

 

 

I wanted to take a moment to thank everyone for your time so far. I know it take time to look over someone tank setup and figure out what needs to be looked in to and then type it all up. All for a tank nobody has even seen. It really means a lot to me and my family so THANK YOU to everyone.

 

Scott & family

Edited October 23, 2007 by discretekarma

[Gadgets]

Money.

I think you need to evaluate your lighting setup before moving on to a new one.

 

a. What brand and spectrum bulbs do you have?

b. Who's 180 were you looking at? What brand bulbs did they have? What spectrum?

c. What ballast do you have?

d. What ballast did they have?

If you don't know the age of your bulbs they are garbage. If you got them used and the person you bought them from didn't know, they were garbage before you turned them on.

 

2x 24" t-5 with ab+ bulbs near the center of the tank may be all the pop you need. This is what I use. These are kinda the new "actinic whites" for me.

Growing SPS is about 10% lighting, 80% water quality and movement and 10% luck.

 

Clear water helps the light penetrate better. Good skimming, UV, Carbon, Ozone are some things that will keep the water clear.

 

Ca and Alk. Important that they are balance and in range of ca 350-450 and alk 7-14. Now that is a pretty big range if your on top of things, again stability is more important than a single number. I shoot for 400/10 since it is easy to remember. If you don't know these numbers the sticks don't have a chance.

 

No3 and Po4. Important they are balanced and in the range of 0.0 and 0.0 Coral will live outside this range but growth is totally retarded.

 

Water movement. You should see the sand blowing around your tank. Many serious SPS keepers don't use sand. Many do. The successful ones either get used to the look of a controlled sandstorm or pull it all together. A 2" sandbed is doing nothing for water quality if it is stirred well. It might hurt you if not kept clean and moving.

 

Light. You seem to actually have this one wired. It is more about what you want to see than what the coral needs. I can tell you though a 250w 10k xm bulb looks an awful lot like a 400w 10k xm bulb. There is a little greater intensity, but the differences you are describing you would never be able to tell by just looking with the naked eye.

 

Find out what the person whos tank you liked was doing for lighting in detail and as much info as you can dig up on your ballast and you might be surprised how close to that look you can get with a whole lot less money.

 

QUARANTINE: The single most expensive mistake I have ever made was not following this. All of the above information means squat when your big healthy fast growing sps corals all are eaten alive in a matter of days. Take a closer look at that space you have dedicated for a frag tank and consider your options well. This could be the most important decision you make.

 

I AGREE 100%

[discretekarma]

I added the 400w 10k xm bulbs today. The tank looks great and the temp got to a high of just below 80. My two part should be here in a few days.

Edited October 27, 2007 by discretekarma