what's the difference amongst various skimmers

[jnguyen4007]

I've heard of downdraft skimmers and needle wheel impeller skimmers and I think at least one or two more different kind. I was wondering when it comes down to it, are there much difference in term of performance as well as operating cost of using them? In the instance of a downdraft skimmer, does it require a larger pump to run it than a needle wheel skimmer, so the electricity cost be higher to run.

 

James

[Brian Ward]

I've heard of downdraft skimmers and needle wheel impeller skimmers and I think at least one or two more different kind. I was wondering when it comes down to it, are there much difference in term of performance as well as operating cost of using them? In the instance of a downdraft skimmer, does it require a larger pump to run it than a needle wheel skimmer, so the electricity cost be higher to run.

 

James

 

A good place to start for everything you wanted to know about protein skimming:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-06/fm/feature/index.php

[jason the filter freak]

Nice link brian,

 

One question for anyone to answer, on the needle wheel skimmers are they really meaning the impeller has a shorter life or the motor it's self.

[jnguyen4007]

A good place to start for everything you wanted to know about protein skimming:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2002-06/fm/feature/index.php

 

 

Thanks Brian.

[flowerseller]

I've heard of downdraft skimmers and needle wheel impeller skimmers and I think at least one or two more different kind. I was wondering when it comes down to it, are there much difference in term of performance as well as operating cost of using them? In the instance of a downdraft skimmer, does it require a larger pump to run it than a needle wheel skimmer, so the electricity cost be higher to run.

 

James

 

You did not understand my post in the last thread.

You might want to go back and read it.

[jnguyen4007]

You did not understand my post in the last thread.

You might want to go back and read it.

 

 

Chip,

 

I sure did misunderstand it. You scared me with that huge price in utilty bill. My wife would definitely have me hanging by my you know what if our bill increase that much.

 

James

[flowerseller]

I simply love my downdraft skimmer.

Not only for it skimming ability but just as much for the oxygenation value.

I have not seen any skimmer come along during those 15 years that the trade off was worth it vs the expense to do so. Not even if a better skim. The tunze 230 has been the only closest for best vs $ for skimming.

[madmax7774]

Deltec !

Edited October 18, 2007 by madmax7774

[flowerseller]

sorry,

taint so

[dandy7200]

sorry,

taint so

 

 

well at least we agree on that.

[BeltwayBandit]

Chip,

 

I sure did misunderstand it. You scared me with that huge price in utilty bill. My wife would definitely have me hanging by my you know what if our bill increase that much.

 

James

 

 

In terms of power consumption lights are the biggest energy hogs on our tanks. You can't really tell what any individual piece of equipment costs unless you take an ammeter to it and measure its actual draw. When I did that on my tank my lights pulled close to 4 amps, my biggest pump was barely an amp.

[dandy7200]

In terms of power consumption lights are the biggest energy hogs on our tanks. You can't really tell what any individual piece of equipment costs unless you take an ammeter to it and measure its actual draw. When I did that on my tank my lights pulled close to 4 amps, my biggest pump was barely an amp.

 

 

OK, I get 1000lph air draw from 40 watts or 960 watt/day or close enough to call it a kwh. *365= 365kwh*$0.10= $36/year

 

1 amp pump is 120 watts, I'll spare the math since it is triple = $108/year

 

x another 15 years for Chip= $432

 

Watts=money=heat=more money to cool

 

I'm not arguing the performance of downdraft's since I believe they perform rather nicely but energy efficient they are not. Everyone has their own perception of "easy to clean" so I'll just leave that one alone.

 

PS. The above mathematical equation assumes that a downdraft skimmer running at 120w can actually pull 1000lph

[flowerseller]

 

 

well at least we agree on that.

For a conversation point and thread value,

Say I "depreciated" a comparable skimmer @ $100 per year = $1500, which is less than a comparable skimmer to the DD, it would not make sense for me to change over for possibly at best, a tad more skimming ability.

Plus,

There are no moving parts to replace, other than 1 pump, the main pump.

Onn a skimmer with say 3 recirc pumps (pumps that each need maintenence and replacement parts and can cost several hundred $ each, it still needs a feed pump, like a main pump.

At the end of the day, we both still have to clean our skimmers so that's why to me, or anyone else with a good DD, it's still not economically worth it, The benifit very likely will not out weight the quote/unquote skimming difference. Not Yet!

 

Now,

Don't take it like I'm knocking or "talking "smack"" abouts Dan's skimmers, they're just fine and his version appears to be out performing it's Deltec counterpart also in price.

If I didn't have the confidence in it versus value for skimming, I would not have voted to use his skimmer version on the NADC tank.

 

Why blow a big wad of $ when the current wads wacking great with less possible failure points or performance menaces.

Taking all the pumps reguired to run these type skimmers and the percentage amount of my main pump that is devoted to run the DD, I think I might even be ahead in money spent monthy to run the DD.

Plus, I got one pump to clean and maintain or fail.

Yes, I'm stupid and have an iwaki 55 that has sat as back up for those 15 years, just in case.

 

Comments?

[dandy7200]

A skimmer that would replace yours would only require one pump. Replacement cost would be less than your current one pump.

 

You can not depreciate the value of something more than it cost new.

 

Your break even point at $72/year energy savings on a $700 skimmer is less than ten years assuming you already have a skimmer and it will last another 10 years.

 

If you were buying the ETSS600 new today, you would be paying $529 or save $171. Your break even point would be just over 2 years and after that you save $72 a year in operating cost.

 

The current "unpopular skimmer" will depreciate faster then the "popular" one so put yours on a much shorter schedule than mine

[traveller7]

Comments?

Sure :>)

 

Very high on my priorities: Silence

 

I'll buy 5 quiet pumps to keep from running any noisy pump(s), injection, etc.

 

Very high on my priorities: Ease of maintenance

 

I'll be buying the skimmer that lets me clean cup/throat in minutes and pump/pumps every 6 months.

 

The above priorities exceed the logo on the skimmer and the injection method itself as long as the skimmer works :D

 

The current "unpopular skimmer" will depreciate faster then the "popular" one so put yours on a much shorter schedule than mine

Please don't even continue the thoughts of depreciation, it is all worth squat after it is used :>D

[jnguyen4007]

The Deltec skimmer uses a pinwheel design. How often does that pinwheel need to be replace or should be replace and what's a typical costs of a replacement pinwheel?

 

James

[flowerseller]

ok,

 

UNCLE,

 

 

How can I possibly dispute numbers seemingly pulled from 1000lph of air.

I have no way to determine how much air a DD pulls and I made an expansion chamber to add to the 1/2" hole it needs to pull thru.

 

I must admit it, can take several minutes to clean.

and those 4 thumb screws hurt my delicate, yet manly hands each week.

 

But, it is very quiet, and my wife sometimes decorates it during the holidays.

[zoozilla]

ok,

 

UNCLE,

 

 

How can I possibly dispute numbers seemingly pulled from 1000lph of air.

I have no way to determine how much a DD pulls.

I must admit it can take several minutes to clean.

 

But, it is very quiet, and my wife sometimes decorates it during the holidays.

 

Yes, I confirm that this "beast" operates very quietly.

Edited October 19, 2007 by zoozilla

[traveller7]

..... and those 4 thumb screws hurt my delicate, yet manly hands each week.

 

But, it is very quiet, and my wife sometimes decorates it during the holidays.

Drop us a note when you build a spare skimmate cup and your wife lets you run the dirty one through the dishwasher cycle ;>)

[jnguyen4007]

LOL

 

You guys are NUTS

 

[flowerseller]

Drop us a note when you build a spare skimmate cup and your wife lets you run the dirty one through the dishwasher cycle ;>)

The heck with her, I'm positive I wouldn't let myself put that in our dishwasher.

[traveller7]

The heck with her, I'm positive I wouldn't let myself put that in our dishwasher.

Don't tell my wife :D

 

On a serious note, fish/utility room got our old dishwasher for such duty :D