Sump building question - bubble trap

[Origami]

I'm putting together my first system and am building a sump from a new glass 20H tank (that's what'll fit in my stand). So anyway, I've got the sump designed and have incorporated a bubble trap into the design as well. I've even gone so far as to mock up the baffles in cardboard to see how it will all fit together. The baffles will be 1/4" acrylic. Here's my question:

 

I'm planning on putting the bubble trap baffles 1-inch apart. However, I've read that I'm supposed to put aquarium sealant on both sides of each baffle. This leaves me wondering exactly how I'm supposed to get the aquarium sealant down into this 1-inch space when there's another baffle next to the one I'm putting in.

 

I'm hopeful that any of you who've been through this before can enlighten me on the technique you used.

 

Right now, I'm thinking about only sealing one side of each baffle and maybe putting an acrylic block on the back side of the baffle to "pin" it in place. It may, however, be sufficient to only caulk one side of the baffle. I don't know. What's your opinion?

[YBeNormal]

I used small pieces of acrylic glued between the acrylic baffles as spacers/supports and used silicone on the outside of the panel assembly to hold it in place. Works great.

[Antiguan]

I used small pieces of acrylic glued between the acrylic baffles as spacers/supports and used silicone on the outside of the panel assembly to hold it in place. Works great.

 

Here's one suggestion. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthre...mp;pagenumber=1

[Origami]

Bob, that's exactly what I was thinking of doing - "gluing" (using sealant) small acrylic blocking behind the individual baffles (after the first was installed, that is) and locking the baffle down from the accessible side with a bead of sealant around the perimeter.

 

Antiguan, thanks for the link. I looked at it and that approach makes some sense as well. Looks like he used the aluminum bar as a long putty knife to apply the sealant an inch or so at a time.

 

Either way will work, it seems. I just wanted to see if there was any magic method I was overlooking. Thanks for the input!

[dandy7200]

cut the a 12" piece of ro tubing and put it over the tip of the caulk tube.

[Origami]

cut the a 12" piece of ro tubing and put it over the tip of the caulk tube.

 

 

 

Thanks, Dandy. I may just give that a try! The extra rigidity of the ro tubing would certainly make it easier to guide. Maybe this weekend....

[YBeNormal]

I thought about doing that but decided the other way was just as effective and much easier (for me at least).

[Origami]

I thought about doing that but decided the other way was just as effective and much easier (for me at least).

 

 

 

I agree with you, Bob. This is the direction I was headed as well but I may give this approach a try just for purity's sake. I bought a couple of feet of polyethylene tubing at Lowe's today just to see how it feels to try to caulk a decent bead in from 10 inches away into a 1-inch inter-baffle gap. If it doesn't feel like it'll be as clean as I'd like it, I'll probably just go with the blocking approach. At least, I know that, with the blocking approach, I can both maintain the baffle spacing easily enough.

 

 

 

Tom

[Origami]

I built up the sump today. I really didn't like the feel of the polyethylene tubing at the end of the caulking gun. However, I did get another suggestion on RC that I tried.

 

 

 

If your first run a bead of sealant along the line where you intend to mount your baffle, you can press the baffle against this bead, driving it into position and seal the back edge. The sealant is thick enough that you can then just run beads on the forward edge finishing the job. It works pretty well actually. It helps to mark the outside of the tank with a dry-erase marker to help direct you where to put the beads of sealant and to align the baffle.

 

 

 

As for cutting 1/4" plexiglas (which I was worried about), a cheap plywood saw blade mounted on a table saw (or a circular saw) works pretty well, though you will get some melting of the plastic saw dust as you cut. I used a smaller circular saw blade mounted on my 10" table saw and it worked just fine. Also, a plain-old jigsaw with a wood-cutting blade works well for shorter cuts and for notches. I do offer this advice, however: Especially when using a table saw, wear safety glasses and a long-sleeved shirt as there are little bits of hot plastic thrown off the blade while cutting the plexiglas. When it comes to cleanup, cut some scrap wood to help clean out the plastic residue from the saw blade gullets and, after removing the blade, use a razor to knock any plastic buildup off of the blade edge.

Edited September 29, 2007 by Origami2547

[jason the filter freak]

got pics?

[lanman]

Design consideration...

 

If you're going to use a filter sock - make sure the water level isn't higher than the level of the top of the filter sock holder once it's full. (I won't tell you why I thought of this...)

 

bob

[Origami]

Design consideration...

 

If you're going to use a filter sock - make sure the water level isn't higher than the level of the top of the filter sock holder once it's full. (I won't tell you why I thought of this...)

 

bob

 

Bob, I'm not sure just what you mean. You mean don't fully submerge the filter sock? I'll tell you, initially I did just that, but air would get trapped a the top of the sock and would bubble out, making a lot of noise and creating some splashing. I raised the sock some so that the top is above the water line and it seems to allow the air to release in a more controlled fashion. By the way, this filter sock is more like a fine mesh strainer rather than a felt-like sock.

 

Jason, I'm going to attach some pics to this post. I'm sorry that I didn't get pics of the sump before I installed it. I've had to take two pictures to show you what I've done thus far with the setup. You can also see why I had to go with a 20H tank instead of a conventional 20: Because of the way I built the stand (with a center brace), there was no way of getting a conventional 36" 20 gallon into the space I'd built. Live and learn.

 

Edited March 19, 2008 by Origami2547

[Origami]

Second sump picture....

 

It's hard to see it, but I subdivided the first 8-1/2 inch section of the sump into a high-water area of about 3-inches or so (the first compartment). That left about 8-inches in that section for a small footprint skimmer in this, the second compartment. The high water area ensures that my heaters (2x 250W), which are fairly long, can fit submerged. Coincidentally, it also allows me to hang my HOB skimmer (a CPR BakPak 2R) over the side with the intake and pump in the first compartment, and the outlet emptying into the second compartment. Anyway, water cascades over the first wall, dropping about 3 inches into the second compartment. It exits the second compartment by going under another wall, into a bubble trap made up of 4 total walls. Under, over, under, and over... before coming to the refugium section (only about 7-1/2 inches or so long). That left about 6 inches or so for the last compartment, which is where the pump (a Rio 2100) sits to take the water back to the display tank. As you can see by the photos, I decided to try using egg crate to top off the last divider, instead of cutting notches in the plexiglas (I had some egg crate left over, so it seemed like something I could try).

 

Of the 20 gallon capacity, I have about 12 in the sump during normal operations, leaving about 8 gallons of room to protect from overflows, should power fail. The way things are set up, this provides more than enough protection right now (I tried it. Better safe than sorry.).

 

Edited March 19, 2008 by Origami2547

['Ric]

I don't have much of a bubble trap in my set up, so I do get microbubbles blown out of the return. They don't bother me to much in terms of looks, but is there a technical risk or downside to them?

 

'Ric

[Origami]

Eric Borneman doesn't think so. He claims it's one of those lasting myths. See http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-01/eb/index.php

 

 

 

I like the bubble trap because there's greater clarity to be gained. However, it doesn't appear that there's any major risk associated with microbubbles.

[lanman]

Bob, I'm not sure just what you mean. You mean don't fully submerge the filter sock? I'll tell you, initially I did just that, but air would get trapped a the top of the sock and would bubble out, making a lot of noise and creating some splashing. I raised the sock some so that the top is above the water line and it seems to allow the air to release in a more controlled fashion. By the way, this filter sock is more like a fine mesh strainer rather than a felt-like sock.

 

Okay - time to fess up, I guess. I just wasn't thinking - I made the dividers too tall. One result of that was that the filter sock is completely submerged when it's in the filter sock holder.

 

 

So the water is not forced to go through the sock - it just kind of goes into the top of the sock - and wherever else it wants to go. I'm afraid it will only trap heavy debris until I move it higher.

 

bob

[dhogan]

Okay - time to fess up, I guess. I just wasn't thinking - I made the dividers too tall. One result of that was that the filter sock is completely submerged when it's in the filter sock holder.

 

 

So the water is not forced to go through the sock - it just kind of goes into the top of the sock - and wherever else it wants to go. I'm afraid it will only trap heavy debris until I move it higher.

 

bob

I cut out a piece of plywood to raise mine, you may want to try that.

[Origami]

LOL. I see what you mean now. I'm not really using a sock like you have there. Instead, it's more like a paint strainer and it also has a tie at the top, so I can tie the top off against the down tube, trapping debris inside the strainer. So far, it seems to work alright.