Calcium Supplimentation

[bigJPDC]

Hello - I'm a little lost in my researching calcium supplimentation it seems. I think I have a pretty good handle on the whole CaRx vs. 2-part debate, and I was leaning towards setting up one of those periastatic pumps with a calcium solution when I came accross this item:

 

http://cgi.ebay.com/Eheim-Liquidoser-Reef-...bayphotohosting

 

If I know that I need x number of ml's of something like Kent Liquid Calcium per day - could it really just be as simple as loading this thing up and setting it to release that many ml's, one ml at a time over 24 hours? Does anybody have experience with this item?

 

thanks!

jp

[jason the filter freak]

Programable to administer up to 8 pre-measured doses per day

 

do you want something that only adds 8 times a day?

 

Plus in the long run you could hook up a doser to a controller where as you couldn't do that with this thing.

[bigJPDC]

Programable to administer up to 8 pre-measured doses per day

 

do you want something that only adds 8 times a day?

 

Plus in the long run you could hook up a doser to a controller where as you couldn't do that with this thing.

 

???

 

Right now, I manually add calcium once per day, when I remember to, and dosing 1ml every three hours for 24 hours is miles better than 8 mls all at once, once per day. The downside here is that I'd only be able to do 8mls per day, and I'm not sure if that would be under my tank's demand.

 

jp

[rioreef]

JP,

 

I just automated mine with a LiterMeter III. However, I had been manually dosing for two years with never a problem and excellent result. I would dose 65ml of part 1 and part 2. I did this every morning when the pH was naturally low, by doing it at this time I got into a routine of dosing and checking the sump and cleaning the skimmer cup.

[bigJPDC]

Thanks Rio - this is the info I'm looking for.

 

I have alk\Ph under control by using buffer in my TO reservoir, I just need a way to automate the boosting of the calcium, and it sure looks to me like it will cost a ton of money to go with either a calcium reactor or the litermeter with modules.

[rioreef]

I recently got a deal from 'pedalpower' on the LM III, a remote module pump, and the water exchange pump all for $300.

[bigJPDC]

Unreal. I'd be halfway to the 240 at that rate.

This eheim looks like a bust, now that's I finally found a detailed picture of it - the reservoir rotaes slowly around, which I am guessing would be noisy as heck.

[dschflier]

I have 2 peristalic pumps I will be selling shortly. I think I will be selling them for around $50 each if you are interested. I have 2 others I will be keeping and playing around with.

[bigJPDC]

that's more in the ballpark of what I want to spend - is that enough to dose a certain amount of liquid calcium or part-1 per day, or are more components neccessary?

 

thank you!

jp

[dandy7200]

Have you considered kalk as an option?

[bigJPDC]

Dandy my man! I was hoping you'd comment. You should see about buying grayseasaquatics.com, with a redirect to the correct spelling. I type the wrong thing in every time I'm at a new computer.

 

Would a kalk reactor be a better idea than dosing liquid calcium? I don't have room for a calcium reactor and the co2 tank and everything - does the stirrer just wind up inline with the ATO and I just stop dosing buffer in the TO water?

 

jp

[dandy7200]

Dandy my man! I was hoping you'd comment. You should see about buying grayseasaquatics.com, with a redirect to the correct spelling. I type the wrong thing in every time I'm at a new computer.

 

Would a kalk reactor be a better idea than dosing liquid calcium? I don't have room for a calcium reactor and the co2 tank and everything - does the stirrer just wind up inline with the ATO and I just stop dosing buffer in the TO water?

 

jp

 

 

Good idea on the mis-spell domain. Hopefully next year the site will be commerce driven and get a ton more hits and get a decent google page rank. Right now I just have it misspelled in the hidden index page......

 

I use 2 part to correct a level occasionally. There is a simple equation to figure out if kalk will keep up with your calcium/alkalinity demand. Heres how it works:

 

Take a alkalinity reading. Roughly 48 hours later with NO supplementation take another alk reading. Divide by 2. This is your daily usage.

 

You also need to know your total water volume and your evaporation level.

 

Now with all of that information lets visit the chemistry calculator:

 

http://home.comcast.net/~jdieck1/chemcalc.html

 

 

 

At the top enter your total water volume.

Next under the alkalinity column enter 10dkh where it says current alk (be sure to change it from meq/l in the drop down)

Now add your daily alk usage to 10 and enter that where it says desired alk (again in dkh)

Now in the drop down menu of suppliments select Saturated kalkwasser as the product you want to use.

If the product required is less than your daily evaporation level then kalk will work for all of your supplementing needs.

 

Here an generic example without knowing any information about your tank:

 

Water volume 100 gallons

Daily dkh usage is 1dkh

Daily evaporation is roughly 1 gallon.

 

Enter 100 gallons in the top.

Current alk: 10dkh

Desired alk: 11dkh

Product: Limewater

 

Hit calculate

 

Product required: 0.87 US gallons; 3.32 Liters; 112.3 fl oz

 

.87 gallons is less than daily evaporation so kalk will work in the above scenario.

 

HTH

[steveoutlaw]

I'd have to go with Dan on this one. I used to dose 2 part supplements and they were a big pain in the A$$. I got a kalk reactor, hooked it up to my auto top off and have had great growth on my LPS and SPS. Here is a pic of my 92g dosing ONLY kalk:

 

[bigJPDC]

Steve - do I tell you how jealous I am of that red cap every time you post that picture? Simply amazing. I have a piece from dbartco's tank that is doing great.

 

Dandy - excellent advice! Maybe later in the week I will change my ATO to pull from a bucket of fresh water to test my demand. Right now I fill my TO with 4 gals of RODI and 20mls of dKH buffer when it gets down to about 4 gals capacity - and I've been at 8.3ish pH and 9 dKH for about six months. This activity is nothing to me because I only have to do it every 4-5 days, I just wish I could do the same thing with calcium.

 

Yesterday I measured calcium at 380, and I'm going to dose 5mls of liquid calcium for a couple more days and then check to see what the effect has been. Kalk seems like the best long term solution, especially for when I get that 240 someday.

 

Does the Kalk Stirrer you sell come with everything I'd need (besides Mrs. Wages of course) or are there additional parts to purchase?

 

thanks as always,

jp

[dandy7200]

I have a package that includes everything. Pump, reactor, tubing and Mississippi Lime.

 

What are you using for liquid calcium? If you dose 5ml a day every day and we know your starting calcium as well as ending calcium we can calculate your usage based on that to. Whats your total system volume?

[bigJPDC]

Shweet. I am using Kent Liquid Calcium - do you think that two days is enough time to calculate the usage? If so then I'll know tomorrow night. I am guessing that from there I would continue to dose calcium while switching to RODI for TO to calculate the alk usage? I have never tested Mg.

 

The tank is a 65 with a 20H sump - I went through the calculator where you add the sump water and then subtract the rock and sand displacement and came up with - 65 gallons for total system volume, go figure.

 

thanks again,

jp

[bigJPDC]

The results are in, all activities done at 4pm est.

 

Monday - calcium at 380. Dose 5mls of Liquid Calcium.

Tuesday - calcium at 390. Dose 6mls of Liquid Calcium (accidental overpour)

Wednesday - calcium at 400. Dose 5mls of Liquid Calcium.

 

Do we have enough data to know anything or where I should go from here? Holy cow my candy canes are so inflated I think I can tie a lawnchair to them and float over to Rebeccas for the open house. If calcium is rising, am I dosing more than my demand, or will I top off somewhere? My pH is still steady at 8.29, and dKH at 8.

 

I have a 64oz bottle of Liquid Calcium, and my calculations have me able to dose 5mls a day for 374 days - the only downside again being that my ADD would have me insane with that iteration after about 45 of those, but not enough to outweigh the cost of $26 for that bottle vs. calc or kalk equipment.

 

jp

[dandy7200]

If you dose 5ml a day for the next year your calcium will be 1150ppm The goal with calcium supplementation is to only put in what is being used. From the numbers you have given here, you have pretty much ZERO calcium usage in your tank. Water changes alone should be more than enough to supplement your calcium needs. I am guessing you use IO salt which mixes to 380. If you want to keep your Ca level at 400 just add enough Kent to your water change water while it is mixing and your good to go. So lets see a picture of JP's tank......

[bigJPDC]

Too funny, thank you Dandy. See, my wife is wrong, I do need more corals. I have noticed that following the last two water changes, my two milliporas sprout almost overnight, so I thought it was due to calcium being low. I'll dose to 420, stop for a few days and see if it goes down. We'll have to wait on that GSA kalk stirrer for when the 240 goes up.

 

Here are some pics at the 8 month mark, last week.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

all feedback is welcome!

 

jp

[bigJPDC]

AHA! I think I knocked something loose. Here are the readings, taken every day at 4pm:

 

Monday - calcium at 380. Dose 5mls of Liquid Calcium.

Tuesday - calcium at 390. Dose 6mls of Liquid Calcium (accidental overpour)

Wednesday - calcium at 400. Dose 5mls of Liquid Calcium.

 

Thursday - calcium at 380. Dose 5mls of Liquid Calcium.

Friday - calcium at 370. Dose 5mls of Liquid Calcium.

 

Just this week I see coraline growing on my eductor, for the first time. Should I up the calcium dosage to 10 mls?

 

jp

[dandy7200]

Don't up it at all. Keep doing the same thing for another week or two and see what happens.

[bigJPDC]

I don't know if I should be bummed or not. I stopped dosing calcium on the 30th, when I reached 420. I checked yesterday and I am still at 420, although dKH is down to 7, from 9.

 

So I am not using any calcium. That just seems strange. I don't seem to see the same amount of growth I saw before except Doug's monti cap and my gsp, but that could be because I can't get my tank temp under 80. My controller and small fan keep me stuck at 80.5, I might see about getting another fan for the sump.

[flowerseller]

Did you ever move to Kalk?

If you did/do, you might want to consider stopping the 2 part.

 

I experience better chemistry with the ALK higher than your high mark and Ca just south of yours.

 

Should you choose to begin KALK, if kept fresh and handled properly, I find you might experience higher ALK. As a result, you may also find the need to supliment Ca from time to time. This can typically be done with a straight Calcium chloride product.

[Rascal]

I don't seem to see the same amount of growth I saw before except Doug's monti cap and my gsp, but that could be because I can't get my tank temp under 80. My controller and small fan keep me stuck at 80.5, I might see about getting another fan for the sump.

 

Chip and Dan, do you think the temp at 80.5 would be responsible for slowing down growth? I have read lots on "the great temperature debate" in the past so I know there are many conflicting views on this. Just curious what your opinions are on the subject.

[flowerseller]

Chip and Dan, do you think the temp at 80.5 would be responsible for slowing down growth? I have read lots on "the great temperature debate" in the past so I know there are many conflicting views on this. Just curious what your opinions are on the subject.

Speaking from my experiences,

Not one bit.